# Suicide rates + Montana **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [June 30, 2011, 2:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suicide-rates-montana/587346 "2011-06-30T02:30:54Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 13\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2011, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suicide-rates-montana/587346/21 "2011-06-30T19:49:34Z")
> [@dolphinboy](#): > > And like Alaska, Montana is very dependent on natural resources and tourism to keep its economy going. When the housing market crashed most of the lumber mills closed down, throwing a lot of people out of work. When gas approaches $4 a gallon tourists stop making the long trek up here. It’s been a tough few years for us, but remarkably the state has managed to remain solvent throughout the recession. You can chalk that up to the independent and frugal nature of most Montanans… That’s a shame, as Montana has a lot to offer in the way of tourism. The Flathead Lake area alone is worth the trip. ---
**Author:** ![GreasyJack](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/df705f/32.png) [@GreasyJack](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreasyJack)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2011, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suicide-rates-montana/587346/22 "2011-06-30T19:52:30Z")
> [@Max\_Torque](#): > > Montana also apparently has a major meth problem. In 2005, they were ranked fifth in the nation for meth abuse ([cite](http://www.montanameth.org/About_Us/results.php)). Thanks to the work of the folks at the Montana Meth Project, they’ve dropped to #39. > > Their [ads](http://www.montanameth.org/View_Ads/index.php) are scary as hell, so I can see them being effective. Slight tangent, but there’s some pretty serious questions about the actual effectiveness of the gruesome Meth Project ads. See here: [http://www.reuters.com/article/2008/12/19/us-anti-meth-idUSTRE4BI5S620081219](http://www.reuters.com/article/2008/12/19/us-anti-meth-idUSTRE4BI5S620081219) and here: [http://www.springerlink.com/content/t3575m0w40653lh7](http://www.springerlink.com/content/t3575m0w40653lh7) The thing is that the ads completely fly in the face of research from the 60’s through 80’s that showed that hyperbolic anti-drug scare tactics don’t work because they just make the actual at-risk teenagers distrust the information being given to them. Indeed, there are other statistics (collected by the Project, but conveniently ignored when touting their own success) that seem to show that the Meth Project did exactly that. Overall meth use has been declining, but this is a trend that dates back to the 90’s AND the Meth Project coincided with a comprehensive program to prevent the sale of meth ingredients. Honestly, I think the only thing different about the Meth Project versus any other anti-drug campaign is that it has private backers, who have spent enormous amounts of effort convincing everyone what a success the project has been when it is not at all clear that this is the case. ---
**Author:** ![GreasyJack](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/df705f/32.png) [@GreasyJack](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreasyJack)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2011, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suicide-rates-montana/587346/23 "2011-06-30T20:01:59Z")
> [@dolphinboy](#): > > You can chalk that up to the independent and frugal nature of most Montanans… You can chalk that up to the Bakken Shale and Powder River Basin coal. Those high energy prices that keep the tourists away are pure money for eastern Montana and money right into the state government’s coffers in the form of excises. ---
**Author:** ![dolphinboy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dolphinboy/32/330_2.png) [@dolphinboy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dolphinboy)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2011, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suicide-rates-montana/587346/24 "2011-06-30T22:33:39Z")
> [@Chefguy](#): > > That’s a shame, as Montana has a lot to offer in the way of tourism. The Flathead Lake area alone is worth the trip. That’s where I live… ---
**Author:** ![dolphinboy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dolphinboy/32/330_2.png) [@dolphinboy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dolphinboy)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2011, 10:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suicide-rates-montana/587346/25 "2011-06-30T22:34:44Z")
> [@GreasyJack](#): > > You can chalk that up to the Bakken Shale and Powder River Basin coal. Those high energy prices that keep the tourists away are pure money for eastern Montana and money right into the state government’s coffers in the form of excises. True enough… ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2011, 11:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suicide-rates-montana/587346/26 "2011-06-30T23:08:36Z")
> [@dolphinboy](#): > > That’s where I live… Nice. We stayed in an RV park there for about a week, and went up to Glacier for a visit. Spent about three weeks total in the state, particularly up along the Missouri Breaks. ---
