# Summer tires (need answer before Friday's snowstorm) **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [January 20, 2016, 2:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/summer-tires-need-answer-before-fridays-snowstorm/743677 "2016-01-20T14:46:50Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![ZurBob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/71e660/32.png) [@ZurBob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZurBob)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2016, 11:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/summer-tires-need-answer-before-fridays-snowstorm/743677/101 "2016-01-23T23:53:39Z")
> [@Spud](#): > > Nope… Michelin Energy Savers are All Season tires. They are not Summer tires. You clearly don’t know what Summer tires are." My basis for knowledge in this case is the manufacturer of the product, Michelin. According to them, my tires are summer tires. Apparently you know better. ---
**Author:** ![Spud](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spud/32/347_2.png) [@Spud](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spud)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2016, 11:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/summer-tires-need-answer-before-fridays-snowstorm/743677/102 "2016-01-23T23:53:51Z")
Have you even looked at the Michelin web site? From the Energy Saver page… “Advanced silica tread compound provides **all-season** traction and no-compromise wet braking.” From the summer tire page… “The Pilot Exalto PE2 was developed to provide crisp and responsive handling in both wet and dry conditions, however it is not intended to be driven in near-freezing temperatures, through snow or on ice.” This is like arguing with a vegan about the best way to grill a steak. ---
**Author:** ![Spud](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spud/32/347_2.png) [@Spud](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spud)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2016, 11:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/summer-tires-need-answer-before-fridays-snowstorm/743677/103 "2016-01-23T23:55:31Z")
> [@ZurBob](#): > > Oh for heavens sake, my tires, according to the Michelin website, define them as “summer tires”. Please provide a cite for this claim. ---
**Author:** ![Spud](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spud/32/347_2.png) [@Spud](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spud)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2016, 12:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/summer-tires-need-answer-before-fridays-snowstorm/743677/104 "2016-01-24T00:08:02Z")
I’ll save you some time… I did find a page for their Energy Saver tires that are for Mini Coopers, BMW 3 series, and Passats that are listed as Summer tires. That still doesn’t mean you should use them in winter conditions… why do you think they call the “Summer” tires? ---
**Author:** ![Tired\_and\_Cranky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a87d85/32.png) [@Tired\_and\_Cranky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tired_and_Cranky)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2016, 12:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/summer-tires-need-answer-before-fridays-snowstorm/743677/105 "2016-01-24T00:45:37Z")
> [@JohnGalt](#): > > Here in Minnesota my family is rolling their eyes at the “bad” weather on the east coast. Here it’s known as “Tuesday”. Then I remember visiting Dallas during the 1993 Thanksgiving storm, and although it wasn’t a lot of snow, there weren’t a lot of snow plows going at it either. How often does Tuesday come in Minnesota? Where I am it comes weekly. If Minneapolis got 24 inch snow storms every week, they could expect total snowfall of 312 inches over a winter. Do you know the average annual snowfall in Minneapolis? 55.5 inches. That means DC is getting half a Minneapolis year’s snow in about 36 hours. Still sound routine to your family? If so, they are incredibly ignorant and like to feel baselessly superior. For what it’s worth, I grew up very close to one of the few cities in the US snowier than Minneapolis. This would be a big storm even by that city’s standards. ---
**Author:** ![Tired\_and\_Cranky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a87d85/32.png) [@Tired\_and\_Cranky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tired_and_Cranky)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2016, 12:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/summer-tires-need-answer-before-fridays-snowstorm/743677/106 "2016-01-24T00:47:05Z")
> [@Machine\_Elf](#): > > Why do they do this? With the roads virtually impassable, I would think that people would be even more reliant on trains than ever. They put some of the trains in the tunnels to protect them from the snow. ---
**Author:** ![ZurBob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/71e660/32.png) [@ZurBob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZurBob)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2016, 12:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/summer-tires-need-answer-before-fridays-snowstorm/743677/107 "2016-01-24T00:52:37Z")
> [@Spud](#): > > I’ll save you some time… I did find a page for their Energy Saver tires that are for Mini Coopers, BMW 3 series, and Passats that are listed as Summer tires. > > That still doesn’t mean you should use them in winter conditions… why do you think they call the “Summer” tires? Because Michelin quotes them as summer tires. That is what I have. Per my argument. Get it? ---
