# Superdome Evacuation Stopped After Shots Fired At Helicopter **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [September 1, 2005, 12:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/superdome-evacuation-stopped-after-shots-fired-at-helicopter/319576 "2005-09-01T12:48:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2005, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/superdome-evacuation-stopped-after-shots-fired-at-helicopter/319576/181 "2005-09-02T17:16:13Z")
> [@bordelond](#): > > **Hentor** – see above. > > Why didn’t you believe? I took that as a big _“Fuck 'em – it ain’t that bad”_ to all the folks in peril. No. I meant it as “Anonymous posters on an internet board who say ‘sorry - no cite’ should be taken with a big grain of salt.” I’ll not change that. Pittsburgh was probably like most places during 9/11 in terms of astounding rumors flying around, but having one of the planes in our area led to all kinds of shit being slung during that day. I find nothing less helpful than spouting and spreading chicken little stories. If you want to be hot off the presses with information, so be it, but you can’t count on me to fulfill your personal needs in response. ---
**Author:** ![bordelond](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bordelond/32/150_2.png) [@bordelond](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bordelond)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2005, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/superdome-evacuation-stopped-after-shots-fired-at-helicopter/319576/182 "2005-09-02T17:42:42Z")
> [@Hentor the Barbarian](#): > > I find nothing less helpful than spouting and spreading chicken little stories. If you want to be hot off the presses with information, so be it, but you can’t count on me to fulfill your personal needs in response. There were people in this thread seriously doubting things in New Orleans had deteriorating to the degree it did. I felt they needed to be set straight with ground-level info (even if immediately unconfirmable). Where are you getting “Chicken Little” from? What I posted was true, and picked up by major media later in the day. Personal needs? What? ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2005, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/superdome-evacuation-stopped-after-shots-fired-at-helicopter/319576/183 "2005-09-02T18:16:03Z")
> [@bordelond](#): > > There were people in this thread seriously doubting things in New Orleans had deteriorating to the degree it did. I felt they needed to be set straight with ground-level info (even if immediately unconfirmable). That is super-duper, but we as readers of your cite-less posts have no way of knowing if you are pulling shit out of your ass or not. > [@](#): > > Where are you getting “Chicken Little” from? What I posted was true, and picked up by major media later in the day. Again, you seem to be having a hard time understanding that you and others are distinct entities. We have no way of knowing whether your claims are like those of chicken little or not if you provide no information with which to evaluate them. > [@](#): > > Personal needs? What? Well, despite having said “take it or leave it,” you seem so concerned that some “left it” rather than “took it” that you have come back asking why I didn’t “take it,” and seem personally offended. You thus seem to have some need you are looking for me to fill. Otherwise, you’d be more comfortable that I chose to wait for some confirmation. ---
**Author:** ![bordelond](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bordelond/32/150_2.png) [@bordelond](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bordelond)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2005, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/superdome-evacuation-stopped-after-shots-fired-at-helicopter/319576/184 "2005-09-02T18:28:46Z")
> [@Hentor the Barbarian](#): > > You thus seem to have some need you are looking for me to fill. Otherwise, you’d be more comfortable that I chose to wait for some confirmation. Okay – I can see that I mistook cynicism for “so what?”. I rushed to offense. I apologize to you and **Askia** for that. I am still curious, though – do you now have the confirmation you were waiting for? From where you’re sitting … what have you seen or not seen? ---
**Author:** ![Sunspace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sunspace/32/1250_2.png) [@Sunspace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunspace)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2005, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/superdome-evacuation-stopped-after-shots-fired-at-helicopter/319576/185 "2005-09-02T19:36:01Z")
> [@even sven](#): > > Are we surprised? > > We left these people to be killed in a hurricane. All of those shopowners left. They got in their cars and left. **But we never sent out busses for the rest.** We in fact, _shut down_ the few ways the poor had to get out of the city. The poor and the elderly were left to die. > > Then, we never came for them. It’s been days without food, without water, without sanitation, surrounded by the dead and destruction. And still people don’t have a place to go. People are still stuck in the rising water not knowing if the rescuers will ever come for them. Holy crap. This is something I wasn’t quite able to clarify about the evacuation before the storm, and I asked about it in another thread. My impression was that most of the _residents_ remaining in the city had chosen to stay there. ---
