# Suing the Aliens (intellectual exercise)
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suing-the-aliens-intellectual-exercise/627152
**Category:** Great Debates
**Created:** [July 3, 2012, 11:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suing-the-aliens-intellectual-exercise/627152 "2012-07-03T23:16:25Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 1
### Author:  [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)
#### Post date: [July 3, 2012, 11:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suing-the-aliens-intellectual-exercise/627152/1 "2012-07-03T23:16:25Z")
Let’s say that one day the Gray Aliens show up and decide to stick around for a while and, while they do not freely give us technology as the overly optimistic might desire, we do become acquainted with some of it.
Let us assume that some of it, small bits here and there, is very similar to technology we already have.
Of course, someone, somewhere is going to want to sue the Grays for patent infringement. “Hey, you have touch screen interfaces! We own that idea!” or “We own the concept of recording digital media in ways similar to that!”
What traction would this gain and/or what limitations would be placed on this sort of thing, as the legal system currently stands?
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### Author:  [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)
#### Post date: [July 3, 2012, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suing-the-aliens-intellectual-exercise/627152/2 "2012-07-03T23:18:16Z")
Nope. I don’t think they’d be subject to any treaties regarding patents. Nor would our patent laws apply to something made in another solar system by an alien species.
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### Author:  [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)
#### Post date: [July 3, 2012, 11:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suing-the-aliens-intellectual-exercise/627152/3 "2012-07-03T23:36:08Z")
If we were able to bombard their planet with very large rocks, suffering no retaliation or repercussions ourselves… Then we would “win” any patent infringement lawsuit.
If on the other hand, they had the technology to bombard OUR planet with very large rocks, suffering no retaliation or repercussions themselves… They THEY win any patent infringement lawsuit.
It’s just that simple.
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### Author:  [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)
#### Post date: [July 3, 2012, 11:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suing-the-aliens-intellectual-exercise/627152/4 "2012-07-03T23:44:02Z")
> [@Chimera](#):
>
> What traction would this gain and/or what limitations would be placed on this sort of thing, as the legal system currently stands?
None, until we sign some treaties.
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### Author:  [@greenslime1951](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/greenslime1951)
#### Post date: [July 3, 2012, 11:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suing-the-aliens-intellectual-exercise/627152/5 "2012-07-03T23:53:44Z")
Even if you could sue them and win, what would you do with the settlement of 300 trillion blookazoopers in alien money?
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### Author:  [@Grumman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grumman)
#### Post date: [July 4, 2012, 12:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suing-the-aliens-intellectual-exercise/627152/6 "2012-07-04T00:31:27Z")
> [@Chimera](#):
>
> Of course, someone, somewhere is going to want to sue the Grays for patent infringement. “Hey, you have touch screen interfaces! We own that idea!” or “We own the concept of recording digital media in ways similar to that!”
>
> What traction would this gain and/or what limitations would be placed on this sort of thing, as the legal system currently stands?
If anything the Greys’ technology should invalidate patents, not the other way around. If people have developed the same technology in a vacuum, it means your invention is not innovative enough to be protected by a patent.
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### Author:  [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)
#### Post date: [July 4, 2012, 12:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suing-the-aliens-intellectual-exercise/627152/7 "2012-07-04T00:33:36Z")
Only persons can sue or be sued. Legally speaking, persons are either human beings, or corporations.
Aliens are not legally recognised as persons You can’t sue them.
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### Author:  [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)
#### Post date: [July 4, 2012, 12:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suing-the-aliens-intellectual-exercise/627152/8 "2012-07-04T00:36:31Z")
I
> [@greenslime1951](#):
>
> Even if you could sue them and win, what would you do with the settlement of 300 trillion blookazoopers in alien money?
Well, 40 yorlocks can get you two signed 8x12s and a handjob.
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### Author:  [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)
#### Post date: [July 4, 2012, 12:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suing-the-aliens-intellectual-exercise/627152/9 "2012-07-04T00:45:58Z")
> [@Peter\_Morris](#):
>
> Only persons can sue or be sued. Legally speaking, persons are either human beings, or corporations.
