# Super Tuesday Primary Discussion **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [March 1, 2020, 5:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/super-tuesday-primary-discussion/848741 "2020-03-01T05:33:42Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 16
**Author:** ![That\_Don\_Guy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/that_don_guy/32/538_2.png) [@That\_Don\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/That_Don_Guy)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2020, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/super-tuesday-primary-discussion/848741/301 "2020-03-04T19:15:41Z")
> [@Omar\_Little](#): > > Being POTUS alone doesn’t mean your agenda gets passed. Exactly - and that’s the message he needs to send to his supporters. ---
**Author:** ![SuntanLotion](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/suntanlotion/32/16165_2.png) [@SuntanLotion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SuntanLotion)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2020, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/super-tuesday-primary-discussion/848741/302 "2020-03-04T19:19:30Z")
I got a laugh out of the psycho “anti-dairy” protesters. smh ---
**Author:** ![Alex\_from\_CB](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/278dde/32.png) [@Alex\_from\_CB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alex_from_CB)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2020, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/super-tuesday-primary-discussion/848741/303 "2020-03-04T19:19:33Z")
> [@Lamoral](#): > > And when Biden loses because he’s a piece of shit candidate, who are you going to blame? Sanders, of course. Biden may be a bad candidate but he beat the chit out of Sanders, Warren, Barzini, Blumberg, Moe Green. Today Bye-Don settled all family business. How bad as candidates must last nights losers be? ---
**Author:** ![DinoR](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dinor/32/2821_2.png) [@DinoR](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DinoR)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2020, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/super-tuesday-primary-discussion/848741/304 "2020-03-04T19:25:19Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > Honestly, does anyone vote based on debate performance? We vote our tribes. Not really. General election debates don’t seem to have made a difference even before increasing partisanship and tribalism in the last 2+ decades. An older [cite](https://washingtonmonthly.com/magazine/septoct-2012/do-presidential-debates-really-matter/), from 2012, but the data just doesn’t seem to support the common belief that they matter a lot. ---
**Author:** ![Disgruntled\_Penguin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a8b319/32.png) [@Disgruntled\_Penguin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Disgruntled_Penguin)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2020, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/super-tuesday-primary-discussion/848741/305 "2020-03-04T19:25:26Z")
> [@Unreconstructed\_Man](#): > > I don’t know if Bernie could beat Trump (although the polls suggest he easily could), So the guy who presumably can’t beat the weak minded, too old, too corporate Biden can beat Donald Trump? The mind boggles. > [@Unreconstructed\_Man](#): > > but I simply can’t crowbar my mind open wide enough to accommodate the notion of a Biden victory. He’s got more chance of winning Glamour’s Woman of the Year. Yep, closed minds are funny that way. By definition they’re stubborn. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2020, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/super-tuesday-primary-discussion/848741/306 "2020-03-04T19:25:48Z")
Of course Trump’s boss Putin is trying to hurt Biden. But that doesn’t mean that he wants Sanders to be the nominee: He’s trying to hurt _all_ of the likely Democratic nominees. Including Sanders. And his attacks on Sanders have been a lot more effective. I mean, look at the “Bernie Bros”. Putin pays a bunch of trolls to say really obnoxious things, and to say that they support Sanders. The result of this is a lot of people look at those trolls, and say “Well, I would like Sanders, but his supporters are all so obnoxious, so I don’t want to support him”. And this was an entirely predictable reaction. Putin’s no idiot; he knew that the result of his trolls would be people deciding against Sanders. Yes, there are a few genuine Sanders supporters who are obnoxious, too. That’s inevitable. Every politician will have a few obnoxious folks among their supporters. But it’s only because of Putin’s trolls that the obnoxious ones have come to be especially associated with Sanders. As for the socialism thing, that’s Sanders’ biggest strength. No matter who the Democrats nominate, they and their policies will be called socialist. What’s their answer to that accusation? Sanders’ answer will be “Damn straight I’m a socialist, and here’s what that means for you”. What’s Biden got, that can compare to that? ---
