# 'Sup? Home, or Holmes? \[Slang term\] **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [February 7, 2015, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sup-home-or-holmes-slang-term/712043 "2015-02-07T15:13:53Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 19\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2015, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sup-home-or-holmes-slang-term/712043/41 "2015-02-09T21:27:45Z")
> [@Sailboat](#): > > For what it’s worth, I heard this a lot and even saw it spelled out a few times and it was always “homes,” a standard shortening of “homeboy.” There was never any implication of Sherlock Holmes, and I would be startled if the people using this term thought much about Arthur Conan Doyle’s _oeuvre_. I tbink thisis likely to be classic false etymology. There can certainly be parallel etymologies or simultaneously being two forms. Like I said, I heard “Holmes” in the 80s, and I’ve provided a written cite for “holmes” as early as the late 70s. To me, it looks like the “homes” form was probably the earlier one, and then sometime in the 70s, the “holmes” variation cropped up. When I hear “holmes,” I think of Latino subculture. “Homes,” African-American subculture. ---
**Author:** ![steronz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steronz/32/11765_2.png) [@steronz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/steronz)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2015, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sup-home-or-holmes-slang-term/712043/42 "2015-02-09T22:06:54Z")
As suburban white kids calling each other “Holmes” in the 90s, my friends and I debated the origins. We decided that it must somehow be related to John Holmes, but Google is devoid of any evidence of that. Circumstantially, he may have been a household name around the time the term caught on (early 70s). ---
**Author:** ![vomit\_comet](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/73ab20/32.png) [@vomit\_comet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vomit_comet)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2015, 5:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sup-home-or-holmes-slang-term/712043/43 "2015-02-10T05:15:01Z")
Back in the eighties a buddy said to me “hey hommes”. I said WTF did you just call me and he said “hommes, its French for Man.” ---
**Author:** ![MrAtoz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@MrAtoz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrAtoz)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2015, 2:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sup-home-or-holmes-slang-term/712043/44 "2015-02-10T14:15:58Z")
> [@Sailboat](#): > > For what it’s worth, I heard this a lot and even saw it spelled out a few times and it was always “homes,” a standard shortening of “homeboy.” There was never any implication of Sherlock Holmes, and I would be startled if the people using this term thought much about Arthur Conan Doyle’s _oeuvre_. I tbink thisis likely to be classic false etymology. This story should really burnish my “White and Nerdy” cred. 🙂 The first time I encountered this particular slang was in college, and one guy in our social group (he was from Chicago, if I remember right), tended to call us “homes.” At the time, being completely unfamiliar with the term, I heard it as “Holmes.” So I started responding by calling him “Watson,” all the while wondering why we had suddenly adopted this weird Sherlock Holmes role-playing thing. Eventually he explained what he was really saying. This would have been in the late 1980s. So I can completely believe the theory that it started as “homes,” and morphed into “Holmes” among some people, either through mis-hearing or as a deliberate joke. Because that’s exactly what happened to me. ---
**Author:** ![VernonFlorida](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/vernonflorida/32/3267_2.png) [@VernonFlorida](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VernonFlorida)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2020, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sup-home-or-holmes-slang-term/712043/45 "2020-01-30T18:10:35Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > There can certainly be parallel etymologies or simultaneously being two forms. Like I said, I heard “Holmes” in the 80s, and I’ve provided a written cite for “holmes” as early as the late 70s. To me, it looks like the “homes” form was probably the earlier one, and then sometime in the 70s, the “holmes” variation cropped up. When I hear “holmes,” I think of Latino subculture. “Homes,” African-American subculture. This seems the most likely scenario to me. The only real cultural connection to “Holmes” is Sherlock, and that seems highly unlikely for a black/Latino gang-related phrase from the 1970s. If anything it’s just a lexical shift. We see these all the time, especially with slang phrases that start out unwritten, and then shift when people start writing them down. I have a two-part theory for how this shift from “homes” to “holmes” may have occurred. Since “homes” is not related to any common English name, I can easily see someone (especially from outside the communities of origin) hearing it, and then parsing it as “Holmes.” I think accent may play a role too. Some so-Cal Latino folks, have a different “o” sound in “homes” than say, a white midwesterner, or east coast dweller. To my ear it’s more like a round-mouthed “ohh” than a purse-lipped “owe.” I can see that “ohh” sound being mistaken for the vowel sound in “Holmes” as opposed to “homes.” Of course no one thinks about these things, but one person does it, maybe somewhere influential, and since “homes” was not originally something that was written down, the variant sticks. Eventually even people using it in the communities of origin may think of it as “holmes” or even start to pronounce the silent “l” a bit. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2020, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sup-home-or-holmes-slang-term/712043/46 "2020-01-30T18:35:50Z")
Title edited to better indicate subject. Colibri General Questions Moderator ---