That’s for the courts to decide. I for one do not think that most judges in the U.S. would not even _allow_ a lawsuit for or against aliens, as long as they could communicate with us sufficiently. And they’d sure as heck be able to hire a lawyer to represent them, who wouldn’t want to achieve fame as the first lawyer to sue aliens.
This is of course barring any hasty “an alien is not a person” legislation passed upon first contact.
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### Author:  [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)
#### Post date: [July 4, 2012, 12:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suing-the-aliens-intellectual-exercise/627152/10 "2012-07-04T00:59:56Z")
Well that’s the ticket. I expect there’s some patent troll somewhere who would want to try it, just to get attention and see what happens.
Invalidating our own patents because it was developed on other worlds would cause crippling economic chaos, so I don’t expect that to happen either. I expect there may be some issues if they tried to SELL technology that infringed on existing patents, but therein lies the rub.
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### Author:  [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)
#### Post date: [July 4, 2012, 1:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suing-the-aliens-intellectual-exercise/627152/11 "2012-07-04T01:36:07Z")
> [@Peter\_Morris](#):
>
> Only persons can sue or be sued. Legally speaking, persons are either human beings, or corporations.
>
> Aliens are not legally recognised as persons You can’t sue them.
I’m betting that personhood would be extended very quickly. Like, _before_ someone tries that argument as a defense in a murder case.
And if the legislature doesn’t do it, the courts certainly would.
**Euphonious Polemic** : There might be something to what you say, but I prefer to imagine that the legal system would try to operate regardless of the gross realities of military power.
The United States government has a gigantic army, and tanks, and soldiers, and flame-throwers – and yet ordinary citizens have sued it and won. Pure power is not always the sole discriminant of legal victory.
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### Author:  [@emeraldia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/emeraldia)
#### Post date: [July 4, 2012, 2:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suing-the-aliens-intellectual-exercise/627152/12 "2012-07-04T02:29:06Z")
What if it turns out the aliens did not develop all of their technology independently, but had intercepted our radio transmissions from afar and essentially _stole_ some patented technology. Boy, then they’d be in some big trouble, right?
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### Author:  [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)
#### Post date: [July 4, 2012, 1:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suing-the-aliens-intellectual-exercise/627152/13 "2012-07-04T13:52:50Z")
> [@Peter\_Morris](#):
>
> Only persons can sue or be sued. Legally speaking, persons are either human beings, or corporations.
>
> Aliens are not legally recognised as persons You can’t sue them.
Precedent in Ontario states: aliens cannot sue. See: Joly v. Pelletier, [1999] O.J. No. 1728 (Ont. S.C.).
> [@](#):
>
> 8 Mr. Joly, in a well prepared, thoughtful argument submitted that he had evidence of falsification of records and related wrongdoing. On the pivotal point of Mr. Joly’s being in fact a martian Mr. Joly advised me that the only reason he was not now able to satisfy the Court that he is a martian, not a human, is due to the falsification of his D.N.A. test results by the Americans.
>
> 9 The authorities relied upon by the moving parties are well known. On a motion to strike out a pleading, the Court must accept the facts as alleged in the Statement of Claim as proven unless they are patently ridiculous and incapable of proof and must read the Statement of Claim generously with allowance for inadequacies due to drafting deficiencies. See Nash v. The Queen in Right of Ontario (1995), 27 O.R. (3d) 1 (C.A.). Perhaps the leading case is that of Carey Canada Inc. v. Hunt et al. (1990) 74 D.L.R. (4th) 321 (S.C.C) in which the test in Canada is described as assuming that the facts as stated in the Statement of Claim can be proved, the Court must be satisfied that it is “plain and obvious” that the plaintiff’s statement of claim discloses no reasonable cause of action.