**Author:** ![Omar\_Little](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omar_little/32/269_2.png) [@Omar\_Little](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omar_Little)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2020, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/super-tuesday-primary-discussion/848741/307 "2020-03-04T19:25:58Z")
> [@SuntanLotion](#): > > I got a laugh out of the psycho “anti-dairy” protesters. smh Let Dairy Die! When I first heard it, I thought they were referring to Derry, NH. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2020, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/super-tuesday-primary-discussion/848741/308 "2020-03-04T19:33:10Z")
> [@Unreconstructed\_Man](#): > > If there was _anything_ to be learned from 2016, it’s that a pissed off population will vote for a maverick over a Washington Insider, even if that maverick has no Earthly idea what he’s doing. Even if he’s a crook. Even if he grabs women by the pussy and lies with every breath that he can muster. People will pick him over the Washington Insider. Your conclusion-drawing is severely flawed. Nobody (to a first approximation) voted for Trump because he wasn’t a Washington Insider or because he was a maverick. They voted for him because he hated the people they hated. They keep backing him because he hates the people they hate, loudly and publicly. “They” are close to 40% of the electorate. They have remained absolutely constant throughout his term. But they never get any larger. There are always only two ways to win back an office. Draw off those who are not diehard core supporters or bring large numbers of new voters to the polls. Sanders has not been able to do either. Biden can almost certainly do both, bringing black voters back to the polls and winning the suburban women who went to Trump. I’m worried about Biden’s gaffes as well. But I can look at history, too. Both Ronald Reagan and George W. Bush made thousands of verbal blunders, as many as Trump. (People compiled whole books of them.) It didn’t affect them. Their followers liked them and forgave. This didn’t work for someone like Dan Quayle, whom nobody liked. Biden is liked, though. He’s Uncle Joe. His gaffes will be fodder for the late night comedians as it already is. And he’ll skate right over it. I don’t think I’ve ever agreed with Sam Stone, but this time he gets it. Sanders as nominee will be a disaster. The Democrats have one and only one hope and that’s Biden. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2020, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/super-tuesday-primary-discussion/848741/309 "2020-03-04T19:33:23Z")
> [@SuntanLotion](#): > > I got a laugh out of the psycho “anti-dairy” protesters. smh I loved Rachel Maddow’s praising of Jill Biden’s “wax on wax off” Karate Kid technique for handling one of them. ---
**Author:** ![Disgruntled\_Penguin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a8b319/32.png) [@Disgruntled\_Penguin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Disgruntled_Penguin)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2020, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/super-tuesday-primary-discussion/848741/310 "2020-03-04T19:45:45Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Of course Trump’s boss Putin is trying to hurt Biden. But that doesn’t mean that he wants Sanders to be the nominee: He’s trying to hurt _all_ of the likely Democratic nominees. Including Sanders. And his attacks on Sanders have been a lot more effective. That’s nice but the report isn’t that Putin is trying to hurt Biden. It’s that [U.S. officials tell Democrat Sanders Russia is trying to help his campaign](https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-election-russia-sanders/u-s-officials-tell-democrat-sanders-russia-is-trying-to-help-his-campaign-washington-post-idUSKBN20F2TH) ---
**Author:** ![Boycott](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boycott/32/6741_2.png) [@Boycott](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boycott)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2020, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/super-tuesday-primary-discussion/848741/311 "2020-03-04T19:53:12Z")
Biden picks up delegates in Vermont. Bernie’s home state he won 86%-14% win in 2016. Bernie is down to 50% now. No one bothered to campaign there so that is a hell of a decrease in vote for the state’s senator. ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2020, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/super-tuesday-primary-discussion/848741/312 "2020-03-04T19:53:37Z")
