# Sumo referees and suicide \[new title\]
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sumo-referees-and-suicide-new-title/186208
**Category:** Factual Questions
**Created:** [July 4, 2003, 8:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sumo-referees-and-suicide-new-title/186208 "2003-07-04T08:12:46Z")
**Posts on this page:** 13
**Page:** 1
### Author:  [@utkik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/utkik)
#### Post date: [July 4, 2003, 8:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sumo-referees-and-suicide-new-title/186208/1 "2003-07-04T08:12:46Z")
Last night, over a few beers, my friends and I got to talking (the best conversations are _always_ in the pub).
Anyways, one of my friends resolutely insisted that the referees of sumo matches essentially live on borrowed time. ‘Why’s that?’ we all asked.
He smugly insisted that if a referee of a sumo bout makes a mistake, tradition dictates he must commit hari-kari by running a sword through his innards.
Is this true? I realise it might have been the case in times gone by, but surely not today. Or is my friend talking through his poo-tubes, which has been known to happen…
Fellow dopers, I’m relying on you in my time of need. There’s a night on the beer resting on this, and if you can help me out, I’ll buy everyone a Guinness 🙂
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### Author:  [@Tarantula](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tarantula)
#### Post date: [July 4, 2003, 8:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sumo-referees-and-suicide-new-title/186208/2 "2003-07-04T08:28:47Z")
I vote for poo-tubes.
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### Author:  [@utkik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/utkik)
#### Post date: [July 4, 2003, 9:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sumo-referees-and-suicide-new-title/186208/3 "2003-07-04T09:29:15Z")
yeah, he’s from Wexford, which explains a lot…
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### Author:  [@Eleusis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eleusis)
#### Post date: [July 4, 2003, 9:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sumo-referees-and-suicide-new-title/186208/4 "2003-07-04T09:36:47Z")
I used to be a sumo ref, and when I screwed up, I did indeed commit Harry Carey.
(I wasn’t very good at that, either)
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### Author:  [@Bruce\_Daddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bruce_Daddy)
#### Post date: [July 4, 2003, 10:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sumo-referees-and-suicide-new-title/186208/5 "2003-07-04T10:07:33Z")
> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by Eleusis \*
> \*\*I used to be a sumo ref, and when I screwed up, I did indeed commit Harry Carey.
>
> (I wasn’t very good at that, either) \*\*
Hey!
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### Author:  [@Colophon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colophon)
#### Post date: [July 4, 2003, 1:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sumo-referees-and-suicide-new-title/186208/6 "2003-07-04T13:42:33Z")
Of course, you could also point out to him that it’s hari-k **i** ri, not hari-kari. That might get you a bonus half. Or a smack upside the head for being a smart aleck.
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### Author:  [@sailor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sailor)
#### Post date: [July 4, 2003, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sumo-referees-and-suicide-new-title/186208/7 "2003-07-04T17:51:46Z")
> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by r\_k \*
> **Of course, you could also point out to him that it’s hari-k** i\*\*ri, not hari-kari. That might get you a bonus half. Or a smack upside the head for being a smart aleck. \*\*
Actually, it is hara-kiri.
utkik, you would get better response if you gave the thread a more descriptive title as you would attract those who might know something about sumo wrestling.
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### Author:  [@Colophon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colophon)
#### Post date: [July 4, 2003, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sumo-referees-and-suicide-new-title/186208/8 "2003-07-04T18:04:10Z")
> [@](#):
>
> Actually, it is hara-kiri.
Oops. Bonus p(o)int for **sailor**.
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### Author:  [@Sivalensis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sivalensis)
#### Post date: [July 4, 2003, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sumo-referees-and-suicide-new-title/186208/9 "2003-07-04T19:11:05Z")
I don’t know anything for sure, so I’m really talk out my behind here, but I would think that this is outdated. The Japanese used to (as in samurai used to) commit seppuku (hara-kiri whatever) if they were dishonered or had failed their master. I think that there was a highly publicized case of someone committing seppuku publicly in the past couple decades (don’t remember who), but then it was something abnormal, an anachronism. It is my opinion (not based on fact, but simply from what I’ve gleaned from Japanese history classes and extensive reading of modern Japanese fiction and such) that he’s talking out his poo-tubes if he thinks that this is still an accepted practice.
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### Author:  [@Tikki](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tikki)
#### Post date: [July 4, 2003, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sumo-referees-and-suicide-new-title/186208/10 "2003-07-04T20:16:19Z")
I remember about ten years ago the president of a Japanese airline did that after one of his planes crashed and killed a whole bunch of people. Perhaps that’s what you’re referring to.
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### Author:  [@bibliophage](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bibliophage)
#### Post date: [July 4, 2003, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sumo-referees-and-suicide-new-title/186208/11 "2003-07-04T21:20:15Z")
I have changed the title of this thread. In the future please try to choose more descriptive titles.
bibliophage
moderator GQ
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### Author:  [@Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tim_T-Bonham.net)
#### Post date: [July 4, 2003, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sumo-referees-and-suicide-new-title/186208/12 "2003-07-04T21:21:50Z")
Possibly you’re thinking of Japanese writer & right-wing militarist Yukio Mishima, who committed ritual suicide Nov 25, 1970 (with his teenage lover).
His death got a lot of publicity, especially because of his political views, favoring a return to the “samuri tradition” (including the warior/squire male love part) and a rearmed & aggressive Japanese influence in the Far East. (Some said he was still fighting WWII, 25 years after it ended.)
Use any search engine to look up Yukio Mishima and you’ll find lots more details.
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### Author:  [@Tsubaki](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tsubaki)
#### Post date: [July 5, 2003, 1:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sumo-referees-and-suicide-new-title/186208/13 "2003-07-05T01:46:07Z")
TRADITIONALLY it was supposed to happen. But there is no record of seppuku being forced on a gyoji in sumo. They are expected to offer to resign, though.
Nowadays it doesn’t, although the tate-gyoji (chief judge) and fuku-tate-gyoji (assistant chief judge) still carry a small sword. Its just for tradition.
Nowadays if a gyoji misjudges twice, he is demoted by one rank.