# Sunday Morning Lies: Cheney and Rice **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [September 10, 2006, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sunday-morning-lies-cheney-and-rice/372182 "2006-09-10T17:36:46Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![El\_Kabong](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/el_kabong/32/496_2.png) [@El\_Kabong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Kabong)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2006, 4:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sunday-morning-lies-cheney-and-rice/372182/81 "2006-09-16T04:41:01Z")
[QUOTE=Carol Stream] Under your definition, the OP itself was a non sequitur, in that Richard Nixon has nothing to do with Secretary Rice. Why didn’t you call out **elucidator** for posting irrelevant "turds"in his OP? [/QUOTE] Sorry, I don’t follow. The OP has not attempted to argue that Mr. Cheney’s performance on _Meet the Press_ was only worth objecting to because Nixon once did something similar. You, on the other hand, apparently are seriously arguing that no one can legitimately object to Mr. Cheney’s behavior if someone from another political party has employed similar tactics at any time in the past, for any reason. You likewise have attempted to turn this discussion from one of Mr. Cheney’s possible malfeasance to one of Mrs. Clinton’s proven non-malfeasance. That is what I meant by irrelevance. Anyway, I thought that calling out **elucidator** , or perhaps anyone you perceive as “loony lefties”, was your entire objective in posting to this thread. What, you need help? ---
**Author:** ![Tuckerfan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/eada6e/32.png) [@Tuckerfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tuckerfan)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2006, 10:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sunday-morning-lies-cheney-and-rice/372182/82 "2006-09-16T10:17:04Z")
[QUOTE=Little Nemo] Wait a minute; the definition of being a “state sponser of terrorism” has been downgraded to having a terrorist living in a country you’re running? [/QUOTE] It’s _worse_ than that. We could have whacked Zarqawi _before_ we invaded Iraq, but didn’t, even though he was running a terrorist training camp in Iraq. Why didn’t we off him then? Well, despite the fact that Zarqawi was seeking bio and chem weapons, we (and by “we” i mean the drooling idiots who’ve gotten us into this mess) thought that whacking him would _undermine our case for invasion!_ :smack: By the time our forces made it to where Zarqawi’s camps were, he’d already packed up and relocated. (my source for this is Harry Shearer’s _Le Show_.) ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2006, 2:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sunday-morning-lies-cheney-and-rice/372182/83 "2006-09-16T14:25:34Z")
[QUOTE=Little Nemo] Wait a minute; the definition of being a “state sponser of terrorism” has been downgraded to having a terrorist living in a country you’re running? ? [/QUOTE] It’s even worse than that. Saddam wasn’t really running that part of the country, the northern no-fly zone. Zarqawi’s area was under our protection. ---
**Author:** ![Carol\_Stream](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c2a13f/32.png) [@Carol\_Stream](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Carol_Stream)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2006, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sunday-morning-lies-cheney-and-rice/372182/84 "2006-09-16T20:42:39Z")
[QUOTE=El\_Kabong] Sorry, I don’t follow. The OP has not attempted to argue that Mr. Cheney’s performance on _Meet the Press_ was only worth objecting to because Nixon once did something similar. You, on the other hand, apparently are seriously arguing that no one can legitimately object to Mr. Cheney’s behavior if someone from another political party has employed similar tactics at any time in the past, for any reason. You likewise have attempted to turn this discussion from one of Mr. Cheney’s possible malfeasance to one of Mrs. Clinton’s proven non-malfeasance. That is what I meant by irrelevance. [/QUOTE] Apparently, you’re reading a different OP. The OP brought up the “ghost of Nixon” in regards to Secretary Rice, not VP Cheney. Now, what does Mr. Nixon have to do with Ms. Rice? Abolutely nothing, as far as I can tell. Talk about irrelvant. Yet, it goes by unremarked upon, largely because of the bias inherent in this board. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2006, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sunday-morning-lies-cheney-and-rice/372182/85 "2006-10-07T17:28:41Z")