> [@Lamoral](#): > > You seem to be forgetting that TRUMP WON, and in no small part BECAUSE he used those words. > > Hillary lost in 2016 because she was a shitty candidate, not because of Bernie Sanders. Biden will, probably, lose in 2020, because he’s a shitty candidate, not because of Bernie Sanders. > > \ We fundamentally disagree on this point. Hillary lost in 2016 because of 30 years’ worth of demonization by Republicans and significant Russian interference in our elections – which, incidentally, included active support for Sanders. I notice this point is never raised by Sanders supporters. Also voter ennui and Republican smear tactics being far more effective because we didn’t understand in that moment just how corrupt to the bone they all were. Now we know. Hillary was a very qualified candidate who always enjoyed high approval ratings in any job she got once she got the job. She was an extremely popular Secretary of State and New York senator. People didn’t like her when she asked for power, but once she attained it, they liked her fine. Biden is not Hillary Clinton, and while Trump and the Russians will try to demonize him like they did her, voters are sort of onto that. Biden exudes decency. You can’t take that away from him. Plus Trump, you know, got impeached for trying to gin up a fake investigation by Ukraine (as advised to do by Putin), so the tactic will probably lose some of its effectiveness this time around. By the way, do you wonder why Sanders has such massive monetary support from his young, broke base and lots of endless Twitter pundits, but after all the money and noise, they didn’t turn out to vote for him when it mattered? I find it curious. Just sayin’. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2020, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/super-tuesday-primary-discussion/848741/313 "2020-03-04T20:00:44Z")
Exactly. People doubting that a barrage of SOCIALISM SOCIALISM SOCIALISM won’t work have conveniently forgotten how well the demonization of Clinton worked in 2016. Trump didn’t win on his charm. He won on hate. Don’t hand him hate on a platter again. ---
**Author:** ![ISiddiqui](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/97f17d/32.png) [@ISiddiqui](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ISiddiqui)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2020, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/super-tuesday-primary-discussion/848741/314 "2020-03-04T20:14:52Z")
I also find it intriguing that Sanders is having trouble in a number of primary states he won big in 2016. I wonder if a decent portion of 2016 Sanders voters were more anti-Hillary than they were pro-Sanders. At least Biden won’t have to deal with that over-the-top Hillary hate. ---
**Author:** ![Boycott](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boycott/32/6741_2.png) [@Boycott](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boycott)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2020, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/super-tuesday-primary-discussion/848741/315 "2020-03-04T20:42:00Z")
Sanders did a press conference repeating the point Biden has received donations from 60 billionaires (max $2800 each). I’m sorry but that loses its mark when Biden has just won several states he had barely any ground game because his campaign was so broke. That attack goes out of the window. ---
**Author:** ![Rick\_Kitchen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rick_kitchen/32/522_2.png) [@Rick\_Kitchen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick_Kitchen)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2020, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/super-tuesday-primary-discussion/848741/316 "2020-03-04T20:44:20Z")
> [@ISiddiqui](#): > > I also find it intriguing that Sanders is having trouble in a number of primary states he won big in 2016. I wonder if a decent portion of 2016 Sanders voters were more anti-Hillary than they were pro-Sanders. At least Biden won’t have to deal with that over-the-top Hillary hate. Instead he’ll have to deal with the over-the-top Obama hate. ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2020, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/super-tuesday-primary-discussion/848741/317 "2020-03-04T21:01:44Z")
> [@Aspenglow](#): > > They’re acting like it was an overwhelming blowout because it was an overwhelming blowout. > > Yesterday was supposed to be Sanders’ big day. He was going to come out of Super Tuesday with such an insurmountable delegate lead, no one else would be able to catch him and he would become the presumptive nominee. Biden not only overwhelmed Sanders’ projected lead. He outdistanced it handily. > > And he did it with almost no money, no advertising and no ground game. > > You can try to spin that like it’s no big deal, but it’s a big \*\*\*\*n’ deal. At last count, the delegate race was 566 Biden vs 501 Sanders. As California turns in their ballots, that number may narrow. Biden won super tuesday, but Sanders being within arms reach of him doesn’t make it a blowout. > [@Aspenglow](#): > > What must the “democratic establishment” do to persuade Sanders supporters that they _are_ listening to them? Enlisting Beto O’Rourke into working on gun legislation isn’t enough? Biden’s promise to immediately rejoin the Paris Climate Accord means nothing? His promise to immediately roll back Trump’s stupid tax cuts? What will Sanders supporters find persuasive? **I’d genuinely like to know.