**Author:** ![threemae](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/5f9b8f/32.png) [@threemae](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/threemae)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2005, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/superdome-evacuation-stopped-after-shots-fired-at-helicopter/319576/186 "2005-09-02T19:51:19Z")
> [@Sunspace](#): > > Holy crap. This is something I wasn’t quite able to clarify about the evacuation before the storm, and I asked about it in another thread. My impression was that most of the _residents_ remaining in the city had chosen to stay there. Nope, in fact in another thread a Doper described having moved into NO just in the last week and having a car…parked in the northern part of the city. The busses were shut down, so this Doper couldn’t get to their car. They barely managed to finally get their car, and filled up on gas on the way out. Tons of people on the roads north of NO were either broken down or out of gas, and there was no one picking them up. Hopefully most of these people eventually got picked up, but no, there was even less transportation out of the city on last Sunday than in a typical Sunday. If you didn’t have a car, you were screwed. ---
**Author:** ![SnakesCatLady](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/4af34b/32.png) [@SnakesCatLady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SnakesCatLady)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2005, 1:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/superdome-evacuation-stopped-after-shots-fired-at-helicopter/319576/187 "2005-09-03T01:08:41Z")
Thats what I don’t understand. I don’t really have as much sympathy for the people who had the means to evacuate and chose not to. But how can the mayor of a city order it to be evacuated and not make some kind of provision for people who either don’t have cars, or have health problems that prevent driving, or are flat broke, or for whatever reason do not have the means to evacuate. The mayor of NO and the governor have to take the rap for this. Why wasn’t the National Guard being readied over the weekend? Why wasn’t the police department prepared? Why are people shooting at the people trying to help? ---
**Author:** ![flickster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/7bcc69/32.png) [@flickster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/flickster)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2005, 3:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/superdome-evacuation-stopped-after-shots-fired-at-helicopter/319576/188 "2005-09-03T03:04:55Z")
> [@even sven](#): > > Are we surprised? > > We left these people to be killed in a hurricane. All of those shopowners left. They got in their cars and left. But we never sent out busses for the rest. We in fact, _shut down_ the few ways the poor had to get out of the city. The poor and the elderly were left to die. > > Then, we never came for them. It’s been days without food, without water, without sanitation, surrounded by the dead and destruction. And still people don’t have a place to go. People are still stuck in the rising water not knowing if the rescuers will ever come for them. > > ANd when they start getting a little crazy, when they lose hope and start figureing that civilization is not going to help them now, we watch them on television and reassure ourselves that they were bad people to begin with. > > How would you conduct yourself if your city left you to die? Yes, there were people without means left behind and that’s a burden that the Mayor of New Orleans has to bear due to not making any provisions for them. After all, that is one of his responsibilities. He also didn’t make any provision to evacuate nursing homes or hospitals. But IMHO, there is also another significant group that chose to stay for the explicit purpose of looting as much as possible. How many? I don’t know, but I guarantee it’s more than a handful. ---
