# "Sunlight Before Signing" **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [April 28, 2009, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sunlight-before-signing/494662 "2009-04-28T19:56:30Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 9\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2009, 11:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sunlight-before-signing/494662/41 "2009-04-30T23:01:23Z")
> [@Fish](#): > > Technology is not the problem. That the law has not kept up with technology is. Thanks–my ass is all smoky now :). (Seriously, you raise some interesting possibilities. I have no idea if they’re right, but before your post I couldn’t imagine what COULD be legit reasons for not fulfilling the promise). **Bricker** , I didn’t know that his original promise exempted emergency legislation. Given that, I think he ought to say clearly that certain things qualified, clarifying that in this context, “emergency” means “non-trivial harm will result by adding a 5-day delay to the process.” ---
**Author:** ![Grumman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/43a26b/32.png) [@Grumman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grumman)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2009, 11:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sunlight-before-signing/494662/42 "2009-04-30T23:29:07Z")
> [@Fish](#): > > Must the HTML code be released as part of the Freedom of Information Act, or is the webpage alone sufficient? The HTML code is always released unless you’re using something like Flash or Java - it’s what your browser uses to show you the webpage in the first place. > [@](#): > > Must the information be proofread, must it be vetted by national security wonks, must it be organized? Isn’t proofreading the sort of thing you do _before_ you sign a bill into law? The bills are already organised, and bills are already permitted to be made available to the public. > [@](#): > > Are the original documents in a compatible format? They’re plain text - how could they _not_ be in a compatible format? > [@](#): > > Are they available electronically? Must someone type them in by hand? Yes, they are already available electronically. > [@](#): > > Where does the budget come from? Who releases the money for making the technical upgrades, who hires the staff, what kind of security clearance will he need? Who pays his salary? Who’s going to make sure the website is secure against hacker attack? How many separate departments must be made to march in the same direction before this change can be made? As **Simplicio** says, the White House website already exists. You’d need someone to read the comments, but apart from that the infrastructure is already in place. **Fish** , _none_ of your suggested problems make the slightest bit of sense. ---
**Author:** ![Alienhand](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8edcca/32.png) [@Alienhand](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alienhand)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2009, 12:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sunlight-before-signing/494662/43 "2009-05-01T00:07:08Z")
What’s the liability of hate speech? Threats between posters? Are any comments endorsed by the White House by simply being on [whitehouse.gov](http://whitehouse.gov)? If you moderate it, is that a violation of free speech? what happens when a group floods it? Given that the White House had their peepee slapped on the weekly radio address (persistent cookies) in the first few weeks, perhaps when they trialed the functionality with the DTV delay bill they found problems and staff are little shy to whip it out again until they’re sure. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2009, 1:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sunlight-before-signing/494662/44 "2009-05-01T01:42:44Z")
> [@](#): > > You don’t have the slightest idea how easy it would be. I know that I could do it. And my computer skills are seriously limited. But if President Obama handed me a copy of The Lilly Ledbetter Fair Pay Act of 2009 and told me to have it available online within twenty four hours, I could get it done. ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2009, 7:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sunlight-before-signing/494662/45 "2009-05-01T07:51:11Z")
> [@DSYoungEsq](#): > > The answer to the OP is simple: they’ve not yet implemented this promise, but are working on it. It has technical aspects that prevent the President from simply saying: “I’m waiting five days from when you put this up to have a signing ceremony.” So not a promise broken, just one not fulfilled yet. Bills are already uploaded to Thomas, as someone said. If there was a problem with the White House web site the President could simply have his people redirect voters to the other sources of the legislation’s text and delay signing for 5 days. Why is it so hard for some people to admit Obama isn’t doing it because he just simply doesn’t think it is good policy to wait 5 days before signing important legislation? It was an obviously empty campaign promise and not one that most people cared about. ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2009, 7:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sunlight-before-signing/494662/46 "2009-05-01T07:52:23Z")
> [@Jophiel](#): > > Maybe I’ve been hearing too much about CNN and Blitzer’s demands for letter grades from everyone but do you mean “I’d give him a 60-65%” as “He’s doing somewhat better than worse” or “I’d give him a low D”? > > I have no problem admitting that Obama is a politican. I wouldn’t say “at his core” because it gives the impression that he cares primarily about getting elected moreso than the office itself and what he can accomplish for the nation. That’s not a charge I’d level at most of our elected officials, Democrat or Republican. I’m disappointed that he hasn’t followed through on the 5-Day window and hope it’s delayed rather than discarded but, until it happens, I’ll be willing to say that it’s a disappointment. I approve more than I disapprove–the Presidency isn’t High School English literature. ---
**Author:** ![sleestak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/919ad9/32.png) [@sleestak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sleestak)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2009, 8:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sunlight-before-signing/494662/47 "2009-05-01T08:02:25Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > He hasn’t abandoned it, he’s implementing it. > > You don’t have the slightest idea how easy it would be. I do. I built a network from the ground up last summer. Took about two months. We are talking punching down all the cable, pulling the 70 or so servers out of the boxes and building them, configuring routers, firewalls, configuring and installing a couple hundred PCs and 150 or so POS stations. We built a fairly complex network with 20 [VLans](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VLAN)that is much more complex than a bunch of web servers since we have all different kinds of departments to support. Even if the Obama White House technical staff had to start from scratch this is fairly trivial\*. We built a network with a core team of four people and did it in a very short period of time, though we did pull some really long days. If the White House technical staff can’t hack it, they could always call a vendor and get it done. This is not particularly hard. Slee \*The biggest thing I can think of that might cause a delay would be if they had drop fiber somewhere. If that was a problem they could always get space in a co-lo. Heck I bet the government has co-los that could be used. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2009, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sunlight-before-signing/494662/48 "2009-05-03T22:57:36Z")
> [@tumbleddown](#): > > There were more than a few stories about staffers not having computers at their desks, or having major interoperability problems (because they came into a Windowsified government with private sector Macs) for more than three weeks after inauguration day. Sounds like a technical reason to me! You’re missing my point. That may explain a delay in getting them up, but not in waiting five days _after_ they’re up. If I we’re Obama and I made that promise, I think it would be a simple decision to start the clock for five days—whenever they’re posted. ---
**Author:** ![Kimmy\_Gibbler](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Kimmy\_Gibbler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimmy_Gibbler)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2009, 11:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sunlight-before-signing/494662/49 "2009-05-03T23:45:06Z")
> [@Martin\_Hyde](#): > > Bills are already uploaded to Thomas, as _ **someone** _ said. If there was a problem with the White House web site the President could simply have his people redirect voters to the other sources of the legislation’s text and delay signing for 5 days. > > _ **Why is it so hard for some people to admit Obama isn’t doing it because he just simply doesn’t think it is good policy to wait 5 days before signing important legislation? It was an obviously empty campaign promise and not one that most people cared about.** _ [emphasis mine] Heavens! I don’t know why I post here if I’m just going to be glossed as “someone” saying “something.” Anyway, I think I called it empty rhetoric and abandoned promise above. And moreover, it’s not causing me to lose any sleep. So, ha ha, eat it, haters!! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sunlight-before-signing/494662.md?page=2)