**Author:** ![Spud](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spud/32/347_2.png) [@Spud](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spud)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2016, 12:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/summer-tires-need-answer-before-fridays-snowstorm/743677/108 "2016-01-24T00:52:38Z")
> [@Tired\_and\_Cranky](#): > > How often does Tuesday come in Minnesota? Where I am it comes weekly. If Minneapolis got 24 inch snow storms every week, they could expect total snowfall of 312 inches over a winter. Do you know the average annual snowfall in Minneapolis? 55.5 inches. That means DC is getting half a Minneapolis year’s snow in about 36 hours. Still sound routine to your family? If so, they are incredibly ignorant and like to feel baselessly superior. For what it’s worth, I grew up very close to one of the few cities in the US snowier than Minneapolis. This would be a big storm even by that city’s standards. Or maybe they were making a joke. But if you are tired and cranky you may not have understood that. ---
**Author:** ![Spud](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spud/32/347_2.png) [@Spud](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spud)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2016, 1:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/summer-tires-need-answer-before-fridays-snowstorm/743677/109 "2016-01-24T01:06:53Z")
> [@ZurBob](#): > > Because Michelin quotes them as summer tires. > > That is what I have. Per my argument. Get it? No, I don’t get your argument. There is ONE version of their energy saver tires that are listed as Summer Tires. They are used on three models of cars as I mentioned before. The much more common version is the Energy Saver A/S which is an all season tire. Care to take a look at yours and answer me honestly which you have (or tell me if you drive a Mini Cooper, VW Passat, or BMW 3 series). My point is that any tire listed as a “Summer” tire is listed this way for a reason. It is for use in the summer… not the winter. Many posters here have explained very clearly and cited facts as to why they should not be used in winter. You have cited your own special abilities to manage to drive on tires in conditions they aren’t intended for. By the way… how’s that prediction that the roads should be clear by Saturday holding up for you? ---
**Author:** ![ZurBob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/71e660/32.png) [@ZurBob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZurBob)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2016, 1:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/summer-tires-need-answer-before-fridays-snowstorm/743677/110 "2016-01-24T01:07:02Z")
> [@Tired\_and\_Cranky](#): > > They put some of the trains in the tunnels to protect them from the snow. Seriously though, (albeit off topic) why do rail transit systems shut down in inclement weather? ---
**Author:** ![ZurBob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/71e660/32.png) [@ZurBob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZurBob)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2016, 1:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/summer-tires-need-answer-before-fridays-snowstorm/743677/111 "2016-01-24T01:36:41Z")
> [@Spud](#): > > No, I don’t get your argument. There is ONE version of their energy saver tires that are listed as Summer Tires. They are used on three models of cars as I mentioned before. The much more common version is the Energy Saver A/S which is an all season tire. Care to take a look at yours and answer me honestly which you have (or tell me if you drive a Mini Cooper, VW Passat, or BMW 3 series). > > My point is that any tire listed as a “Summer” tire is listed this way for a reason. It is for use in the summer… not the winter. > > Many posters here have explained very clearly and cited facts as to why they should not be used in winter. You have cited your own special abilities to manage to drive on tires in conditions they aren’t intended for. > > By the way… how’s that prediction that the roads should be clear by Saturday holding up for you? Perhaps there is some confusion on your part related to “original equipment” versus “what I replaced it with”. My 2006 Honda Civic Michelin “energy saver” tire replacement is not necessarily the same tire as what Audi specifies as original equipment on say, their Michelin OEM “energy saver” tires for 2016. Let me assure you, Michelin considers my replacement tires as summer tires. I hold no allusion to any “special” ability in winter driving skills, I simply take note of other’s lack of said ability. As for my prediction of road clearance… My crystal ball is no better than anyone else’s, I just gave a guestimate. ---
**Author:** ![ZurBob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/71e660/32.png) [@ZurBob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZurBob)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2016, 3:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/summer-tires-need-answer-before-fridays-snowstorm/743677/112 "2016-01-24T03:09:53Z")
Is it now absolutely necessary for me to cite a Michelin link to convince you that my tires are of the summer classification? If necessary, I can comply. ---