**Author:** ![Mama\_Tiger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/6de8d8/32.png) [@Mama\_Tiger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mama_Tiger)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2005, 3:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/superdome-evacuation-stopped-after-shots-fired-at-helicopter/319576/189 "2005-09-03T03:13:24Z")
The mayor of New Orleans had said as recently as last year that he never wanted to order a mandatory evacuation because he knew there were so many people with a complete inability to leave the city. So the decision was taken out of his hands by the governor. She ordered the evacuation, but provided no assistance for getting anybody out. Plus they had less than 48 hours to get everyone out. Over, basically four major highways. To evacuate over a million people. That’s going to strain the resources of just about anywhere. Would you be able to evacuate every hospital and nursing home in your city in under 48 hours? So there _was_ a plan in place. To have people go to the Superdome, where it was assumed that they’d be cooped up for 48 hours at most before federal disaster relief assistance would arrive. And we know how well _that_ happened. I’m not going to blame Mayor Nagin. Especially if I consider how bad it would have been under his predecessor, Marc Morial. _::shudder::_ ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2005, 3:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/superdome-evacuation-stopped-after-shots-fired-at-helicopter/319576/190 "2005-09-03T03:25:01Z")
> [@Mama Tiger](#): > > …snip… Would you be able to evacuate every hospital and nursing home in your city in under 48 hours? …snip… I know we could not hope to evacuate NYC in 48 hours. I doubt LA could. Indianapolis, probably could do it, but a smallish city surrounded by land on all sides. ---
**Author:** ![flickster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/7bcc69/32.png) [@flickster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/flickster)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2005, 3:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/superdome-evacuation-stopped-after-shots-fired-at-helicopter/319576/191 "2005-09-03T03:42:46Z")
> [@Mama Tiger](#): > > The mayor of New Orleans had said as recently as last year that he never wanted to order a mandatory evacuation because he knew there were so many people with a complete inability to leave the city. Sounds like, “Oh, that would be too hard, I don’t even want to try.” True, maybe you can’t save them all, but at least you can save SOME. The Superdome would have been an OK plan if any thought had been given to food, water, waste disposal and adequate security. > [@](#): > > So the decision was taken out of his hands by the governor. She ordered the evacuation, but provided no assistance for getting anybody out. Thank goodness the Governor stepped in and at least tried to do something… ---
**Author:** ![flickster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/7bcc69/32.png) [@flickster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/flickster)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2005, 3:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/superdome-evacuation-stopped-after-shots-fired-at-helicopter/319576/192 "2005-09-03T03:43:55Z")
> [@jrfranchi](#): > > I know we could not hope to evacuate NYC in 48 hours. I doubt LA could. > Indianapolis, probably could do it, but a smallish city surrounded by land on all sides. But you could evacuate some of them, right??? ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2005, 3:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/superdome-evacuation-stopped-after-shots-fired-at-helicopter/319576/193 "2005-09-03T03:44:19Z")
> [@even sven](#): > > Are we surprised? > > We left these people to be killed in a hurricane. All of those shopowners left. They got in their cars and left. But we never sent out busses for the rest. We in fact, _shut down_ the few ways the poor had to get out of the city. The poor and the elderly were left to die. The city ran busses to the Superdome. What do you mean, “…we never sent out busses for the rest?” Where did you get that idea? ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2005, 4:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/superdome-evacuation-stopped-after-shots-fired-at-helicopter/319576/194 "2005-09-03T04:11:42Z")
> [@flickster](#): > > But you could evacuate some of them, right??? **Hopefully most.** It would be remarkable if you could get NYC under 1,000,000 in 2 days flat. I would hope that you could. If Rudy was there and put in charge of the Evac, I would say the chances would go up greatly and the people evacuated would be a higher percent. I have lots of friends and relatives in NYC. I was born in the Bronx. In case of the great Atlantic Tsunami, a lot of people are not going to be able to flee out of the city. If proper warning is given and Natl Guard is immediately on full alert then yes most should get out. ---
**Author:** ![markdiscordia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c6cbf5/32.png) [@markdiscordia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/markdiscordia)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2005, 5:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/superdome-evacuation-stopped-after-shots-fired-at-helicopter/319576/195 "2005-09-03T05:37:15Z")
> [@jrfranchi](#): > > Any chance at all that the gun debate could be ignored. This tragedy has a lot to do with the lack of Nat’l Guardsman on the scene. The Guardsmen who took guns away from people entering the refugee centers are complicit in every rape and murder of a disarmed person that happened. When you remove equalizing technology, the strong rule the weak. And that is what we are learning has happened inside the convention center over the past days. ---
