# 'Sup? Home, or Holmes? \[Slang term\] **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [February 7, 2015, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sup-home-or-holmes-slang-term/712043 "2015-02-07T15:13:53Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2015, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sup-home-or-holmes-slang-term/712043/1 "2015-02-07T15:13:53Z")
In urban slang, a close friend – especially/usually someone from your neighbourhood – is a ‘homeboy’ or ‘homie’. That is, someone from your home. In the '80s I heard people say ‘What up, Home?’ That is, one person is greeting a close friend or someone from his home turf. ‘Greetings, Good Friend From My Home! How are things with you?’ In this case, ‘Home’ is short for ‘homeboy’. More recently, I read posts by people who say ‘What up, Holmes?’ I don’t see a connection between ‘Holmes’ and ‘homie’/‘homeboy’, other than that they sound similar. Inasmuch as the phrase is still being used, which version are the kids using today? ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2015, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sup-home-or-holmes-slang-term/712043/2 "2015-02-07T15:27:28Z")
> **[Urban Dictionary, December 4: Sniffari](https://www.urbandictionary.com/)** > > Combination of the words "sniff" and "safari". It occurs when your dog wants to take up the entire day to sniff every blade of grass in the neighborhood on their walk. > [@](#): > > Top Definition > Holmes > Gangster slang. What you would call a good friend, a stranger, or even mockery against an adversary. > > Was`sup, holmes. > You got a problem with it, holmes? ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2015, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sup-home-or-holmes-slang-term/712043/3 "2015-02-07T15:38:36Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > [Urbandictionary.com](http://Urbandictionary.com) I don’t see the quoted text in that link. [Urbandictionary](http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=homes) also says: > [@](#): > > TOP DEFINITION > homes > > a term used to describe a friend or person you know. > _What up homes? Que pase homes?_ ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2015, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sup-home-or-holmes-slang-term/712043/4 "2015-02-07T15:45:16Z")
I think it’s homes. I can remember it used to be home slice and I think it just got shortened to one syllable with the s being the only part of slice that survived. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2015, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sup-home-or-holmes-slang-term/712043/5 "2015-02-07T15:48:57Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > I think it’s homes. I can remember it used to be home slice and I think it just got shortened to one syllable with the s being the only part of slice that survived. That’s how I remember it as well, only ‘homeboy’. And now I’ve been reminded of ‘home slice’. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2015, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sup-home-or-holmes-slang-term/712043/6 "2015-02-07T15:51:20Z")
Do we suppose there’s any connection in the slang to the idea that Sherlock Holmes was super smart and arrogant about it? Given that brains is probably not exactly a valued commodity amongst gangsters? By comparison: I know at least a few police departments’ internal slang use “Einstein” to refer to some of their regular “customers”. It’s a satiric statement about most criminals’ amazing (lack of) intellect. > [@e.g.](#): > > Cop #1: Hi Bob, how was your shift? > > Cop #2: Samo-samo there Bill. I got to a burglary call and there was Einstein climbing out the living room window with a TV under his arm. ---
**Author:** ![Lare](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/53a042/32.png) [@Lare](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lare)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2015, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sup-home-or-holmes-slang-term/712043/7 "2015-02-07T15:54:37Z")
I always heard it as “homes.” Except for when Dr. Watson was trying to be street, of course. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2015, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sup-home-or-holmes-slang-term/712043/8 "2015-02-07T16:28:22Z")
> [@Johnny\_L.A](#): > > I don’t see the quoted text in that link. [Does this work](http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Holmes)? ---
**Author:** ![Leo\_Bloom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leo_bloom/32/10377_2.png) [@Leo\_Bloom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leo_Bloom)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2015, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sup-home-or-holmes-slang-term/712043/9 "2015-02-07T16:35:13Z")
Just for the record, and this being SD and all, OP phrase in question is Black lower-class slang from some 40 years ago. Does P.C. require no mention of ethnicity or other ID unless it’s in the context of expressing solidarity with injustices or reclaiming something wonderfully fantabulous? “Urban” since I don’t know how long has been the P.C.–actually, a plain old euphemism, way before “P.C.” was developed as a term by the Left–meaning almost always African-American lower class. JFTR. I’m not picking a fight with OP or starting up some language/politics thing. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2015, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sup-home-or-holmes-slang-term/712043/10 "2015-02-07T17:12:52Z")
> [@Leo\_Bloom](#): > > Just for the record, and this being SD and all, OP phrase in question is Black lower-class slang from some 40 years ago. The OP phrase in question is “'Sup? Holmes”, which is not 40 years old as far as I can tell. Nor is there proof or even evidence that it is black or urban or lower-class or from any particular subculture. So why should he mention any of those things? ---
**Author:** ![Grotonian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c2a13f/32.png) [@Grotonian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grotonian)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2015, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sup-home-or-holmes-slang-term/712043/11 "2015-02-07T18:29:09Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > The OP phrase in question is “'Sup? Holmes”, which is not 40 years old as far as I can tell. Nor is there proof or even evidence that it is black or urban or lower-class or from any particular subculture. So why should he mention any of those things? Well, it was used in the movie, _ **Colors** _ in 1988. That’s 27 years, not 40, but that’s the first time I remember it. It’s probably older. It was definitely portrayed as minority, under-class slang. No one in my neighborhood said it, and I don’t remember it in other movies I saw in that era, such as **Heathers,Can’t Buy Me Love, Big, Beaches, Cocktail, or Working Girl.** I don’t know why that’s relevant, either, unless it helps establish etymology. The first time I distinctly heard, “Holmes,” as opposed to, “Homes,” was a sorority girl at Michigan State who kept calling her dorm, very affectedly, “I live in ‘WHA’S UP HOLMES?’ Hall.” That was mid-90’s. (The dorm was Holmes Hall.) ---
**Author:** ![Grotonian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c2a13f/32.png) [@Grotonian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grotonian)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2015, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sup-home-or-holmes-slang-term/712043/12 "2015-02-07T18:45:08Z")
I should clarify, **Colors** uses “Homes”, not “Home”, or “Holmes”; according to the IMDB. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2015, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sup-home-or-holmes-slang-term/712043/13 "2015-02-07T19:03:32Z")
