# Summer tires (need answer before Friday's snowstorm) **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [January 20, 2016, 2:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/summer-tires-need-answer-before-fridays-snowstorm/743677 "2016-01-20T14:46:50Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2016, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/summer-tires-need-answer-before-fridays-snowstorm/743677/81 "2016-01-22T19:16:02Z")
> [@ZurBob](#): > > Obviously, one has an edge when driving on season appropriate tires, no argument there. I simply differ in my opinion as to the import and magnitude of that edge. True summer tires are useless in the snow. You may well have your opinion, but it’s simply not supported by the evidence. ---
**Author:** ![Machine\_Elf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/82dd89/32.png) [@Machine\_Elf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Machine_Elf)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2016, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/summer-tires-need-answer-before-fridays-snowstorm/743677/82 "2016-01-22T19:33:00Z")
> [@ZurBob](#): > > Obviously, one has an edge when driving on season appropriate tires, no argument there. I simply differ in my opinion as to the import and magnitude of that edge. Have you ever driven in the snow on summer tires? If not, then you have no basis for your opinion as to how much worse they are than snows or all-seasons. I did it once, and I will never do it again. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2016, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/summer-tires-need-answer-before-fridays-snowstorm/743677/83 "2016-01-22T19:45:03Z")
> [@ZurBob](#): > > Obviously, one has an edge when driving on season appropriate tires, no argument there. I simply differ in my opinion as to the import and magnitude of that edge. Just because it’s your opinion doesn’t mean you’re right. Factually there have been many examples showing you are wrong. Anecdotedly you would be hard-pressed to find many people that agree with you and disagree with us. ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2016, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/summer-tires-need-answer-before-fridays-snowstorm/743677/84 "2016-01-22T21:39:17Z")
> [@ZurBob](#): > > Curse you, Muffin. I just wasted the last hour watching old WKRP videos.🙂 A waste of an hour? I don’t think it is possible to waste an hour watching WKRP. Enjoy an hour? Absolutely. ---
**Author:** ![gigi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a587f6/32.png) [@gigi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gigi)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2016, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/summer-tires-need-answer-before-fridays-snowstorm/743677/85 "2016-01-22T22:52:41Z")
> [@Muffin](#): > > For winter, I use Nokian Hakkapeliitta studded winter tires. I’d get these just because it’s fun to say. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2016, 12:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/summer-tires-need-answer-before-fridays-snowstorm/743677/86 "2016-01-23T00:33:26Z")
In my particular Canadian city, it happens that a lot of people speak like that (Finnish) all the time. It’s a nice sounding language. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Spud](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spud/32/347_2.png) [@Spud](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spud)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2016, 12:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/summer-tires-need-answer-before-fridays-snowstorm/743677/87 "2016-01-23T00:59:19Z")
> [@ZurBob](#): > > Ya know… By Saturday, even in DC, all the roads will be clear… Why panic over less than 12 hours? Well, I’m not from the DC area and don’t know what magical powers they have, but the heaviest snow is supposed to come down all day on Saturday. If it is anything like where I live the main roads will get plowed relatively quickly, but the back roads and neighborhoods will be nightmares for several days. ---
**Author:** ![FoieGrasIsEvil](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foiegrasisevil/32/16638_2.png) [@FoieGrasIsEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FoieGrasIsEvil)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2016, 1:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/summer-tires-need-answer-before-fridays-snowstorm/743677/88 "2016-01-23T01:57:10Z")
> [@Dallas\_Jones](#): > > Wide, flat, tires on a light sports car are not a very good way to get around in the snow. You tend to just sit on top of the snow without getting any real traction "bite’. > > I tried to drive my Trans Am last year in about 3 inches of snow. If I could just get to the highway it would be clear enough that I could go the 11 miles to work. Nope! I pulled it out of the garage and got stuck, on flat ground, in 2 or 3 inches, but did manage to get back into the garage. > > **And these were Cooper All Season tires** , which just means the tread pattern is more open. Fortunately the wife’s F150 was available. > > I hope you have good luck with your winter tires but I am not real confident. Your car just isn’t really suited to snow. But a lot depends on what type of snow, really cold snow will be better than warm slippery stuff. And the transition between really cold and thawing will be a bitch. > > Good luck. Were they Cooper Zeon RS-3 A’s? They are GREAT tires (for everything but snow and ice). When I had my GT Mustang and the original BF Goodrich TA’s needed replaced at only 19k miles I bought a set of those and got 40k miles out of them. Can’t say enough good things about Cooper performance tires, especially due to price. ---