**Author:** ![Euthanasiast](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/6f9a4e/32.png) [@Euthanasiast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euthanasiast)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2005, 7:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/superdome-evacuation-stopped-after-shots-fired-at-helicopter/319576/196 "2005-09-03T07:03:37Z")
> [@markdiscordia](#): > > The Guardsmen who took guns away from people entering the refugee centers are complicit in every rape and murder of a disarmed person that happened. When you remove equalizing technology, the strong rule the weak. And that is what we are learning has happened inside the convention center over the past days. Huh? ---
**Author:** ![markdiscordia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c6cbf5/32.png) [@markdiscordia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/markdiscordia)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2005, 7:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/superdome-evacuation-stopped-after-shots-fired-at-helicopter/319576/197 "2005-09-03T07:25:27Z")
> [@Euthanasiast](#): > > Huh? People were required to stop for a search and relieved of weapons, alcohol, and contraband before entering the refugee centers. In addition to backing up the process for hours, this was a civil liberties violation in itself. At the time it was defended as necessary for maintaining order, although it of course had the opposite effect. This policy directly led to: -The refugee centers descending into the law of the jungle -Addicts without their stuff wandering the streets, a major factor in the lawlessness there ---
**Author:** ![furt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/439d5e/32.png) [@furt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/furt)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2005, 7:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/superdome-evacuation-stopped-after-shots-fired-at-helicopter/319576/198 "2005-09-03T07:33:50Z")
> [@markdiscordia](#): > > People were required to stop for a search and relieved of weapons, alcohol, and contraband before entering the refugee centers. In addition to backing up the process for hours, this was a civil liberties violation in itself. At the time it was defended as necessary for maintaining order, although it of course had the opposite effect. > > This policy directly led to: > > -The refugee centers descending into the law of the jungle > -Addicts without their stuff wandering the streets, a major factor in the lawlessness there Dude … I’m a fierce proponent of the 2nd amendment. But if you think letting people carry looted weapons into the superdome would just be peachy … wow. ---
**Author:** ![markdiscordia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c6cbf5/32.png) [@markdiscordia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/markdiscordia)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2005, 7:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/superdome-evacuation-stopped-after-shots-fired-at-helicopter/319576/199 "2005-09-03T07:46:55Z")
> [@furt](#): > > Dude … I’m a fierce proponent of the 2nd amendment. But if you think letting people carry looted weapons into the superdome would just be peachy … This argument had some legs (not really good ones, in my opinion) while the searches were going on. But now that the stories are coming out about the vulnerable being raped and killed by stronger folk while the troops, who were so available to search people for beer before, were nowhere to be found, how can you justify such a position in retrospect? Some guns in the hands of the people who can’t fight off a gang of rapists is exactly what the Superdome needed. Yet again, gun control has gotten people raped and murdered. Simple as that. ---
**Author:** ![Euthanasiast](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/6f9a4e/32.png) [@Euthanasiast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euthanasiast)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2005, 8:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/superdome-evacuation-stopped-after-shots-fired-at-helicopter/319576/200 "2005-09-03T08:10:49Z")
> [@markdiscordia](#): > > This argument had some legs (not really good ones, in my opinion) while the searches were going on. But now that the stories are coming out about the vulnerable being raped and killed by stronger folk while the troops, who were so available to search people for beer before, were nowhere to be found, how can you justify such a position in retrospect? Some guns in the hands of the people who can’t fight off a gang of rapists is exactly what the Superdome needed. > > Yet again, gun control has gotten people raped and murdered. Simple as that. You know what happens to a round after it exits your attacker? Ever fired a gun blindfolded in a room with thousands of people? I mean, I’m the largest proponent ofthe 2nd Amendment that ever shit between two shoeheels, but… Are you high? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/superdome-evacuation-stopped-after-shots-fired-at-helicopter/319576.md?page=9)