Is all pain equal? Should emotional pain trump physical pain coupled with emotional pain? It is extremely easy to turn your argument around and say “You shouldn’t oppose such a device just because doing so would alleviate your emotional pain. What about the physical and emotional pain of the other person your actions will directly cause if you are successful?”
I wonder how many of the respondents here have had relatives diagnosed with dementia or a terminal illness, and how long those relatives lived with it. My father-in-law was diagnosed with Alzheimer’s about three years ago, after knowing himself that he was having memory issues. Those issues have progressed to him not having any idea who his grown children are (he assumes that they work for the assisted living center when they visit him in his apartment), and he often thinks that his wife, to whom he’s been married for close to 70 years, is his sister or some other female relative. He grew up in the Depression and always appreciated a good value, and I think he’d be horrified, were he granted an hour of lucidity and saw how many tens of thousands of dollars has been spent on medical care (which has been largely ineffectual, and it’s not like someone eventually recovers from Alzheimer’s) for him in the last three years, he’d be absolutely enraged. His Catholic faith would keep him from doing anything, but I am absolutely certain that the guy who’d calculate a restaurant tip to the penny would spend the rest of his hour of lucidity fuming about all of the money going down the drain. Thanks largely to his thrifty lifestyle, he and his wife are highly unlikely to run out of money to pay for their care, but I don’t think he’d be happy with what’s happening to his life savings (for their part, all of his children are comfortable financially, and his life savings going to a for-profit assisted living center rather than back to the family isn’t really an issue to them).
Three of my four grandparents had Alzheimer’s (another died relatively early of heart disease), and I have absolutely no intention of putting my family through that – especially if there’s something quick and painless like the suicide pods (I’m of the view that it does matter how you take yourself out, and the less messy, the better for not only the family, but for anyone else who might have to clean up).
My wife and I aren’t fettered by faith, and we’ve both decided that if/when we develop serious issues with dementia or another terminal illness, we’ll show ourselves out after exploring all other reasonable options. I know that a suicide can cause a ton of psychological pain for survivors, but there’s also a lot of psychological pain caused by watching someone irretrievably lose their mind.
That whole post was very well said, but I’m highlighting this for emphasis.
And I also want to refer back to my post and how I watched my best friend who had NOT lost his mind, as he lost control of his body while his illness progressed. Speaking just for myself, I fear that situation more than losing my mind. Besides my buddy, I’ve known someone with ALS and I can assure you I won’t die that way. While I take the point that one’s family and friends can be hurt by suicide, having seen what I’ve seen, I would never deny someone their choice of exit when the grim future is a known certainty.
And nobody will deny it to me. If I’m ever faced with a truly bad situation, I’m finding a way. I’d rather it not be messy and inconvenience others, so the pod seems like a good option.
Is the survivor’s pain so great that they feel compelled to end their lives? If not, it’s probably not as bad as what the dead guy was going through.
Really love all the NOBODY IS ALLOWED TO CAUSE ME PAIN BY COMMITTING SUICIDE energy from people who won’t acknowledge that forcing people who don’t want to be alive any more because life is unending pain to them is them compounding someone else’s pain. Basically, what is being said is that ONLY MY PAIN IS IMPORTANT AND I DON’T CARE HOW I TORTURE YOU SO LONG AS I FEEL BETTER THIS WAY. Real nice. So compassionate.
My father’s mother died of Alzheimer’s. My father died (more or less) of Alheimer’s. In the event I am diagnosed with Alzheimer’s, I won’t wait around to become a drooling vegetable. I would tidy up my affairs, do my best to make sure my material possessions go to the right folks, and find a foolproof method of suicide.
I think there are really two different discussions here. People who want to commit suicide due to depression are an entirely different issue IMO from people who have some incurable physical disease and just want to fast forward through the last few months of pain and suffering. I also agree that Alzheimer’s is a completely legitimate reason to take yourself out while you still have the wits to do so.
As a long time sufferer of chronic depression, I’m not really seeing the difference. Depression is sometimes treatable (like diabetes) but there is no cure. Both Alzheimer’s and depression are conditions of the brain.