**Author:** ![dolphinboy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dolphinboy/32/330_2.png) [@dolphinboy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dolphinboy)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2011, 1:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suicide-rates-montana/587346/27 "2011-07-01T01:20:37Z")
> [@Chefguy](#): > > Nice. We stayed in an RV park there for about a week, and went up to Glacier for a visit. Spent about three weeks total in the state, particularly up along the Missouri Breaks. Glad you enjoyed yourself Chefguy. As you can imagine, there are pluses and minuses to living anywhere. The winters are long and snowy, but the summers are amazing. I grew up in northern California and when we looked at retiring we searched all of the states west of the Mississippi and settled on the Flathead Valley. We have two quarter horses now and I can’t imagine living anywhere else. ---
**Author:** ![digs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/digs/32/14889_2.png) [@digs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/digs)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2011, 2:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suicide-rates-montana/587346/28 "2011-07-01T02:08:17Z")
> [@dbx820](#): > > Makes me wonder what the suicide rate was when the west was first settled. Isolation, alcohol, guns and little money was pretty much the rule. And no therapists to discuss your inner cowboy issues with. I’m thinkin’ I might have a new shingle to hang out: **Dr. J. Diggerston Hackelforth PhD. FRONTIER THERAPIST** Inner Cowboy Issues Addressed ---
**Author:** ![Number](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/number/32/242_2.png) [@Number](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Number)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2011, 4:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suicide-rates-montana/587346/29 "2011-07-01T04:30:36Z")
Yeah, [that boy needs therapy](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qLrnkK2YEcE). ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2011, 5:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suicide-rates-montana/587346/30 "2011-07-01T05:11:23Z")
> [@dolphinboy](#): > > So it’s a mix of not many people, easy access to drugs and guns, a generally poor economic situation, especially for farmers and ranchers, and not much of a support system for kids that need help. And of those you can’t do very much about the not many people, the economy, or the access to drugs. You can fund support networks and outreach for emotionally troubled youth. And you can both pass child access prevention (CAP) laws and encourage a variety of sources, including rural pediatricians, to promote safer storage of guns. [CAP laws](http://www.scienceblog.com/community/older/2004/5/20044045.shtml) have been associated with a decrease in teen suicide rates. But there is a backlash against them. And pediatricians asking about guns is now illegal in one state. ---
**Author:** ![Kevbo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/e47774/32.png) [@Kevbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kevbo)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2011, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suicide-rates-montana/587346/32 "2011-07-01T16:38:47Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > I’d expect it to have been much lower in the early years, since the settlers would have been self-selected. Some people _like_ isolation, and by and large, those people would make up the early settlers. It’d only be in later generations that you’d get folks born into isolation who don’t like it. Folks born in isolation don’t know or expect much different, unless they have media access that brings them pictures and stories of the larger world. Also keep in mind that the lives of the poor living in cities were not all that great then (or now for that matter) and many had come west to escape that. ---
**Author:** ![Lare](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/53a042/32.png) [@Lare](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lare)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2011, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suicide-rates-montana/587346/33 "2011-07-01T17:32:49Z")
> [@dolphinboy](#): > > We have two quarter horses now and I can’t imagine living anywhere else. So you have one half horse? You’re right about the summers there. I used to have to take a week-long business trip to Montana each year in September and I always padded it with a week or two of vacation. Absolutely beautiful scenery. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2011, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suicide-rates-montana/587346/34 "2011-07-01T18:30:21Z")
> [@dbx820](#): > > Makes me wonder what the suicide rate was when the west was first settled. … Thing is that there is zero data. Death rate high, accidental death rate high, murder rate high. Suicides seem unlikely to have been kept tabs on. Numbers that have been kept through history, heck even cross cultural numbers now, are suspect according to valence suicide has in the culture. In some societies suicides are more likely hidden and labeled as accidents. For example in the Middle Ages when the property of those who completed suicide was confiscated from the family, you can bet that most families made it seem like an accident had happened. In any case rural and access to a quick effective method are key aspects. The Western rural world it is male and guns; [in China](http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2010/06/16/chinese-women-suicide-and-killer-pesticides.html) it is women and easy access to very toxic pesticides. Different tools but the same idea - hard rural living, isolation, easy access to a highly effective means on a moment’s notice. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suicide-rates-montana/587346.md?page=1)