# Suicide rates + Montana **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [June 30, 2011, 2:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suicide-rates-montana/587346 "2011-06-30T02:30:54Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![blood63](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/97f17d/32.png) [@blood63](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blood63)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2011, 2:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suicide-rates-montana/587346/1 "2011-06-30T02:30:54Z")
What is going on in Montana? Why does this state have the highest suicide rate in the U.S.A.? ---
**Author:** ![Jaledin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Jaledin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jaledin)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2011, 2:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suicide-rates-montana/587346/2 "2011-06-30T02:34:05Z")
Ever been to Missoula? It’s like the Berkeley of the Rockies, Colorado excepted – lots of art kids. Plus it’s cold as shit in winter all throughout the state. Plus there’s bears. Plus there ain’t much play for a little farm boy in them big cities like Bozeman and Missoula and Butte. They all be studying dance and getting on for a hayride once in August. I’d bet not half those suicides come from eastern MT, though – too much work to be done out there. ---
**Author:** ![Derleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Derleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Derleth)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2011, 2:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suicide-rates-montana/587346/3 "2011-06-30T02:36:42Z")
> [@blood63](#): > > What is going on in Montana? Not very much, which is part of the problem. About two-thirds of Montana by land area is eastern Montana, which is big, empty, and only thinly-populated. You can go hours at highway speed (80 mph, in practice) before you get to another town, or at least another town that isn’t a few houses clustered around a gas station. This means that there are a lot of Montanans living hours from a social support system or, hell, just people their own age to talk to. Combine that with high drinking rates, a meth problem, and gambling and you have a lot of dangerous influences in one state. ---
**Author:** ![MPB\_in\_Salt\_Lake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c0e974/32.png) [@MPB\_in\_Salt\_Lake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MPB_in_Salt_Lake)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2011, 2:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suicide-rates-montana/587346/4 "2011-06-30T02:39:41Z")
Culture of the West. Rugged individualism, to ask others for help shows weakness of character, high alcohol consumption, easy availability of firearms, physical isolation between houses and other towns, harsh climate, tough economic times, especially for people in agriculture… ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2011, 3:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suicide-rates-montana/587346/5 "2011-06-30T03:24:51Z")
Where are you getting your statistics from? What’s the rate, and how does it compare with the national average, or with other rural Western states? ---
**Author:** ![GreasyJack](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/df705f/32.png) [@GreasyJack](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreasyJack)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2011, 4:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suicide-rates-montana/587346/6 "2011-06-30T04:08:54Z")
> [@Jaledin](#): > > Ever been to Missoula? It’s like the Berkeley of the Rockies, Colorado excepted – lots of art kids. Plus it’s cold as shit in winter all throughout the state. Plus there’s bears. Plus there ain’t much play for a little farm boy in them big cities like Bozeman and Missoula and Butte. They all be studying dance and getting on for a hayride once in August. I’d bet not half those suicides come from eastern MT, though – too much work to be done out there. Actually, you’re completely wrong. The suicide rate in the cities is still somewhat more than the national average, but nothing like the epidemic levels in some rural counties, _especially_ out east. And that’s really the crux of the issue-- suicide levels are much higher in areas with lots of rural poverty. That the states with the highest percentage of people living in rural areas or small towns also have the highest suicide rates is hardly surprising. You can have all sorts of long discussions about why rural suicide rates are so high, but the immediate answer to why Montana, Idaho, Alaska, Wyoming, etc have such high suicide rates is that they have relatively high proportions of rural residents. ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2011, 2:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suicide-rates-montana/587346/7 "2011-06-30T14:15:27Z")
> [@blood63](#): > > What is going on in Montana? Why does this state have the highest suicide rate in the U.S.A.? I don’t know where your stats are from, but in 2004 the highest rate of suicide was in Alaska at 23.6/100,000 followed by Montana at 18.9/100,000. Alaska has always had a high rate: isolation, darkness, alcohol/drug use are all factors, particularly in remote Native villages. ---