** You say you genuinely like to know, so I’ll tell you as a Sanders supporter what many of us want. There is no universal list of things but if there were I would assume it would go as . [ol] [li]Combat and end the strangehold on politics that is held by private interests. There are multiple ways to do this (empower small donors, lobbyist reform, finance reform, expanding voter rights, etc) because without that, no laws are going to be passed that anger and offend the rich. And Americas problems can’t be solved without making rich people mad. Its a zero sum game at this point, there have to be winners and losers. [/li] [li]Vast expansions of the social welfare state (expanded subsidies for daycare, tertiary education, health care, pensions). [/li] [li]Restructuring of the tax code and economy to reduce income inequality and increase wages and job security for the masses. [/li] [li]Address climate change[/li][/ol] Would Sanders accomplish these things as president? not really, neither will Biden. Even if the democrats win the congress, congressional democrats won’t pass these initiatives. At best, they will pass much milder reforms no matter who is president. And we aren’t in love with Sanders. Sanders will be dead within ten years. He isn’t the messiah and he isn’t a king. However a lot of young people have seen the worst that capitalism has to offer, and our choices have always been the ruthlessly efficient 100% plutocratic party (GOP) and the spineless, tepid, cowardly party that is only 60% plutocratic (democrat). Sanders has his flaws, and he would never get his agenda through congress. Whatever health reform does pass (if any passes) would be similar no matter who is president. If anything, assuming the democrats win the senate, having a competent senate majority leader is more important than which democrat becomes president. The goal is more to slowly build a progressive movement that may not reach fruition for another decade or two. Sanders wouldn’t be FDR, but maybe we will get an FDR type politician in 2040. Meanwhile the mainstream democrats will slightly increase subsidies for people who buy insurance on the private market, and maybe add a slightly higher (but still vastly inadequate) level of spending on renewable energy, and they will do absolutely nothing to anger and offend the rich other than some mild tax hikes on them. ---
**Author:** ![Akaj](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/akaj/32/145_2.png) [@Akaj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Akaj)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2020, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/super-tuesday-primary-discussion/848741/318 "2020-03-04T21:03:06Z")
Is it too much to ask that the two horses left in this race – and their supporters – call a truce on attacking each other? The goal of evicting Trump from the White House is so much more important than any distinctions between Biden and Sanders. Public acrimony between their two campaigns hurts the party’s ability to achieve that goal by feeding the GOP narrative of Dems as confused and disorganized. But a mutual agreement to knock off the negative shit and support whichever candidate secures the nomination – the second they secure it – will defuse that narrative and help clarify the choice voters have to make in November. ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2020, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/super-tuesday-primary-discussion/848741/319 "2020-03-04T21:04:59Z")
> [@Boycott](#): > > Sanders did a press conference repeating the point Biden has received donations from 60 billionaires (max $2800 each). I’m sorry but that loses its mark when Biden has just won several states he had barely any ground game because his campaign was so broke. That attack goes out of the window. I don’t like billionaires running our politics, but until we end that system by empowering small donors, its best to use it when possible. Sanders turning down bloombergs money would put him at a major disadvantage in the general election. Maybe Sanders could raise $100-150 million in small donations a month if he were the nominee (that seems to be around what all the dem candidates earn together each month of the primary season) but Bloomberg may offer to bankroll the entire campaign himself out six month’s salary. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Stainless\_Steel\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_stainless_steel_rat/32/5727_2.png) [@The\_Stainless\_Steel\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Stainless_Steel_Rat)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2020, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/super-tuesday-primary-discussion/848741/320 "2020-03-04T21:19:23Z")
So Super Tuesday is in the mirror, but what is coming up: Here’s the rest of March (from Wikipedia): March 10: Idaho, Michigan, Mississippi, Missouri, and Washington primaries; North Dakota firehouse caucus March 14: Northern Mariana Islands caucuses March 15: The eleventh Democratic debate will take place in Phoenix, Arizona.[313] March 17: Arizona, Florida, Illinois, and Ohio primaries March 24: Georgia primary March 29: Puerto Rico primary I’m looking at that Ides of March debate, as it may be down to Sanders-Biden head-to-head (maybe Warren will stick around for it). Because 48 hours following the debate is Florida, Ohio, and Illinois, three delegate-rich states. If Biden sweeps those three, Bernie’s candidacy will be looking rather wobbly. IF. IMHO as always. YMMV. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/super-tuesday-primary-discussion/848741.md?page=15) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/super-tuesday-primary-discussion/848741.md?page=17)