The nitrogen method is pretty much perfect–if you want to have a little more fun with it, use nitrous oxide. Huffers sometimes inadvertently check out due to forgetting they should take a few breaths of normal room air once in a while.
Depression is potentially treatable, and even if untreated tends to wax and wane in severity, rather than always getting progressively and inevitably worse. I’m not saying that intractable depression can never be a valid reason for suicide, but I think the safeguards in place need to be much, much higher than for people with progressive, incurable diseases.
Emotional hurt - that it’s my life. I shouldn’t be forced to not break up with someone because it hurts the other person. I shouldn’t be forced to maintain contact with a relative I don’t like because it hurts the other person. And I shouldn’t be forced to stay alive because choosing otherwise hurts the other person.
Suicide is not (generally) targeting or deliberately hurting another. It’s someone making a decision they think is best for them, and that has the unfortunate side effect of causing emotional pain to others. We don’t outlaw any other decision for oneself based on the emotional pain it causes others, so far as I can think of.
Yep.
People refuse cancer treatment or to be put onto the UNOS list for transplants because they reckon the cure is worse than the natural course of the disease. People have bodily autonomy and get to decide for themselves what they are or aren’t willing to go through vs the natural result of their decision. Others may not LIKE it that they “refuse to fight” but tough titty.
Did you read the story?
That’s their OTHER purpose.
One wonders how the decomposition process would work with the oxygen reduced to 1%.
Most of the people who are approved for physician-assisted suicide in Oregon, where it is legal, end up not going through with it. About half of them never fill the prescriptions, for any number of reasons, and out of the ones who do, about half don’t use them. The most common reason is because they died naturally prior to the chosen date and time, but some of them get there and say, “It’s not time for me just yet.”
This PBS program, about a Swiss program called Dignitas, has aired many times in my area. It’s worth watching regardless of one’s opinion on the subject.
Yes, I concur.
Maybe a 48 hour waiting period, unless you have a Doctors letter?
I’ve heard of children as young as six years old being allowed to make a decision like this for themselves; usually, the child says something like “I don’t want to take any more treatments, because they aren’t working” and not infrequently, that child was right and the parents were in denial and insisting on painful procedures that were futile.
Shortly after I graduated from college in 1994, this book came out and I went to hear the author speak. Jack Kevorkian and his “suicide machine” was a big news story at the time, and I remember someone asking in the Q&A if he’d ever had any patients inquire about assisted suicide. He said that while he’d definitely had patients who committed suicide, he’d never had one ask about it, and terminally ill people who are suicidal almost invariably no longer are if their pain, depression, and nausea are under control.
Dr. Abraham Verghese was an infectious disease specialist in the early days of AIDS, in an Appalachian community that didn’t think anyone was gay or used IV drugs, and he has written several other books in the meantime, both fiction and non-fiction.
I was actually thinking Soylent Green.
At any rate, I don’t see a real issue with this, though I can see there is a lot of people who do. I think adult humans should be able to make this sort of choice on their own, especially but not exclusively if they are in very painful, terminal illness stages with no hope of recovery and in constant pain.
I think that if I had a painful terminal condition, it would be comforting to know that I had an exit plan, even if I never felt the need to use it.
I have never heard of this. Was the child allowed to do this of her/his own volition, or was parental consent required?
I was thinking more along the lines of this.
I like the idea of a doctor’s note…at least you could make sure the person tried anti depressants, talk therapy, or gotten a second opinion (supposing the person wanted to die before the physical ailment of cancer or whatever gets too painful). I also think there should be someone helping the person see what kind of problems they may be leaving for others. For instance, what if he thinks the life insurance will pay off but there’s a clause in there and it won’t? He thinks he’s making the people he leaves behind rich but he’s making them paupers.
I believe women have the right to determine what happens to their bodies and if they so choose, get an abortion. I think everyone has the right to determine whether they live or die. Still, it should be an informed choice.
I wonder if “suicide by cop,” people stepping in front of a train, or otherwise involving other people to accomplish the task would decline.