# Suicide by cop **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [January 31, 2016, 4:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suicide-by-cop/744727 "2016-01-31T04:55:21Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 11\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2016, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suicide-by-cop/744727/21 "2016-02-01T15:43:04Z")
> [@sbunny8](#): > > My understanding is that, in the case of suicide, an insurance company can say that the person who took out the insurance in the first place did so in bad faith, having planned all along to commit suicide, and therefore the contract is void and they refund all the premiums paid. They can do the same thing if you died of cancer, having lied on your application about your health status. But after two years, the policy is incontestable and they have to pay, even if you lied on your application and/or intended to defraud the insurance company. > … > IANAL, but I used to be licensed to sell life insurance. I’ve certainly seen the “2-years delay for a suicide payoff” clause in policies I’ve had. No question there. I’m curious about the serious disease, e.g. cancer, situation. It’s common now that folks live quite a few years with a diagnosis that’s in effect “100% terminal given current med tech, but just not right away.” So imagine person X has serious cancer. As in, barring a miracle or new med tech, they’ll be dead almost for sure in 7 years, if not a lot sooner. After this scary diagnosis they apply for life insurance and lie comprehensively that they have no such disease. Are you saying that if they do live past 2 years then expire shortly thereafter from their cancer that the insurance company grumbles, says, “Yup, you sure fooled us”, and pays off with no further repercussions? That sounds implausible to me; it leaves too much opportunity for scamsters. Or does the industry have enough access to patient medical history that the applicant would be caught in the lie and the insurance never written? So they’d never get to the payout stage? ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2016, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suicide-by-cop/744727/22 "2016-02-01T16:23:43Z")
Exclusion periods for suicide are generally fixed by statute at either one or two years. Life insurers have for the most part moved away from other blanket exclusions; rather, they usually incorporate the cost of what used to be exclusions into the cost of the policy. ---
**Author:** ![sbunny8](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c77e96/32.png) [@sbunny8](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sbunny8)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2016, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suicide-by-cop/744727/23 "2016-02-01T16:25:27Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > So imagine person X has serious cancer. As in, barring a miracle or new med tech, they’ll be dead almost for sure in 7 years, if not a lot sooner. After this scary diagnosis they apply for life insurance and lie comprehensively that they have no such disease. Are you saying that if they do live past 2 years then expire shortly thereafter from their cancer that the insurance company grumbles, says, “Yup, you sure fooled us”, and pays off with no further repercussions? Yep, that’s what I’m saying. BTW, the insurance company doesn’t have to wait until you die. At any time during the first two years, they could contest the policy. Suppose they find out you’re getting chemo treatments and you lied on your application. They could drop you like a hot potato and refund all your premiums as soon as they find out, if it’s within the first two years. After the two years are up, it’s too late. ---
**Author:** ![Machine\_Elf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/82dd89/32.png) [@Machine\_Elf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Machine_Elf)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2016, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suicide-by-cop/744727/24 "2016-02-01T18:39:02Z")
> [@Oly](#): > > “Declared” as in which box would be checked on the Death Certificate, yes. In cases like the one I linked to, i.e. a crystal-clear incident of suicide-by-cop despite the death certificate indicating “death by homicide,” can the insurer refuse to pay a claim on the basis that “the insured obviously intended to die, therefore we’re calling it a suicide”? In other words, can they assert a manner of death other than the one officially recorded on the death certificate? Or would that be grounds for a lawsuit by the listed beneficiary? ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2016, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suicide-by-cop/744727/25 "2016-02-01T18:59:07Z")
Yes. The coroner’s report does not control. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2016, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suicide-by-cop/744727/26 "2016-02-01T19:33:20Z")
> [@Oly](#): > > “Declared” as in which box would be checked on the Death Certificate, yes. A bit of a tangent, but would an assisted suicide/euthanasia be a homicide to a coroner? Technically it’s one person (Dr. Kevorkian) killing another person but generally society calls that an unambiguous suicide. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2016, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suicide-by-cop/744727/27 "2016-02-01T20:32:38Z")
At least one of Kevorkian’s “victims,” Sherry Miller, was [listed](http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/kevorkian/interviews/millerautopsy.html) as a homicide. ---
**Author:** ![sbunny8](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c77e96/32.png) [@sbunny8](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sbunny8)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2016, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suicide-by-cop/744727/28 "2016-02-01T21:23:22Z")
Technically, suicide and homicide are not mutually exclusive. Suicide is a subcategory of homicide. [Legal Dictionary | Law.com](http://dictionary.law.com/Default.aspx?selected=881) So just because it’s labelled a homicide doesn’t mean it can’t also be a suicide. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2016, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suicide-by-cop/744727/29 "2016-02-01T21:27:40Z")
True. But coroners/medical examiners do distinguish between the two. ---
**Author:** ![Oly](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/oly/32/8255_2.png) [@Oly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oly)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2016, 4:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suicide-by-cop/744727/30 "2016-02-02T04:16:31Z")
> [@Machine\_Elf](#): > > In cases like the one I linked to, i.e. a crystal-clear incident of suicide-by-cop despite the death certificate indicating “death by homicide,” can the insurer refuse to pay a claim on the basis that “the insured obviously intended to die, therefore we’re calling it a suicide”? In other words, can they assert a manner of death other than the one officially recorded on the death certificate? Or would that be grounds for a lawsuit by the listed beneficiary? Yes, the insurer can disagree with the manner of death on the DC, and in essence come up with their own manner of death. I’ve been involved in some tense discussions where that was going on. The impression I got was that it’s an up hill battle for the insurers to disagree with the DC, if the beneficiaries challenge them. ---
**Author:** ![Oly](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/oly/32/8255_2.png) [@Oly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oly)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2016, 4:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suicide-by-cop/744727/31 "2016-02-02T04:24:15Z")
> [@Atamasama](#): > > A bit of a tangent, but would an assisted suicide/euthanasia be a homicide to a coroner? Technically it’s one person (Dr. Kevorkian) killing another person but generally society calls that an unambiguous suicide. When Kevorkian pushed the button, that was clearly a homicide. When he set everything up and did everything but push the button, it’s a grey area. Some might say homicide, some suicide, as far as the DC goes. As far as prosecuting him, it seemed, IIRC, that it wasn’t until he pushed that that went forward. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suicide-by-cop/744727.md?page=1)