**Author:** ![JohnGalt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johngalt/32/184_2.png) [@JohnGalt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnGalt)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2016, 2:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/summer-tires-need-answer-before-fridays-snowstorm/743677/89 "2016-01-23T02:47:37Z")
Here in Minnesota my family is rolling their eyes at the “bad” weather on the east coast. Here it’s known as “Tuesday”. Then I remember visiting Dallas during the 1993 Thanksgiving storm, and although it wasn’t a lot of snow, there weren’t a lot of snow plows going at it either. Back on topic, last year I bought a VW with performance tires, which just spun on any snowfall of more than an inch, or on a slow start on any kind of incline; that was one reason I got real snow tires (Blizzak). However, another major reason I haven’t seen mentioned here yet is that with low-profile wheels sitting closer to the ground, they seem to collect more road “gunk” - snow and slush and salt. Then when you park the gunk collects above the 6-o’clock part of the wheel and freezes. Driving then gives a really nice whump-whump sound, making you think you’ve got a flat tire until you pull over and clean out the messy gunk. I could live with a little slippage, but that freezing gunk problem drove me crazy. That’s another reason to get standard height wheels which won’t accumulate so much gunk. ---
**Author:** ![Morgenstern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Morgenstern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgenstern)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2016, 4:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/summer-tires-need-answer-before-fridays-snowstorm/743677/90 "2016-01-23T04:14:56Z")
> [@BrotherCadfael](#): > > Apparently, VA is going to have a massive snowstorm this weekend. Take the car down to your local tire shop and get a set of snows. > > Now. This. Snow tires for snow. Summer tires for dry roads. ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2016, 4:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/summer-tires-need-answer-before-fridays-snowstorm/743677/91 "2016-01-23T04:22:20Z")
Winter tires are mushy and pliable (at least for about 3 years), so they are good on snow and ice. Even a subtropical noob like myself made it through a very hard boreal winter thanks to winter tires. They are passable in warm weather, but not at excessive speeds, and warm weather degrades winter tires quite a bit. Summer tires are the opposite of that. Hard things that are built for speed, but spin like bowling pins on ice. Winter tires are an investment. If you don’t want to make it, buy chains or something, but don’t drive on ice in summer tires. ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2016, 8:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/summer-tires-need-answer-before-fridays-snowstorm/743677/92 "2016-01-23T08:58:34Z")
ditto to everyone saying “winter tyres” We drive from the UK to Austria every winter and it is a legal requirement to have them fitted. This xmas the only car that I saw getting stuck on slippery and snowy roads had “all-season” tyres on. They were next to useless. Very few people in the mountains bother with AWD cars, 2wd, good tyres and sensible driving will get you through 95% of the conditions you’ll meet and the other 5% you should stay at home anyway. ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2016, 1:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/summer-tires-need-answer-before-fridays-snowstorm/743677/93 "2016-01-23T13:47:27Z")
> [@ZurBob](#): > > Obviously, one has an edge when driving on season appropriate tires, no argument there. I simply differ in my opinion as to the import and magnitude of that edge. Conditions: surface moisture from precipitation during the day iced up in the evening as temperatures dropped, followed by a little snow on top of the ice. Speed: dead crawl. Driving experience: Presumably high. Vehicle condition: excellent but no snow tires. Result: absolutely uncontrollable, bumping into curb (first ten seconds of vid). [How about everyone chip in a buy this guy a set of snow tires.](http://wjla.com/news/videos/president-obamas-motorcade-slips-and-slides-on-snow-covered-roads) Snow tires are a lot more than just an edge. They are a basic piece of equipment for driving on icy roads. ---
**Author:** ![Dallas\_Jones](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dallas_jones/32/3277_2.png) [@Dallas\_Jones](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dallas_Jones)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2016, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/summer-tires-need-answer-before-fridays-snowstorm/743677/94 "2016-01-23T16:51:21Z")
> [@FoieGrasIsEvil](#): > > Were they Cooper Zeon RS-3 A’s? They are GREAT tires (for everything but snow and ice). When I had my GT Mustang and the original BF Goodrich TA’s needed replaced at only 19k miles I bought a set of those and got 40k miles out of them. Can’t say enough good things about Cooper performance tires, especially due to price. Yes, exactly, Cooper Zeon RS-3 A 275/40R17. And like your car, the Goodyear F-1 Eagles that came on the car wore out unacceptably soon for me. I ran Toyo Proxes 4s for a couple sets but my local shop quit carrying them so I went with Coopers and am happy except for the snow and ice where the car must stay parked. ---
**Author:** ![ZurBob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/71e660/32.png) [@ZurBob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZurBob)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2016, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/summer-tires-need-answer-before-fridays-snowstorm/743677/95 "2016-01-23T20:35:18Z")
> [@Spud](#): > > Well, I’m not from the DC area and don’t know what magical powers they have, but the heaviest snow is supposed to come down all day on Saturday. If it is anything like where I live the main roads will get plowed relatively quickly, but the back roads and neighborhoods will be nightmares for several days. I stand corrected. 48 hrs. (or longer)… Is the concept any different? Impassible roads are by definition, impassible until the plows do their thing. In the OP’s situation, regardless of tire construction, one is going nowhere. After the plows, see my previous posts. ---