[QUOTE=Carol Stream] Hey, Dipshit, has it ever crossed your mind that nobody in the real world gives a rat’s ass about the loony lefty ideas that are regularly posted here? [/QUOTE] Newsflash: In the real world, [there are more of us than there are of you.](http://www.amazon.com/Emerging-Democratic-Majority-John-Judis/dp/0743254783/sr=8-1/qid=1160241761/ref=pd_bbs_1/104-2893944-9374300?ie=UTF8&s=books) ---
**Author:** ![Carol\_Stream](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c2a13f/32.png) [@Carol\_Stream](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Carol_Stream)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2006, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sunday-morning-lies-cheney-and-rice/372182/86 "2006-10-08T18:42:34Z")
[QUOTE=BrainGlutton] Newsflash: In the real world, [there are more of us than there are of you.](http://www.amazon.com/Emerging-Democratic-Majority-John-Judis/dp/0743254783/sr=8-1/qid=1160241761/ref=pd_bbs_1/104-2893944-9374300?ie=UTF8&s=books) [/QUOTE] I haven’t read the book, so I can’t comment much. But, the reviews indicate that the authors posit that there will be a Democrat Majority by 2008. Now, that didn’t happen in 2004. Shouldn’t we wait until the election in 2006 (and possibly '08) before citing that book as a fact in re: a Democrat Majority? ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2006, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sunday-morning-lies-cheney-and-rice/372182/87 "2006-10-09T21:08:42Z")
> [@Carol Stream](#): > > Now, that didn’t happen in 2004. Shouldn’t we wait until the election in 2006 (and possibly '08) before citing that book as a fact in re: a Democrat Majority? If facts are what you’re interested in, shouldn’t you revise your assertion that “nobody in the real world gives a rat’s ass about the loony [sic] lefty ideas that are regularly posted here”? Whether there are slightly more American Democrats than American Republicans, or slightly fewer, your statement is still wrong. In either case, there are in fact a lot of people in the real world who care about the sort of “lefty” ideas that are regularly discussed on these boards. ---
**Author:** ![Carol\_Stream](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c2a13f/32.png) [@Carol\_Stream](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Carol_Stream)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2006, 4:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sunday-morning-lies-cheney-and-rice/372182/88 "2006-10-10T04:09:16Z")
[QUOTE=Kimstu] If facts are what you’re interested in, shouldn’t you revise your assertion that “nobody in the real world gives a rat’s ass about the loony [sic] lefty ideas that are regularly posted here”? Whether there are slightly more American Democrats than American Republicans, or slightly fewer, your statement is still wrong. In either case, there are in fact a lot of people in the real world who care about the sort of “lefty” ideas that are regularly discussed on these boards. [/QUOTE] Yes, the Electorate is about equally divided. But nowhere near 1/2 of Americans, Democrat or Republican, believe in, or support, a lot of the “ideas” that are regularly discussed here. To wit: That President Bush is Evil Incarnate That Jesus is a cunt That American soldiers in Iraq should die That Hillary Rodham Clinton’s “I’ll take money away from you, and give it to others” is a good plan That the availability of abortion on demand is the best option That plural marriage is “just another lifestyle choice” That woman sperm exists So who are these “a lot of people in the real world” that believe this stuff? ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2006, 4:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sunday-morning-lies-cheney-and-rice/372182/89 "2006-10-10T04:24:43Z")
[QUOTE=elucidator] He hadn’t seen it? Jesus Fuck a Shit Souffle! He hadn’t _seen_ it? I believe that was Friday, yes? Today is Sunday and he hasn’t seen it. \*\*Does sacrificing babies to Moloch take two days? \*\* [/QUOTE] If you were a woman and single, I’d be proposing marriage based on that line alone. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2006, 4:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sunday-morning-lies-cheney-and-rice/372182/90 "2006-10-10T04:53:10Z")
Count your blessings. I have it on very good authority that I am insufferable. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2006, 4:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sunday-morning-lies-cheney-and-rice/372182/91 "2006-10-10T04:55:04Z")
