# Super Tuesday Primary Discussion **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [March 1, 2020, 5:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/super-tuesday-primary-discussion/848741 "2020-03-01T05:33:42Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2020, 4:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/super-tuesday-primary-discussion/848741/161 "2020-03-04T04:35:14Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > Biden is a centrist Democrat and the majority of Democrats are centrists. He does extremely well with black voters, and their lack of turnout in key states was sufficient to explain the narrow margins Trump won them by. He isn’t a socialist. > > And that last statement is everything. There’s absolutely nothing wrong with being a democratic socialist of Bernie’s ilk. Except to the people for whom the word socialist eats into their brains with all the terror of a ten-foot zombie tarantula. And that’s probably half the country. If Sanders gets nominated, no matter what he says, no matter who supports him, no matter how good his ideas are, the country will hear SOCIALIST SOCIALIST SOCIALIST a thousand times a day. Nothing else will penetrate. The party will be so demonized that it might need a generation to recover. > > Sanders is the worst possible candidate for the real America of 2020. Anyone hiding the word SOCIALIST until the bottom of a long post probably recognizes that unconsciously. It is death. You have to go back to Al Smith in 1928 when the word CATHOLIC was similar anathema to find an equivalent. Democrats told themselves then that being a Catholic was meaningless, that nobody really cared, that his plans and ideas were better than Hoover’s. None of that mattered against the perpetual din of CATHOLIC CATHOLIC CATHOLIC. A generation later that identification no longer dominated. Today it’s a total non-issue. A democratic socialist will be similarly accepted in another generation. Maybe sooner. > > But not in 2020. > > The Democratic candidate cannot be a SOCIALIST. Nothing else compares. Nothing. Whatever Biden’s faults are - and yes, they are many and he never was my candidate - at least he isn’t a SOCIALIST. Every other adult politician in the party understands that, which is why Buttigeg and Klobuchar dropped out of the race and endorsed Biden. They did it for the Democratic party and because the only thing that matters in this election is defeating Trump. A SOCIALIST will lose the Presidency, keep the party from winning the Senate, and maybe lose the house as well. No sane Democrat could stand to see that happen. > > You have two choices. A SOCIALIST and Trump winning or a non-socialist and the chance of defeating Trump. That’s it. Like it or not. That’s reality in 2020. People said Obama couldn’t win because he was BLACK and people said Trump couldn’t win because he was a TREASONOUS MORON but the voters keep surprising us. Also there are trade offs. Biden will demoralize liberals and young voters, while Sander swill demoralize moderates and older voters. There is no win/win in this situation. If you want a candidate who excites liberals, the black vote, older voters and the youth vote, they don’t exist. Its a trade off. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2020, 4:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/super-tuesday-primary-discussion/848741/162 "2020-03-04T04:36:11Z")
Okay, so what does the actual delegate count look like now? ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2020, 4:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/super-tuesday-primary-discussion/848741/163 "2020-03-04T04:36:34Z")
> [@Lamoral](#): > > All of the same attributes that helped Hillary Clinton defeat Donald Trump. Yeah, and how is that working out for people who thought their votes didn’t matter? How’s that working out for Latinos who have family members getting deported? How’s that working out for Black voters who see a Republican party working in overdrive to strip them of the right to vote? How’s that working out for women who are seeing their abortion rights essentially repealed? How’s that working out for ho-hum voters who complained about Obamacare but now realize they might not have shit else? If you’re pissed off and complaining about life under Trump and don’t vote, fuck you, you deserve the shit river you’re swimming in. ---
**Author:** ![Lance\_Turbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lance_turbo/32/6156_2.png) [@Lance\_Turbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lance_Turbo)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2020, 4:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/super-tuesday-primary-discussion/848741/164 "2020-03-04T04:37:47Z")
> [@Darth\_Sensitive](#): > > Oklahoma was a primary four years ago (and before that too, but that wasn’t relevant) My bad. He won Minnesota and Colorado caucuses the same day and I conflated that. ---
