# Sunday Morning Lies: Cheney and Rice **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [September 10, 2006, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sunday-morning-lies-cheney-and-rice/372182 "2006-09-10T17:36:46Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 10\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2006, 5:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sunday-morning-lies-cheney-and-rice/372182/101 "2006-10-12T05:07:38Z")
**Carol** , honey, I think you need to make up your mind exactly what you mean when you say “lefty” or “liberal”. “Jesus is a cunt” is not a liberal idea; in fact, the vast majority of American liberals are Christians. Nor do liberals in general want American soldiers in Iraq to die. And AFAIK, the alleged existence of “woman sperm”, whatever that’s supposed to be, is unrelated to politics. There **are** , on the other hand, lots of Americans in real life who support genuinely liberal ideas like the progressive tax system and a woman’s right to choose an abortion. So basically, the problem with your attempted argument is that the “ideas” in your list that are loony aren’t specifically liberal, and the ones that are genuinely liberal aren’t loony. > [@Carol Stream](#): > > Neither does Leftism constitute a majority of the body politic as you seemed to claim in post # 85, when you said: “there are more of us than there are of you” Again, you have to explain how you define Leftism (and you have to have a more coherent definition than just “all the stuff that I don’t like and think is loony”) before you can know whether such a statement is valid. If you’re equating it with party identification—where “Leftist=Democrat” and “Rightist=Republican”—then in fact, it’s quite true “there are more of us [Leftists] than there are of you [Rightists]”, though the [margin is slim](http://www.emergingdemocraticmajorityweblog.com/donkeyrising/archives/001162.php): > [@](#): > > At present, the American electorate is almost evenly divided in its partisan loyalties: in the 2004 American National Election Study (ANES), 32 percent of American adults identified with the Democratic Party while 29 percent identified with the Republican Party. By the way, you also seem to be a bit confused about the definition of “majority”. “There are more of us than there are of you” means that “we” have a **plurality** (or “relative majority”), not that “we” actually constitute “a majority of the body politic”, i.e., more than 50% of it. **BrainGlutton** was quite right in noting that there are more Democrats than Republicans, but he did not claim that Democrats actually constitute a majority (more than half) of the entire population. ---
**Author:** ![Carol\_Stream](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c2a13f/32.png) [@Carol\_Stream](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Carol_Stream)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2006, 4:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sunday-morning-lies-cheney-and-rice/372182/102 "2006-10-13T04:53:53Z")
[QUOTE=Kimstu] By the way, you also seem to be a bit confused about the definition of “majority”. “There are more of us than there are of you” means that “we” have a **plurality** (or “relative majority”), not that “we” actually constitute “a majority of the body politic”, i.e., more than 50% of it. **BrainGlutton** was quite right in noting that there are more Democrats than Republicans, but he did not claim that Democrats actually constitute a majority (more than half) of the entire population. [/QUOTE] **Kimstu** , darling, The defintion of “plurality” is, and I quote, “more than half of the whole, a majority”. So what is this weasling about a “relative majority”? OTOH, another definition of “plurality” is, well, more than one. So I will give you that. There is more than one liberal in the U.S. Do you really think that “more than half” of Americans are liberals? If so, do post evidence of such. Otherwise, :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2006, 5:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sunday-morning-lies-cheney-and-rice/372182/103 "2006-10-13T05:42:38Z")
Observe the numbers cited in the Emerging Democratic Majority quote in **Kimstu** ’s post (#101). More people identify as Democrats than as Republicans, though neither number reaches 50%+1 of the population. That, as most middle schoolers who paid attention in math class could explain, is what constitutes a **plurality** – a number which is larger than the number(s) to which it is compared but which does not necessarily constitute a majority. If 14 people prefer bananas, 12 apples, and 4 oranges, bananas take a plurality but not a majority in that preference poll. Mr. Bush arguably outpolled Mr. Kerry in 2004 – but that does not apply to today’s overall party preference – or, arguably, what it will be in November or in 2008. And, to second **Kimstu** ’s point, you might consider removing your blinders and find out what people who identify as liberal or progressive actually **do** think about issues. You seem to be confuting anything you dislike ever advocated by any one person here with the views of all liberals, and then denouncing them. And Ray Bolger has been dead for several years, so he won’t dance to that tune. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2006, 6:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sunday-morning-lies-cheney-and-rice/372182/104 "2006-10-13T06:14:49Z")
[QUOTE=Carol Stream] **Kimstu** , darling, The defintion of “plurality” is, and I quote, “more than half of the whole, a majority”. [/quote] Is it? Do you? I wonder if I might trouble you to reveal what it is you’re quoting from. A link to the document in question would be appreciated. I’ll show you mine: [Merriam-Webster Online](http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?book=Dictionary&va=plurality) > [@](#): > > 1 a : the state of being plural b : the state of being numerous c : a large number or quantity > 2 : PLURALISM 1; also : a benefice held by pluralism > 3 a : a number greater than another b : an excess of votes over those cast for an opposing candidate c : a number of votes cast for a candidate in a contest of more than two candidates that is greater than the number cast for any other candidate but not more than half the total votes cast Here’s another: [American Heritage Dictionary (via Yahoo! Education)](http://education.yahoo.com/reference/dictionary/entry/plurality) > [@](#): > > 1.The state or fact of being plural. > 2. A large number or amount; a multitude. > 3. _Ecclesiastical_ > a. Pluralism. > b. The offices or benefices held by a pluralist. > > 1. a. In a contest of more than two choices, the number of votes cast for the winning choice if this number is not more than one half of the total votes cast. > b. The number by which the vote of the winning choice in such a contest exceeds that of the closest opponent. > 2. The larger or greater part. Let’s see if Google has anything under “define pluralty.” Oh, look! It