**Author:** ![anson2995](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c77e96/32.png) [@anson2995](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/anson2995)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2011, 2:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suicide-rates-montana/587346/8 "2011-06-30T14:28:11Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Where are you getting your statistics from? What’s the rate, and how does it compare with the national average, or with other rural Western states? I’ll answer for the OP. [Here’s one dataset](http://www.suicide.org/suicide-statistics.html#2005). It seems like they have been at or near the top for years. Here’s a sampling of news articles from [2008](http://helenair.com/news/state-and-regional/article_15b91e57-8d1a-5059-bdf0-179b4dfc0161.html), [2009](http://www.kulr8.com/news/local/44844282.html), and [2010](http://www.mtstandard.com/news/local/article_d8c9808b-5159-5717-a685-c443601192f5.html). The states that have been at or near the top tend to be rural western states -like Montana, Alaska, Nevada, Montana. I’ll leave the analysis to others… ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2011, 2:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suicide-rates-montana/587346/9 "2011-06-30T14:40:08Z")
> [@anson2995](#): > > I’ll answer for the OP. [Here’s one dataset](http://www.suicide.org/suicide-statistics.html#2005). It seems like they have been at or near the top for years. Here’s a sampling of news articles from [2008](http://helenair.com/news/state-and-regional/article_15b91e57-8d1a-5059-bdf0-179b4dfc0161.html), [2009](http://www.kulr8.com/news/local/44844282.html), and [2010](http://www.mtstandard.com/news/local/article_d8c9808b-5159-5717-a685-c443601192f5.html). > > The states that have been at or near the top tend to be rural western states -like Montana, Alaska, Nevada, Montana. > > I’ll leave the analysis to others… That table is from 2005. Interesting that Alaska dropped to #3 in just one year, but I guess these numbers fluctuate quite dramatically. ---
**Author:** ![dolphinboy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dolphinboy/32/330_2.png) [@dolphinboy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dolphinboy)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2011, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suicide-rates-montana/587346/10 "2011-06-30T14:43:03Z")
I live in western Montana and the winters are tough, but not as tough as Minnesota can be, so I don’t think that alone explains it. I think it is because Montana is sparsely populated, which is great if you are Ted Kaczynski, but not so great is you are a teenager. Drugs are a problem here and guns are readily available. Want to find a good paying job? You will have to leave the state to do that. So it’s a mix of not many people, easy access to drugs and guns, a generally poor economic situation, especially for farmers and ranchers, and not much of a support system for kids that need help. I would expect Wyoming and the Dakotas to be nearly as bad… ---
**Author:** ![Max\_Torque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e9bcb4/32.png) [@Max\_Torque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_Torque)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2011, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suicide-rates-montana/587346/11 "2011-06-30T14:56:58Z")
Montana also apparently has a major meth problem. In 2005, they were ranked fifth in the nation for meth abuse ([cite](http://www.montanameth.org/About_Us/results.php)). Thanks to the work of the folks at the Montana Meth Project, they’ve dropped to #39. Their [ads](http://www.montanameth.org/View_Ads/index.php) are scary as hell, so I can see them being effective. ---
**Author:** ![Profound\_Gibberish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/65b543/32.png) [@Profound\_Gibberish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Profound_Gibberish)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2011, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suicide-rates-montana/587346/12 "2011-06-30T15:22:50Z")
Makes me wonder what the suicide rate was when the west was first settled. Isolation, alcohol, guns and little money was pretty much the rule. And no therapists to discuss your inner cowboy issues with. ---
**Author:** ![RandMcnally](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/b782af/32.png) [@RandMcnally](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RandMcnally)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2011, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suicide-rates-montana/587346/13 "2011-06-30T15:40:12Z")
I was born and raised in California so I forget how sparsely populated some of the other states are. One thing that blew my mind was in, I believe it was 06, San Diego was on fire, more people were evacuated in one city than the entire population was Montana. ---