**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Chance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jonathan_chance/32/701_2.png) [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2020, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sup-home-or-holmes-slang-term/712043/47 "2020-01-30T19:09:13Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > The OP phrase in question is “'Sup? Holmes”, which is not 40 years old as far as I can tell. Nor is there proof or even evidence that it is black or urban or lower-class or from any particular subculture. So why should he mention any of those things? Growing up in Los Angeles I would have said that, back in the 80s, ‘Homey’ or ‘Homeboy’ was something I heard the African-American kids in high school us. ‘Holmes’, on the other hand, was more of a Latino thing. It was definitely out there on the street by 1985 in SoCal. ---
**Author:** ![sitchensis](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sitchensis/32/4892_2.png) [@sitchensis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sitchensis)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2020, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sup-home-or-holmes-slang-term/712043/48 "2020-01-30T19:26:16Z")
To my ear, hombre can sometimes have an added L like almbre. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2020, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sup-home-or-holmes-slang-term/712043/49 "2020-01-30T19:45:55Z")
I’m a little bit confused by this thread in that I, and I’m pretty sure Will Smith, would pronounce “homes” and “Holmes“ identically, the latter having no /l/ sound in it. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2020, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sup-home-or-holmes-slang-term/712043/50 "2020-01-30T19:50:10Z")
> [@Johnny\_L.A](#): > > I said '80s, not 40 years. I moved to L.A. in 1987. > > My evidence is personal experience. L.A. is an urban environment. I mostly heard the word used by Black people, but I also heard it used by White people. I don’t recall any particular individual’s socio-economic class. I was in LA before you (early 80’s) and it was in use around that time too. Not linked to any particular ethnic group, it was used by black, white and Hispanic kids I knew. ---
**Author:** ![Jasmine](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jasmine/32/2964_2.png) [@Jasmine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jasmine)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2020, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sup-home-or-holmes-slang-term/712043/51 "2020-01-30T19:54:51Z")
Wiktionary: > [@](#): > > Noun. holmes (plural not attested) (slang) An informal term of address, like man or dude. Hey, holmes! What’s up? ---
**Author:** ![KMS94](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ad7895/32.png) [@KMS94](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KMS94)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2020, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sup-home-or-holmes-slang-term/712043/52 "2020-01-30T20:42:06Z")
> [@Jonathan\_Chance](#): > > ‘Holmes’, on the other hand, was more of a Latino thing. It was definitely out there on the street by 1985 in SoCal. I know “Hey, Holmes!” was in use in my area in 1989. My high school yearbook is my cite. 😃 Judging from who wrote it, and how I was in high school, I’m thinking we picked it up from Cheech and Chong. [http://www.subzin.com/quotes/M8245c03f/Cheech+and+Chong's+Next+Movie/Hey%2C+Holmes](http://www.subzin.com/quotes/M8245c03f/Cheech+and+Chong%27s+Next+Movie/Hey%2C+Holmes). > **[Hey, Holmes.](https://movie-sounds.org/ghetto-movie-sound-clips/quotes-with-sound-clips-from-cheech-and-chong-s-up-in-smoke/hey-holmes)** > > Sound clip from Cheech and Chong's Up in Smoke 🔊 Click to listen ---
**Author:** ![Darryl\_Lict](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7cd45c/32.png) [@Darryl\_Lict](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darryl_Lict)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2020, 12:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sup-home-or-holmes-slang-term/712043/53 "2020-02-02T00:53:26Z")
Los Angeles, early 1970s, hispanic jr. high, it was holmes. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2020, 12:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sup-home-or-holmes-slang-term/712043/54 "2020-02-02T00:59:32Z")
For most Americans, there’s no difference in the pronunciation of “homes” and “Holmes”. I’m surprised that so many people are so sure they heard one and not the other. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2020, 1:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sup-home-or-holmes-slang-term/712043/55 "2020-02-02T01:05:11Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > For most Americans, there’s no difference in the pronunciation of “homes” and “Holmes”. I’m surprised that so many people are so sure they heard one and not the other. Yeah, looking back at this thread years later, I see what you’re saying. But I am one of the Americans who do say the “l” there, as well as the “l” in “folk” and “yolk.” Might just be a quirk of my pronunciation, though, as I do know those words often don’t have the “l” pronounced. ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2020, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sup-home-or-holmes-slang-term/712043/56 "2020-02-02T17:55:38Z")
I always thought “homes” as a derivative of “homeboy.” A homeboy was someone that you knew from your neighborhood, or your “home” and was someone you could trust. Saying “Hey homes” was the urban equivalent of saying “Hey, pal” or “Hey, buddy” or “Hey, friend” Holmes doesn’t make much sense. ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2020, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sup-home-or-holmes-slang-term/712043/57 "2020-02-02T17:59:59Z")
Duplicate. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2020, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sup-home-or-holmes-slang-term/712043/58 "2020-02-02T18:23:00Z")
> [@UltraVires](#): > > I always thought “homes” as a derivative of “homeboy.” A homeboy was someone that you knew from your neighborhood, or your “home” and was someone you could trust. Saying “Hey homes” was the urban equivalent of saying “Hey, pal” or “Hey, buddy” or “Hey, friend”. On this, I agree with you. ---
**Author:** ![BrickBat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ac91a4/32.png) [@BrickBat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrickBat)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2020, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sup-home-or-holmes-slang-term/712043/59 "2020-02-02T19:55:46Z")
From the 90s to not too long I ago I recall hearing ( phonetically ) _Wha-SAH!_ for Wass-up ( What’s up ). I’d also hear it shortened a lot to just _Sah!_ ( phonetically ) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sup-home-or-holmes-slang-term/712043.md?page=2)