[QUOTE=Carol Stream] Yes, the Electorate is about equally divided. But nowhere near 1/2 of Americans, Democrat or Republican, believe in, or support, a lot of the “ideas” that are regularly discussed here. To wit: That President Bush is Evil Incarnate [/quote] You seen his approval ratings lately? > [@](#): > > That Jesus is a cunt An opinion posited by precisely one poster on this board. > [@](#): > > That American soldiers in Iraq should die An opinion I’ve only seen from two posters here. One was the same guy as above, the other isn’t an American. > [@](#): > > That Hillary Rodham Clinton’s “I’ll take money away from you, and give it to others” is a good plan Enough people agree with it that she holds political office, and is spoken of as a potential presidential contender. > [@](#): > > That the availability of abortion on demand is the best option Actually, it’s ever-so-slightly more than one half in favor of that one, last I heard. > [@](#): > > That plural marriage is “just another lifestyle choice” Did you bother to read any of the threads we had recently on polyamory? While I’ll grant that we’ve got a disproportionate number of polyamorists, the reaction to the idea was contentious, to say the least. > [@](#): > > That woman sperm exists Figurative language, used by precisely one poster in the history of this board. > [@](#): > > So who are these “a lot of people in the real world” that believe this stuff? Congratulations, Mrs. Zogby, you’ve demonstrated that the SDMB holds a number of mainstream opinions, and has a small handful of kooks and extremists in a roughly equal proportion to the population at large. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2006, 5:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sunday-morning-lies-cheney-and-rice/372182/92 "2006-10-10T05:49:52Z")
[QUOTE=Carol Stream] That Hillary Rodham Clinton’s “I’ll take money away from you, and give it to others” is a good plan [/QUOTE] Her words, IIRC, were, “We’re going to take things away from you for the common good,” which is called taxation, which almost every national and local government in the world practices regardless of ideology. (Exceptions being governments like Saudi Arabia’s, which owns enough oilfields to make taxation unnecessary; and North Korea’s, which owns and operates the whole national economy anyway.) And yes, I’m sure far, far more than 50% of Americans support the system of taxation in principle, however resentful they might feel about paying their own. If HRC’s idea of taxation is more progressive and redistributive and soaking-the-rich than what we’ve got now, so much the better, and – well, I know of no polls but I’m guessing you would be surprised at how many Americans support **that.** ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2006, 6:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sunday-morning-lies-cheney-and-rice/372182/93 "2006-10-10T06:38:55Z")
[QUOTE=Carol Stream] That Jesus is a cunt [/QUOTE] [QUOTE=Miller] An opinion posited by precisely one poster on this board. [/QUOTE] [QUOTE=Carol Stream] That American soldiers in Iraq should die [/QUOTE] [QUOTE=Miller] An opinion I’ve only seen from two posters here. One was the same guy as above, the other isn’t an American. [/QUOTE] I think you’ve confused **badchad** (First quote) and\*\* Der Thris\*\*(Second Quote), in those 2 quotes. Note that more than just those 2 people hold that second opinion on the board, but I can only recall **badchad** as having the first _as stated_. Weird, to me. ---
**Author:** ![rjung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/45deac/32.png) [@rjung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjung)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2006, 7:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sunday-morning-lies-cheney-and-rice/372182/94 "2006-10-10T07:00:19Z")
[QUOTE=Carol Stream] So who are these “a lot of people in the real world” that believe this stuff? [/QUOTE] The teeming hordes of evil godless liburals who are festering in Bill O’Reilly’s imagination? Primus knows there aren’t folks like that in the _real_ world. ---