In the 80s, I personally remember it as “Holmes,” not “homes.” It is possible I just always heard and said it incorrectly, but that’s what I always thought it was. The second post in [this offsite thread](http://bdwf.net/forum/showthread.php?t=73574) seems to corroborate my memory, at least regarding the singular usage. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2015, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sup-home-or-holmes-slang-term/712043/14 "2015-02-07T19:12:16Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > The OP phrase in question is “'Sup? Holmes”, which is not 40 years old as far as I can tell. Nor is there proof or even evidence that it is black or urban or lower-class or from any particular subculture. So why should he mention any of those things? I said '80s, not 40 years. I moved to L.A. in 1987. My evidence is personal experience. L.A. is an urban environment. I mostly heard the word used by Black people, but I also heard it used by White people. I don’t recall any particular individual’s socio-economic class. Why would I mention it? Context. If I asked, ‘Hey, which is it? “Homes”, or “Holmes”?’, no one would know what I’m talking about. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2015, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sup-home-or-holmes-slang-term/712043/15 "2015-02-07T19:13:45Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > In the 80s, I personally remember it as “Holmes,” not “homes.” It is possible I just always heard and said it incorrectly, but that’s what I always thought it was. The second post in [this offsite thread](http://bdwf.net/forum/showthread.php?t=73574) seems to corroborate my memory, at least regarding the singular usage. Possible, though we’ve often seen that putting times to things we remember is iffy, at best. That forum is a wonderful advertisement for why so many of us want to keep the Dope as pure words. Word up, Holmes. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2015, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sup-home-or-holmes-slang-term/712043/16 "2015-02-07T19:31:36Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > Possible, though we’ve often seen that putting times to things we remember is iffy, at best. Sure. I know for certain that is how I said it. I guess 1990 would be at the earliest definite time marker I have, because I sang the Fresh Prince of Bel Air Song with the lyric “Yo Holmes, smell you later.” What is uncertain, though, is whether I was mishearing it and whether this was just a quirk of pronunciation for me. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2015, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sup-home-or-holmes-slang-term/712043/17 "2015-02-07T19:38:27Z")
There is an instance of it being used [in 1978](https://www.google.com/search?q=%22what+up+holmes%22&btnG=Search+Books&tbm=bks&tbo=1&gws_rd=ssl#tbs=cdr:1%2Ccd_min:1900%2Ccd_max:1999&tbm=bks&q=%22hey+holmes%22+-sherlock) in the Low Rider journal citation: > [@](#): > > “Hey, holmes, why don’t you tell me about the old days. Tell me about your compa, and tell me about the home country. How was it in Mexico, back in those days?” ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2015, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sup-home-or-holmes-slang-term/712043/18 "2015-02-07T19:47:23Z")
> [@Johnny\_L.A](#): > > I said '80s, not 40 years. I moved to L.A. in 1987. Leo Bloom is the one who said 40 years. I was responding to him. ---
**Author:** ![Leo\_Bloom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leo_bloom/32/10377_2.png) [@Leo\_Bloom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leo_Bloom)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2015, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sup-home-or-holmes-slang-term/712043/19 "2015-02-07T21:40:20Z")
Hi dudes, \*\*Leo \*\*here. I might have gotten the dates wrong, but this is how I remember it–and can add another kindred word to OP. Anecdotal, as is, of course, my dating/memory of those. And the words first in Black slang being used by whites is nothing special at all. “’'Sup ma niggahs?”–even a Brit suburban white thought that was cool enough to say in the (great) movie _Sean the Dead_from some years ago. Over the century, from The Jazz Age to hip hop (and gangsta talk within it, and the word itself), the cultural vectors are easily apparent. FWIW, I can only say I remember those words from about the same time and the reason when my childhood friend started calling each other “Slick,” as in “Yo, Slick,” which we still do face-to-face or in email. It stems from when we were in high school, grad 1976-77, we saw a very funny (at least then–haven’t seen it since) movie called, I think, _Kentucky Fried Movie_, with–if it was that movie–barely-connected skits. (I think.) Stuck in my head is a scene of a ghetto prostitute (the word used be before “urban,” and still sometimes now, less euphemistic and more judgemental than “urban,” but referring to the same culture–one that says homey, for example. But anyway, that was a side comment above.) She was hurrying along and setting straight a completely non-plussed fumbling middle-class white guy, name unknown to her. Not sure if she was supposed to be a tranny hooker as well, or was played in obvious drag by one of the actors. It was funny, then at least, not the least for her radically different language and accent. And perhaps you’re right, and it doesn’t track chronologically with “Holmes,” etc., except in my head. ---
**Author:** ![vomit\_comet](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/73ab20/32.png) [@vomit\_comet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vomit_comet)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2015, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sup-home-or-holmes-slang-term/712043/20 "2015-02-07T22:05:21Z")
It’s Hommes, actually… as in Man, in French. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sup-home-or-holmes-slang-term/712043.md?page=2)