**Author:** ![Lamoral](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lamoral/32/16078_2.png) [@Lamoral](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamoral)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2020, 4:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/super-tuesday-primary-discussion/848741/165 "2020-03-04T04:37:56Z")
> [@asahi](#): > > Yeah, and how is that working out for people who thought their votes didn’t matter? How’s that working out for Latinos who have family members getting deported? How’s that working out for Black voters who see a Republican party working in overdrive to strip them of the right to vote? How’s that working out for women who are seeing their abortion rights essentially repealed? How’s that working out for ho-hum voters who complained about Obamacare but now realize they might not have shit else? > > If you’re pissed off and complaining about life under Trump and don’t vote, fuck you, you deserve the shit river you’re swimming in. Right. And nothing here is in conflict with supporting Sanders. 😕 ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2020, 4:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/super-tuesday-primary-discussion/848741/166 "2020-03-04T04:38:12Z")
> [@Lamoral](#): > > I don’t give a fuck what you CALL his position. I believe it’s the morally correct position. And I think it’d be possible to sell it to America with the right marketing, just like any other goddamn thing on God’s earth. > > I started out as a libertarian. Sanders successfully sold me on his ideas. I say “his ideas” because they’re more than “SOCIALISM.” The rapacious healthcare and insurance industries need to be smacked down. That’s more important to me than anything else, and he’s the only one who’s going to get it done. Lots of young people have seen the massive failures of unregulated capitalism and regulatory capture. The brutal and unaffordable health care. Seeing the banks collapse and bring the world economy down with them. Unaffordable higher education. Unaffordable housing. Lack of job security. Low wages. Few benefits at work. Expensive daycare. A country where no matter which party wins, the rich and powerful maintain their cement like hold on power. And when young people get upset about this, older people scream SOCIALISM at then like its supposed to shame them into ignoring the reality they see everyday. People should listen to these voters rather than shame them because they don’t think what people want them to think. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2020, 4:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/super-tuesday-primary-discussion/848741/167 "2020-03-04T04:40:17Z")
> [@Lamoral](#): > > I don’t give a fuck what you CALL his position. I believe it’s the morally correct position. And I think it’d be possible to sell it to America with the right marketing, just like any other goddamn thing on God’s earth. > > I started out as a libertarian. Sanders successfully sold me on his ideas. I say “his ideas” because they’re more than “SOCIALISM.” The rapacious healthcare and insurance industries need to be smacked down. That’s more important to me than anything else, and he’s the only one who’s going to get it done. He’s not going to get it done because people don’t want it done. 2020 is not the first year in which healthcare has been an issue. Obama got it done. It wasn’t perfect, but it was better than nothing, and it also made imagining M4A possible. ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2020, 4:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/super-tuesday-primary-discussion/848741/168 "2020-03-04T04:40:52Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > Okay, so what does the actual delegate count look like now? of delegates won so far tonight 294 for Biden 249 for Sanders as of 11:40pm ---
**Author:** ![galen\_ubal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/galen_ubal/32/4440_2.png) [@galen\_ubal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/galen_ubal)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2020, 4:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/super-tuesday-primary-discussion/848741/169 "2020-03-04T04:41:21Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > Okay, so what does the actual delegate count look like now? [Quite the coincidence: this just came across my Twitter feed and I came over here to post it.](https://twitter.com/ryanstruyk/status/1235059962071494658) > [@](#): > > Ryan Struyk > @ryanstruyk > > Latest @CNN national delegate count as of 11:30 p.m. –\> > > Delegates needed to win nomination: 1,991 > > Biden 204 > Sanders 183 > Buttigieg 26 > Warren 15 > Klobuchar 7 > Bloomberg 4 > Gabbard 1 Ask and ye shall receive. ---