**Author:** ![Carol\_Stream](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c2a13f/32.png) [@Carol\_Stream](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Carol_Stream)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2006, 1:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sunday-morning-lies-cheney-and-rice/372182/95 "2006-10-11T01:37:11Z")
[QUOTE=BrainGlutton] If HRC’s idea of taxation is more progressive and redistributive and soaking-the-rich than what we’ve got now, so much the better, and – well, I know of no polls but I’m guessing you would be surprised at how many Americans support **that.** [/QUOTE] Your recollection of HRC’s quote sounds correct; I couldn’t find a link. The idea that taxation should be more redistributive and soaking the rich, though, I take exception to. I don’t know of any polls either, and likely I would be surprised at how many Americans support that, but I still doubt it’s a majority of them. After all, if a majority of Americans did support more redistribution, wouldn’t we have enacted it by now? In fact, we’ve been moving away from the “more progressive taxation” gambit for almost 25 years now. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2006, 1:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sunday-morning-lies-cheney-and-rice/372182/96 "2006-10-11T01:49:22Z")
[QUOTE=Carol Stream] After all, if a majority of Americans did support more redistribution, wouldn’t we have enacted it by now? [/QUOTE] I’m sure you understand things are never that simple in a representative republican system. I’ve seen several polls showing a majority of Americans support universal health care, but . . . ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2006, 1:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sunday-morning-lies-cheney-and-rice/372182/97 "2006-10-11T01:56:11Z")
My memory isn’t clear on this, **Carol**. In which election did the voters pointedly reject progressive taxation? Was it the “Willie Horton’s Gonna Get Yo’ Mamma!” election, or the “George McGovern Is a Whining Weenie” election? ---
**Author:** ![Carol\_Stream](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c2a13f/32.png) [@Carol\_Stream](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Carol_Stream)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2006, 3:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sunday-morning-lies-cheney-and-rice/372182/98 "2006-10-11T03:32:57Z")
[QUOTE=BrainGlutton] I’m sure you understand things are never that simple in a representative republican system. I’ve seen several polls showing a majority of Americans support universal health care, but . . . [/QUOTE] Well, you can claim that a majority of Americans agree with you on the issues, whether it be more progressive taxation, or UHC, or “GWB is a weenie”, but if none of it has been enacted, (taxes are lower and flatter, there is no UHC, and GWB was elected twice), that seems a rather hollow victory, does it not? ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2006, 2:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sunday-morning-lies-cheney-and-rice/372182/99 "2006-10-11T14:36:35Z")
[QUOTE=Carol Stream] Well, you can claim that a majority of Americans agree with you on the issues, whether it be more progressive taxation, or UHC, or “GWB is a weenie”, but if none of it has been enacted, (taxes are lower and flatter, there is no UHC, and GWB was elected twice), that seems a rather hollow victory, does it not? [/QUOTE] I don’t recall claiming victory on any of those issues. The point is that it is either mistaken or dishonest for you to dismiss this or any “left-wing circle-jerk” as marginal or irrelevant to America’s Teeming Millions. **Communists** are marginal and irrelevant, but you, like most Pubs nowadays, seem to be using the term “left-wing” to encompass anyone and anything to the left of the Democratic Leadership Council. In fact, you seem to regard HRC, of all people, as a leftist, so maybe you’re **including** the DLC. :rolleyes: Let me clue you in: Leftism, so defined, is not irrelevant or marginal. ---
**Author:** ![Carol\_Stream](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c2a13f/32.png) [@Carol\_Stream](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Carol_Stream)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2006, 4:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sunday-morning-lies-cheney-and-rice/372182/100 "2006-10-12T04:30:55Z")
[QUOTE=BrainGlutton] Let me clue you in: Leftism, so defined, is not irrelevant or marginal. [/QUOTE] Neither does Leftism constitute a majority of the body politic as you seemed to claim in post # 85, when you said: > [@](#): > > there are more of us than there are of you [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sunday-morning-lies-cheney-and-rice/372182.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sunday-morning-lies-cheney-and-rice/372182.md?page=6)