**Author:** ![Spud](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spud/32/347_2.png) [@Spud](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spud)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2016, 5:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/summer-tires-need-answer-before-fridays-snowstorm/743677/113 "2016-01-24T05:55:36Z")
> [@ZurBob](#): > > Is it now absolutely necessary for me to cite a Michelin link to convince you that my tires are of the summer classification? > > If necessary, I can comply. I’m not sure what you are trying to “win” here… I already said that they offer a version of this tire that is listed as an “Ultra Performance Summer” tire. So you do not need to provide a cite… I’ve admitted that they make such a thing. They also offer more common versions of the same name (Energy Saver) that are listed as All Season. I find it hard to believe that you paid the premium to put the “Ultra High Performance” tires on a 10 year old Civic. Especially in an area that gets 4" of snow. You don’t sound like a Ricer or you would have told me about all your other mods besides the tires. I looked at the three major tire stores, and only one offered the Summer version for your make/model/year. They all offered the All Season version though. You posted before that… “I believe my tires qualify as to your criteria for “summer tires”.” It was not the poster you’re replying to that set the criteria for a summer tire. This makes me think you don’t understand that “Summer” is actually a technical definition of a type of tire and not just “Not Snow” tires. Similar to how tires also have speed ratings. One last time from the Michelin site regarding “Summer” tires… “not intended to be driven in near-freezing temperatures, through snow or on ice.” But, you seem to know better than the manufacturer. I’ll ask you one more time why you think a tire that is specifically designated as a “Summer” tire would be appropriate in the winter… especially when the manufacturer says it isn’t. I’ll toss out an olive branch though… I loved the Go Go Gophers cartoon. ---
**Author:** ![engineer\_comp\_geek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/engineer_comp_geek/32/504_2.png) [@engineer\_comp\_geek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/engineer_comp_geek)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2016, 6:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/summer-tires-need-answer-before-fridays-snowstorm/743677/114 "2016-01-24T06:10:07Z")
> [@Machine\_Elf](#): > > Why do they do this? With the roads virtually impassable, I would think that people would be even more reliant on trains than ever. This is what the DC Metro folks have to say about it: > [@](#): > > Schools close, businesses and governments institute liberal leave policies or close altogether, and the region curtails all but the most basic services. Likewise, Metro’s focus shifts when blizzards are predicted and snow accumulates beyond eight inches. When the temperature drops and weather deteriorates, the electrified third rail can become snow-impacted, aboveground tracks may ice over, and rail yards can become impassable. > > For safety reasons, as well as to preserve our railcars and allow for faster recovery after the storm, Metro may suspend aboveground rail service in a major snowstorm and serve only underground stations. From here: [http://www.wmata.com/getting\_around/safety\_security/snowmap.cfm](http://www.wmata.com/getting_around/safety_security/snowmap.cfm) ---
**Author:** ![Dag\_Otto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/439d5e/32.png) [@Dag\_Otto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dag_Otto)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2016, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/summer-tires-need-answer-before-fridays-snowstorm/743677/115 "2016-01-24T20:54:08Z")
> [@gigi](#): > > I’d get these just because it’s fun to say. 🙂 Storm is over, so I feel free to go off topic. Nokian Hakkapeliitta reminds me of the[Hakkalügi cyclocross](http://www.ibiscycles.com/bikes/hakkalugi_disc/) bike. Fitting name, because if you have ever raced cyclocross, you have coughed up a lot of crap, including a lung or two. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2016, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/summer-tires-need-answer-before-fridays-snowstorm/743677/116 "2016-01-25T16:17:16Z")
> [@ZurBob](#): > > Oh for heavens sake, my tires, according to the Michelin website, define them as “summer tires”. [You’re wrong](http://www.michelinman.com/US/en/tires/products/energy-saver-as.html#) ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2016, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/summer-tires-need-answer-before-fridays-snowstorm/743677/117 "2016-01-25T16:29:40Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > [You’re wrong](http://www.michelinman.com/US/en/tires/products/energy-saver-as.html#) Linkee no workee. ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2016, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/summer-tires-need-answer-before-fridays-snowstorm/743677/118 "2016-01-25T16:35:27Z")
> [@Boyo\_Jim](#): > > Linkee no workee. And neither do summer tires on ice. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2016, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/summer-tires-need-answer-before-fridays-snowstorm/743677/119 "2016-01-25T16:39:21Z")
> [@Boyo\_Jim](#): > > Linkee no workee. Interesting – the link works on my laptop, but not on my smart phone. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2016, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/summer-tires-need-answer-before-fridays-snowstorm/743677/120 "2016-01-25T16:43:35Z")
> [@ZurBob](#): > > Is it now absolutely necessary for me to cite a Michelin link to convince you that my tires are of the summer classification? > > If necessary, I can comply. Yes, please. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/summer-tires-need-answer-before-fridays-snowstorm/743677.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/summer-tires-need-answer-before-fridays-snowstorm/743677.md?page=7)