does! [Dictionary.net](http://www.dictionary.net/plurality) > [@](#): > > 1. The state of being plural, or consisting of more than one; a number consisting of two or more of the same kind; as, a plurality of worlds; the plurality of a verb. > > 2. The greater number; a majority; also, the greatest of several numbers; in elections, the excess of the votes given for one candidate over those given for another, or for any other, candidate. When there are more than two candidates, the one who receives the plurality of votes may have less than a majority. See Majority. > > Take the plurality of the world, and they are neither wise nor good. --L’Estrange. > > 1. (Eccl.) See Plurality of benefices, below. > > Plurality of benefices (Eccl.), the possession by one clergyman of more than one benefice or living. Each benefice thus held is called a plurality. [Eng.] [The Free Online Dictionary](http://www.thefreedictionary.com/plurality) > [@](#): > > 1. The state or fact of being plural. > 2. A large number or amount; a multitude. > 3. Ecclesiastical > a. Pluralism. > b. The offices or benefices held by a pluralist. > 4. > > a. In a contest of more than two choices, the number of votes cast for the winning choice if this number is not more than one half of the total votes cast. > b. The number by which the vote of the winning choice in such a contest exceeds that of the closest opponent. > 5. The larger or greater part. Not a single one of these so much as suggests that a plurality is greater than 50% of anything. > [@Carol Stream](#): > > So what is this weasling about a “relative majority”? Y’know, I don’t see _ **Kimstu** weasling_ quite so much as _ **Carol Stream** pulling things out of her ass_, here. > [@Carol Stream](#): > > OTOH, another definition of “plurality” is, well, more than one. So I will give you that. There is more than one liberal in the U.S. Big of you. > [@Carol Stream](#): > > Do you really think that “more than half” of Americans are liberals? If so, do post evidence of such. Otherwise, :rolleyes: :rolleyes: yourself, dearie. Unless you’d like to favor us with cite to a definition of plurality (other than the one you appear to have just made up) that defines it as greater than half. Saunter in here with that, and I’ll take your rolleyes and apologize to you for my cheek on top of it. Meanwhile, just because I’m so cocksure of myself: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: 😃 ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2006, 1:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sunday-morning-lies-cheney-and-rice/372182/105 "2006-10-13T13:27:51Z")
[QUOTE=Carol Stream] Neither does Leftism constitute a majority of the body politic as you seemed to claim in post # 85, when you said: [/QUOTE] Depends, again, on how you define “leftism.” There are more registered Dems than Pubs, have been for a long time. To divide it more finely than that, your best source is the Pew Political Typology. See [and [url=http://people-press.org/reports/display.php3?PageID=949]here](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=7537568&postcount=50). By that analysis, the groupings on the “left” or Dem-leaning side total 44% of registered voters (but that includes the Conservative Democrats), those on the “right” side total 33%. ---
**Author:** ![Carol\_Stream](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c2a13f/32.png) [@Carol\_Stream](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Carol_Stream)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2006, 3:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sunday-morning-lies-cheney-and-rice/372182/106 "2006-10-14T03:42:46Z")
[QUOTE=kaylasdad99] Is it? Do you? I wonder if I might trouble you to reveal what it is you’re quoting from. A link to the document in question would be appreciated… Unless you’d like to favor us with cite to a definition of plurality (other than the one you appear to have just made up) that defines it as greater than half. Saunter in here with that, and I’ll take your rolleyes and apologize to you for my cheek on top of it… [/QUOTE] See definition #2. Also note that definition #1 says that “plurality” is distinguished from “majority”. [http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/plurality](http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/plurality) I’m waiting for that apology. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2006, 4:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sunday-morning-lies-cheney-and-rice/372182/107 "2006-10-14T04:34:51Z")
[QUOTE=Carol Stream] See definition #2. Also note that definition #1 says that “plurality” is distinguished from “majority”. [http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/plurality](http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/plurality) I’m waiting for that apology. [/QUOTE] In politics, “plurality” generally is taken to mean “The largest share of votes but not the majority.” You know, the #1 definition. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2006, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sunday-morning-lies-cheney-and-rice/372182/108 "2006-10-14T18:24:03Z")
[QUOTE=Carol Stream] See definition #2. Also note that definition #1 says that “plurality” is distinguished from “majority”. [http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/plurality](http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/plurality) I’m waiting for that apology. [/QUOTE] And you shall have it. **Carol Stream** , please forgive me for the impudence I demonstrated when I implied that you would not be able to find a definition for plurality that defined it as a majority. My tone was disrespectful, not merely to your argument, but to you personally. I did know that by implying that you were making up definitions and “pulling things out of [your] ass”, I was doing it to be mean, rather than merely providing support for my definitions being superior to yours. I was wrong to treat you that way, and I offer no excuses. I will attempt, in the future to exercise better control over my baser impulses. You may now roll your eyes at me, if you are so inclined. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2006, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sunday-morning-lies-cheney-and-rice/372182/109 "2006-10-14T18:30:17Z")
A promise is a promise, after all. Now that **Carol Stream** and I have both posted apologies, perhaps we can get back to verbally abusing members of the current administration. ---
**Author:** ![Carol\_Stream](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c2a13f/32.png) [@Carol\_Stream](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Carol_Stream)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2006, 11:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sunday-morning-lies-cheney-and-rice/372182/110 "2006-10-14T23:05:54Z")
**kaylasdad99** Thank you, apology accepted. My apologies, too, for impudent use of the roll-eyes. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sunday-morning-lies-cheney-and-rice/372182.md?page=5)