# Suicide is a human right. **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 29, 2018, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suicide-is-a-human-right/818780 "2018-07-29T21:25:25Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 11\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2018, 3:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suicide-is-a-human-right/818780/101 "2018-08-03T03:41:56Z")
> [@vivalostwages](#): > > Would you really want to wander through the post apocalyptic nuclear wasteland dying slowly and agonizingly of radiation poisoning? What the hell for? For the sake of being alive, which is inherently preferable to not being alive. Furthermore, the given hypothetical speaks only of “the major city near where (I) live” being nuked. It would be naïve of me to assume that the entire world is doomed to toxic death just because the part of it in which I have chosen to settle is. > [@](#): > > “She would have been freed eventually” ? How can you know that? I know that because _that is what happened in the real world in which that person lived._ Are you asserting that the 13th Amendment is fake news? > [@postpic200](#): > > And I also hate to point out that active act of euthanasia is considered humane when an animals is suffering and there is not hope for a cure. As noted, I don’t consider euthanizing animals to be OK either. > [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > If the ultimate justification for your view is that _we agree to it,_ then exactly what happens to it when enough folks mention that they don’t agree? Then our civilization will decline and collapse, because civilization is untenable when its inhabitants do not believe that life is worth living. > [@Crazy\_Canuck](#): > > Dave was a lifelong celibate pedophile. When Dave was diagnosed with a fatal and degenerative mental disease, he committed suicide rather than take the risk that he would commit a sexual offense against a child as the disease forced him into a diminished mental state. Now you have been clear that you don’t believe that Dave avoiding his own suffering is adequate reason for him to have killed himself. What about preventing the potential rape of an innocent child? Does that change your moral calculus at all? I do not support killing people on the basis of crimes that they _might_ commit in the future. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2018, 4:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suicide-is-a-human-right/818780/102 "2018-08-03T04:26:55Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > Then our civilization will decline and collapse, because civilization is untenable when its inhabitants do not believe that life is worth living. I don’t follow. Look, _here I am,_ pointedly not killing myself; you’ve been interacting with me for days, during which I’ve clearly kept _right on living_. Why, it’s as if I believe my life is worth living! I mean, I’m willing to kill myself _under some circumstances_; but, since that hasn’t yet happened, I’m reserving the right to kill myself _then_ even while carrying on exactly as if my life is worth living _now_. How do you explain that? Do you believe my situation is untenable? If so, how have I carried on like this for decades? Do you believe that I, and a group of folks who _likewise_ act as their lives are worth living, couldn’t possibly carry on in this fashion because each one figures that, at some future date, they may stop feeling that way? I just don’t see how you get to that conclusion. Sure, if each of us actively wanted to kill ourselves _right now,_ I see how it’d be “untenable”; but I see no tenability issue if each of us happens to think, “well, my life is currently worth living — but if I’m ever scant hours away from dying, and I’ll be in tremendous pain for those hours, well, then, at _that_ point, I don’t think it’d be worth living in agony.” ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2018, 5:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suicide-is-a-human-right/818780/103 "2018-08-03T05:12:14Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > I know that because _that is what happened in the real world in which that person lived._ Are you asserting that the 13th Amendment is fake news? You realize that quite a few generations of slaves were born, lived, worked and died as slaves before that happened, yeah ? ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2018, 5:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suicide-is-a-human-right/818780/104 "2018-08-03T05:53:20Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > You realize that quite a few generations of slaves were born, lived, worked and died as slaves before that happened, yeah ? The period of 1841-1853 is slightly less than “a few generations” away from 1865. > [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > Do you believe my situation is untenable? Yes. Once suicide becomes normalized, the window of circumstances under which it is acceptable grow wider and wider. We’ve already seen, as documented in this thread, that _depression_ is considered acceptable grounds for suicide. From there it’s only a handful of generations from “It’s OK if you want to end it now” to “You should definitely consider suicide at this point” to “Why are you still alive, don’t you realize how selfish you’re being” to “the board has decided your continued existence is no longer profitable, please relax, let the man strap you down, this’ll all be over soon”. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2018, 6:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suicide-is-a-human-right/818780/105 "2018-08-03T06:31:59Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > The period of 1841-1853 is slightly less than “a few generations” away from 1865. Because that story was somehow exclusive to the years 1841-1853 and couldn’t \*possibly \*have taken place in 1780. Slaves were only raped, beaten, mutilated and/or separated from their loved ones during those specific 12 years :rolleyes:. Plus obviously on that glorious day of 1865 where slaves were freed (only not really) the woman hasn’t been raped, hasn’t been beaten, hasn’t been treated worse than an animal all her life any more. It’s all sunshine and daisies henceforth, no traumatic baggage whatsoever. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2018, 10:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suicide-is-a-human-right/818780/106 "2018-08-03T10:58:11Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > Yes. Once suicide becomes normalized, the window of circumstances under which it is acceptable grow wider and wider. We’ve already seen, as documented in this thread, that _depression_ is considered acceptable grounds for suicide. > > From there it’s only a handful of generations from “It’s OK if you want to end it now” to “You should definitely consider suicide at this point” to “Why are you still alive, don’t you realize how selfish you’re being” to “the board has decided your continued existence is no longer profitable, please relax, let the man strap you down, this’ll all be over soon”. Yes, well, that’s your, uh, claim. So long as we’re just, y’know, putting claims out there, try this: if a guy thinks _he_ gets to say when his life is no longer worth living, that can be the beginning and the end of the discussion; but if we normalize the idea that it’s _not_ his call, that it’s a call to be made by _some other person or group,_ then from there it’s only a handful of generations from “you don’t get to choose whether you live or die” straight over to “you don’t get to choose whether you live or die; now die.” Your parade of horribles is a possible tragedy; but so is the reverse, right? ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2018, 1:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suicide-is-a-human-right/818780/107 "2018-08-04T01:38:56Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > As noted, I don’t consider euthanizing animals to be OK either. Which to me is seriously extreme, bordering on animal abuse. And if you don’t support euthanizing animals in pain, what about killing animals for meat? Are you a vegetarian? You really seem to have a near phobia of death. Almost like Lord Voldemort. Death is a part of life – everyone is going to die, sooner or later. ---
**Author:** ![nachtmusick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ac91a4/32.png) [@nachtmusick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nachtmusick)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2018, 11:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suicide-is-a-human-right/818780/108 "2018-08-05T11:38:42Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > Once suicide becomes normalized, the window of circumstances under which it is acceptable grow wider and wider. We’ve already seen, as documented in this thread, that _depression_ is considered acceptable grounds for suicide. “Once suicide becomes normalized” Seriously? ---
**Author:** ![Ozzi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/35a633/32.png) [@Ozzi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ozzi)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2018, 3:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suicide-is-a-human-right/818780/109 "2018-08-06T03:45:32Z")
I would say that it just depends on the viewpoint of a person. You could be a pessimist/realist and realize that life is cruel, or you can be the flipside and think that life is full of goodness/optimism. These two types of people will never see eye to eye, but the optimism is inherently “good,” thus resulting in suicide being “bad.” In my opinion, if someone chooses to die, so let them be- but I think that people should always reach out and offer some sort of support, help, and sympathy. If suicide is ever “accepted” into society, I hope we then won’t devalue human life as a result of it. ---
**Author:** ![sisu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/df705f/32.png) [@sisu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sisu)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2018, 5:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suicide-is-a-human-right/818780/110 "2018-08-06T05:32:36Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > The period of 1841-1853 is slightly less than “a few generations” away from 1865. > > Yes. Once suicide becomes normalized, the window of circumstances under which it is acceptable grow wider and wider. We’ve already seen, as documented in this thread, that _depression_ is considered acceptable grounds for suicide. > > From there it’s only a handful of generations from “It’s OK if you want to end it now” to “You should definitely consider suicide at this point” to “Why are you still alive, don’t you realize how selfish you’re being” to “the board has decided your continued existence is no longer profitable, please relax, let the man strap you down, this’ll all be over soon”. The slippery slope argument is lazy, the right to end your life is inherent in the idea that no one owns you. What I choose to do with me is mine and mine alone to determine. I am uncomfortable with depression being used but although I have suffered depression for a large amount of my life I have not gone to the deep dark places some people have gone. If I am in respite care I will be asking to be dosed up on opiates and refuse all other treatments, this is quite legal and will still achieve the aim of euthanasia. ---
**Author:** ![Crazy\_Canuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crazy_canuck/32/5282_2.png) [@Crazy\_Canuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crazy_Canuck)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2018, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suicide-is-a-human-right/818780/111 "2018-08-07T18:21:46Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > For the sake of being alive, which is inherently preferable to not being alive. I honestly hope you never find out how wrong that statement is. Have you ever seen someone being tortured? I have, and the memories of that smell and those screams gave me nightmares that never went away. Your blind insistence that life is preferable to death is delusional, and I strongly recommend getting professional help for it. > [@Smapti](#): > > I do not support killing people on the basis of crimes that they _might_ commit in the future. So you are so fucking terrified of death that you would rather a child be raped than someone kill themselves. That says everything anyone needs to know about you, and we won’t be interacting outside the pit again. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suicide-is-a-human-right/818780.md?page=5)