**Author:** ![dolphinboy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dolphinboy/32/330_2.png) [@dolphinboy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dolphinboy)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2011, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suicide-rates-montana/587346/14 "2011-06-30T16:14:19Z")
I think where there are strong family ties people do okay. There are a lot of churches here in Montana, so religion plays a big part in many people’s lives. But when you are isolated you are really isolated. There are less than a million people living in a state only slightly smaller than California, and towns are few and far between. You can drive for hours here without seeing another human being. Some people like this solitude, but I can see how it could drive someone crazy. ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2011, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suicide-rates-montana/587346/15 "2011-06-30T16:22:49Z")
> [@dolphinboy](#): > > I think where there are strong family ties people do okay. There are a lot of churches here in Montana, so religion plays a big part in many people’s lives. But when you are isolated you are really isolated. There are less than a million people living in a state only slightly smaller than California, and towns are few and far between. You can drive for hours here without seeing another human being. Some people like this solitude, but I can see how it could drive someone crazy. It’s even worse in Alaska, with a population of about 700,000 in an area of about 660,000 square miles. Anchorage has a population of about 290,000, but by the time you get to the number four town, you’re down to about 8,000, and it’s an island. ---
**Author:** ![dolphinboy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dolphinboy/32/330_2.png) [@dolphinboy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dolphinboy)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2011, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suicide-rates-montana/587346/16 "2011-06-30T16:40:12Z")
> [@Chefguy](#): > > It’s even worse in Alaska, with a population of about 700,000 in an area of about 660,000 square miles. Anchorage has a population of about 290,000, but by the time you get to the number four town, you’re down to about 8,000, and it’s an island. And like Alaska, Montana is very dependent on natural resources and tourism to keep its economy going. When the housing market crashed most of the lumber mills closed down, throwing a lot of people out of work. When gas approaches $4 a gallon tourists stop making the long trek up here. It’s been a tough few years for us, but remarkably the state has managed to remain solvent throughout the recession. You can chalk that up to the independent and frugal nature of most Montanans… ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2011, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suicide-rates-montana/587346/17 "2011-06-30T16:46:18Z")
> [@Chefguy](#): > > That table is from 2005. Interesting that Alaska dropped to #3 in just one year, but I guess these numbers fluctuate quite dramatically. With such low populations, just a few people \*\*not \*\*killing themselves can make a big difference in the rankings. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2011, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suicide-rates-montana/587346/18 "2011-06-30T18:05:49Z")
> [@](#): > > Makes me wonder what the suicide rate was when the west was first settled. Isolation, alcohol, guns and little money was pretty much the rule. And no therapists to discuss your inner cowboy issues with. I’d expect it to have been much lower in the early years, since the settlers would have been self-selected. Some people _like_ isolation, and by and large, those people would make up the early settlers. It’d only be in later generations that you’d get folks born into isolation who don’t like it. ---
**Author:** ![anson2995](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c77e96/32.png) [@anson2995](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/anson2995)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2011, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suicide-rates-montana/587346/19 "2011-06-30T18:13:22Z")
> [@dolphinboy](#): > > I think where there are strong family ties people do okay. There are a lot of churches here in Montana, so religion plays a big part in many people’s lives. But when you are isolated you are really isolated. There are less than a million people living in a state only slightly smaller than California, and towns are few and far between. You can drive for hours here without seeing another human being. Some people like this solitude, but I can see how it could drive someone crazy. More likely, I think, is the idea that the remoteness and isolation makes it more difficult for people to get appropriate mental health services. ---
**Author:** ![SandyHook](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dec6dc/32.png) [@SandyHook](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SandyHook)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2011, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suicide-rates-montana/587346/20 "2011-06-30T18:21:29Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > I’d expect it to have been much lower in the early years, since the settlers would have been self-selected. Some people _like_ isolation, and by and large, those people would make up the early settlers. It’d only be in later generations that you’d get folks born into isolation who don’t like it. I’ m with **Chronos** here. Also, for the early settlers they would have been far too busy to have had much time to sit around dwelling on their lives. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suicide-rates-montana/587346.md?page=2)