**Author:** ![Dale\_Sams](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/779978/32.png) [@Dale\_Sams](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dale_Sams)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2020, 4:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/super-tuesday-primary-discussion/848741/170 "2020-03-04T04:43:19Z")
> [@Wesley\_Clark](#): > > People said Obama couldn’t win because he was BLACK and people said Trump couldn’t win because he was a TREASONOUS MORON but the voters keep surprising us. > > Also there are trade offs. Biden will demoralize liberals and young voters, while Sander swill demoralize moderates and older voters. > > There is no win/win in this situation. If you want a candidate who excites liberals, the black vote, older voters and the youth vote, they don’t exist. Its a trade off. A catholic will never win A ‘Peanut farmer’ will never win A washed up actor will never win A black man will never win [Trump cant win](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G87UXIH8Lzo&t=87s) ---
**Author:** ![galen\_ubal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/galen_ubal/32/4440_2.png) [@galen\_ubal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/galen_ubal)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2020, 4:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/super-tuesday-primary-discussion/848741/171 "2020-03-04T04:43:58Z")
[CNN has a delegate tracker here.](https://www.cnn.com/election/2020/primaries-and-caucuses?xid=ec_delegatetracker_d) ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Lendervedder](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/happy_lendervedder/32/8488_2.png) [@Happy\_Lendervedder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Lendervedder)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2020, 4:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/super-tuesday-primary-discussion/848741/172 "2020-03-04T04:45:07Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > Okay, so what does the actual delegate count look like now? [NPR has a running total, as well as a state-by-state total.](https://www.npr.org/2020/02/10/799979293/how-many-delegates-do-the-2020-presidential-democratic-candidates-have?utm_source=facebook.com&utm_term=nprnews&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=npr&fbclid=IwAR0VIPqKHG6PKJJkN4e6nOxqf66jlhfXJTAYCy3J0iZVomXyKBB3DbGMyi4) They seem to be ahead of CNN’s count. ---
**Author:** ![dalej42](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@dalej42](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dalej42)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2020, 4:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/super-tuesday-primary-discussion/848741/173 "2020-03-04T04:46:48Z")
> [@Wesley\_Clark](#): > > Lots of young people have seen the massive failures of unregulated capitalism and regulatory capture. The brutal and unaffordable health care. Seeing the banks collapse and bring the world economy down with them. Unaffordable higher education. Unaffordable housing. Lack of job security. Low wages. Few benefits at work. Expensive daycare. A country where no matter which party wins, the rich and powerful maintain their cement like hold on power. > > And when young people get upset about this, older people scream SOCIALISM at then like its supposed to shame them into ignoring the reality they see everyday. > > People should listen to these voters rather than shame them because they don’t think what people want them to think. And they’re mad as hell and not going to take it anymore. They’re going to run out and vote for someone who isn’t a corporate Wall Street establishment closeted Republican. Youth turnout will surge! The politics of complacency are over! Radical change now!!! Nah. Those petulant children can have a pat on the head, mommy will make them a hot pocket, and they can go back to the basement and get on the tweety bird. ---
**Author:** ![Dale\_Sams](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/779978/32.png) [@Dale\_Sams](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dale_Sams)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2020, 4:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/super-tuesday-primary-discussion/848741/174 "2020-03-04T04:47:01Z")
> [@asahi](#): > > 1. He’s not Trump. > 2. He will follow the rule of law. > 3. He will follow the Constitution. > 4. He will nominate moderate judges (and not nominate wacko right wing ideologue judges) > 5. He will protect and expand Obamacare - flawed though it may be is much better than what existed before and expanded coverage. > 6. He will allow asylum seekers and immigrants to go through the normal process. > 7. He won’t put immigrants in cages. > 8. He will put competent people in positions of power > 9. He will try to increase taxes for the rich and keep taxation moderate for everyone else > 10. He will protect the LGBTQ community. > 11. Probably a lot of other shit. > > I’d rather have 10-15 issues that are achieveable than 3 “signatures” that don’t have shit chance of passing. The last Dem didn’t do all that…what makes you think the one who puts the DEM in Dementia will? ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2020, 4:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/super-tuesday-primary-discussion/848741/175 "2020-03-04T04:52:15Z")