>
> 10 Concerning rule 25.11, the Court will dismiss or stay an action as being frivolous, vexatious or abusive only in the clearest cases where it is plain and obvious the case cannot succeed. The decision in Steiner v. Canada [1996] F.C.J. No. 1356 (Fed. T.D.) makes it clear that if a pleading does not present a rational argument, either on the evidence or in law, in support of the claim, and casts unreasonable aspersions is frivolous.
>
> 11 In my opinion there are at lease two reasons why the two Statements of Claim in question ought to be struck and the actions dismissed.
>
> 1. Neither pleading discloses a cause of action. While conspiracy to do harm to someone is the basis of many actions in this Court there is a fundamental flaw in the position of Mr. Joly. Rule 1.03 defines plaintiff as “a person who commences an action”. The New Shorter Oxford English Dictionary defines person as “an individual human being”. Section 29 of the Interpretation Act provides that a person includes a corporation. It follows that if the plaintiff is not a person in that he is neither a human being nor a corporation, he cannot be a plaintiff as contemplated by the Rules of Civil Procedure. The entire basis of Mr. Joly’s actions is that he is a martian, not a human being. There is certainly no suggestion that he is a corporation. I conclude therefore, that Mr. Joly, on his pleading as drafted, has no status before the Court.
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### Author:  [@The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tao_s_Revenge)
#### Post date: [July 4, 2012, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suing-the-aliens-intellectual-exercise/627152/14 "2012-07-04T16:52:36Z")
> [@Peter\_Morris](#):
>
> Only persons can sue or be sued. Legally speaking, persons are either human beings, or corporations.
>
> Aliens are not legally recognised as persons You can’t sue them.
False.
See: [United States v. $124,700 in U.S. Currency](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USA_v._$124,700)
Yes suing objects is stupid, but aliens ought to be considered persons.
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### Author:  [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)
#### Post date: [July 4, 2012, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suing-the-aliens-intellectual-exercise/627152/15 "2012-07-04T18:22:55Z")
> [@Trinopus](#):
>
> I’m betting that personhood would be extended very quickly. Like, _before_ someone tries that argument as a defense in a murder case.
I’m fairly certain that if someone were to kill the Alien Ambassador or a member of it’s staff, we’d try them for murder, no questions asked. To do otherwise would be absurdly stupid and begs the question “If we don’t recognize them as ‘people’, what happens if they decide we’re not ‘people’?”
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### Author:  [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)
#### Post date: [July 4, 2012, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suing-the-aliens-intellectual-exercise/627152/16 "2012-07-04T20:17:49Z")
**Chimera** : Agreed. In my post, I almost mentioned the near-certainty of the courts extending personhood automatically, simply by hearing such a case.
Of course, much depends on what kind of alien! What if they are a “hive mind,” consisting of thousands of little floppy jellyfish thingies. Or what if they don’t even have the concept of “law” at all. (They may be a perfectly cooperating species, and would look upon us with some horror.)
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### Author:  [@Sacrilegium](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sacrilegium)
#### Post date: [July 9, 2012, 2:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suing-the-aliens-intellectual-exercise/627152/17 "2012-07-09T02:53:44Z")
When I first started reading the title and the very beginning of the OP, I assumed we’d be suing them for emotional/physical damage from all the anal probes.
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### Author:  [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)
#### Post date: [July 9, 2012, 3:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suing-the-aliens-intellectual-exercise/627152/18 "2012-07-09T03:08:14Z")
[One in ten doesn’t really seem to mind](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xz7sBTHtcLU)
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### Author:  [@Balthisar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Balthisar)
#### Post date: [July 9, 2012, 1:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suing-the-aliens-intellectual-exercise/627152/19 "2012-07-09T13:43:09Z")
I suppose that as long as the aliens didn’t try to manufacture and sell (or even give away) their technology on the market, they’d have few difficulties.
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### Author:  [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)
#### Post date: [July 9, 2012, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suing-the-aliens-intellectual-exercise/627152/20 "2012-07-09T14:43:26Z")
Then there’d also be the question of what would happen if Humans tried to patent Alien technology, or if Aliens patented the technology they wished to sell us.
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