**Author:** ![ZurBob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/71e660/32.png) [@ZurBob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZurBob)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2016, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/summer-tires-need-answer-before-fridays-snowstorm/743677/96 "2016-01-23T20:44:25Z")
> [@Muffin](#): > > Conditions: surface moisture from precipitation during the day iced up in the evening as temperatures dropped, followed by a little snow on top of the ice. Speed: dead crawl. Driving experience: Presumably high. Vehicle condition: excellent but no snow tires. > > Result: absolutely uncontrollable, bumping into curb (first ten seconds of vid). > > [How about everyone chip in a buy this guy a set of snow tires.](http://wjla.com/news/videos/president-obamas-motorcade-slips-and-slides-on-snow-covered-roads) > > Snow tires are a lot more than just an edge. They are a basic piece of equipment for driving on icy roads. Muffin, I understand your concern, and agree with you (sort of) as to the benefit of snow tires that you have delineated. I just don’t share the absolute conclusions you have arrived at. ---
**Author:** ![ZurBob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/71e660/32.png) [@ZurBob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZurBob)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2016, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/summer-tires-need-answer-before-fridays-snowstorm/743677/97 "2016-01-23T21:08:34Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > Just because it’s your opinion doesn’t mean you’re right. > Factually there have been many examples showing you are wrong. > Anecdotedly you would be hard-pressed to find many people that agree with you and disagree with us. Factually, there is no evidence displayed thus far that my opinion is incorrect. Anecdotally, every one else is in agreement. I suppose that makes you the winner. ---
**Author:** ![ZurBob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/71e660/32.png) [@ZurBob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZurBob)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2016, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/summer-tires-need-answer-before-fridays-snowstorm/743677/98 "2016-01-23T21:33:28Z")
> [@Machine\_Elf](#): > > Have you ever driven in the snow on summer tires? If not, then you have no basis for your opinion as to how much worse they are than snows or all-seasons. I did it once, and I will never do it again. In answer to your snarky question: Yes, I have. Many times, for many years. Just yesterday. No problem. 10 miles round trip to town, up and down mountainous terrain on Michelin Energy Saver tires in 4" of snow with an ice base. I believe my tires qualify as to your criteria for “summer tires”. It wasn’t pretty… I broke traction several times and would have been better off with winter tires… But I did OK. I don’t have the luxury of owning multiple cars used only in certain seasons, much less having multiple sets of tires based on potentially narrower temperature gradients that may be experienced in any given season. I drive the car that I have, and adjust my technique per conditions encountered. ---
**Author:** ![Spud](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spud/32/347_2.png) [@Spud](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spud)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2016, 11:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/summer-tires-need-answer-before-fridays-snowstorm/743677/99 "2016-01-23T23:03:31Z")
> [@ZurBob](#): > > No problem. 10 miles round trip to town, up and down mountainous terrain on Michelin Energy Saver tires in 4" of snow with an ice base. I believe my tires qualify as to your criteria for “summer tires”. Nope… Michelin Energy Savers are All Season tires. They are not Summer tires. You clearly don’t know what Summer tires are. I too use all season tires because I have six vehicles and widely varying temperatures so I would go broke (and have no time to do anything else) if I had to constantly change. I do have one that I normally store in the winter that I sometimes run on Summer tires (much more grip in warm weather, but suck when it gets cold). I do understand using All Weather is a compromise. I also understand that All Weather tires are not the same thing as Summer tires. An example of Michelin’s version of summer tires are their Pilot Exalto PE2… not the Energy Savers. ETA: per the Michelin site for those tires “The Pilot Exalto PE2 was developed to provide crisp and responsive handling in both wet and dry conditions, however it is not intended to be driven in near-freezing temperatures, through snow or on ice.” ---
**Author:** ![ZurBob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/71e660/32.png) [@ZurBob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZurBob)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2016, 11:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/summer-tires-need-answer-before-fridays-snowstorm/743677/100 "2016-01-23T23:38:15Z")
> [@Spud](#): > > Nope… Michelin Energy Savers are All Season tires. They are not Summer tires. You clearly don’t know what Summer tires are. > > I too use all season tires because I have six vehicles and widely varying temperatures so I would go broke (and have no time to do anything else) if I had to constantly change. I do have one that I normally store in the winter that I sometimes run on Summer tires (much more grip in warm weather, but suck when it gets cold). I do understand using All Weather is a compromise. I also understand that All Weather tires are not the same thing as Summer tires. An example of Michelin’s version of summer tires are their Pilot Exalto PE2… not the Energy Savers. > > ETA: per the Michelin site for those tires “The Pilot Exalto PE2 was developed to provide crisp and responsive handling in both wet and dry conditions, however it is not intended to be driven in near-freezing temperatures, through snow or on ice.” Oh for heavens sake, my tires, according to the Michelin website, define them as “summer tires”. If you have some knowledge beyond their definition, then so be it. They are skinny tires with a “non- aggressive” compound and profile for winter driving, according to Michelin. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/summer-tires-need-answer-before-fridays-snowstorm/743677.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/summer-tires-need-answer-before-fridays-snowstorm/743677.md?page=6)