At what point do Sanders supporters acknowledge that Sanders hasn’t grown his base in 5 years? He’s been campaigning practically continuously since 2016. His message never changes, he just repeats the same points over and over and over. He’s not doing as well in 2020 as he did in 2016. His base is with him, but no one else. What is this magic messaging marketing trick he’s going to pull to persuade a majority of voters to support him, when he hasn’t been able to do it in 5 years? Now might be the moment to use it. Wasn’t tonight supposed to be the night? ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2020, 4:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/super-tuesday-primary-discussion/848741/176 "2020-03-04T04:58:18Z")
> [@dalej42](#): > > And they’re mad as hell and not going to take it anymore. They’re going to run out and vote for someone who isn’t a corporate Wall Street establishment closeted Republican. Youth turnout will surge! The politics of complacency are over! Radical change now!!! > > Nah. Those petulant children can have a pat on the head, mommy will make them a hot pocket, and they can go back to the basement and get on the tweety bird. The condescension in this post is ugly. Really ugly. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2020, 4:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/super-tuesday-primary-discussion/848741/177 "2020-03-04T04:59:23Z")
So - about all those states remaining \*\*\*after \*\*\*tonight - do they favor Biden or Bernie? (That is, all the remaining 50 states when deducting Iowa, New Hampshire, S.C., Nevada, and all of the Super Tuesday states) ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2020, 5:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/super-tuesday-primary-discussion/848741/178 "2020-03-04T05:00:00Z")
> [@Wesley\_Clark](#): > > of delegates won so far tonight > > 294 for Biden > 249 for Sanders > > as of 11:40pm > [@galen\_ubal](#): > > [Quite the coincidence: this just came across my Twitter feed and I came over here to post it.](https://twitter.com/ryanstruyk/status/1235059962071494658) > Ask and ye shall receive. > [@galen\_ubal](#): > > [CNN has a delegate tracker here.](https://www.cnn.com/election/2020/primaries-and-caucuses?xid=ec_delegatetracker_d) > [@Happy\_Lendervedder](#): > > [NPR has a running total, as well as a state-by-state total.](https://www.npr.org/2020/02/10/799979293/how-many-delegates-do-the-2020-presidential-democratic-candidates-have?utm_source=facebook.com&utm_term=nprnews&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=npr&fbclid=IwAR0VIPqKHG6PKJJkN4e6nOxqf66jlhfXJTAYCy3J0iZVomXyKBB3DbGMyi4) > > They seem to be ahead of CNN’s count. Thank you all. ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Lendervedder](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/happy_lendervedder/32/8488_2.png) [@Happy\_Lendervedder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Lendervedder)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2020, 5:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/super-tuesday-primary-discussion/848741/179 "2020-03-04T05:00:11Z")
[State of Cher: Biden 100%](https://twitter.com/cher/status/1235045279348322306) ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2020, 5:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/super-tuesday-primary-discussion/848741/180 "2020-03-04T05:02:50Z")
As a Sanders supporter, one sad realization is the fact that in 2016 many Sanders supporters weren’t voting for Sanders, they were voting against Hillary Clinton. They didn’t like Sanders, they just disliked Hillary. Sanders is doing worse in states in 2020 than he did in 2016, including his home state. But its also good because I assume a lot of people voting for Biden are voting ‘for’ Biden because they like him. And hopefully he has good turnout in November if he is the nominee. Hillary got about 66 million voters, but the democratic nominee is probably going to need at least 67-68 million to deal with the bias in the electoral college (Obama got 69 million in 2008). I really hope Biden has 70+ million voter turnout if he is the nominee when the general election happens. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/super-tuesday-primary-discussion/848741.md?page=8) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/super-tuesday-primary-discussion/848741.md?page=10)