# Superdome Evacuation Stopped After Shots Fired At Helicopter **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [September 1, 2005, 12:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/superdome-evacuation-stopped-after-shots-fired-at-helicopter/319576 "2005-09-01T12:48:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2005, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/superdome-evacuation-stopped-after-shots-fired-at-helicopter/319576/21 "2005-09-01T15:15:18Z")
> [@bordelond](#): > > I’ve been writing “looters” with quotes to make clear that I meant the lawless thugs shoot at copters from their rooftops (which _is_ happening – sorry, no cite) and taking over public buildings. OK. Allow me to restate. From a purely practical point of view, blowing the heads off of suspected **“looters”** is a bad idea > [@bordelond](#): > > Let me make it as clear as I can – anyone using weapons to hamper the evacuation efforts deserves summary death Yes, they do and my point is that it’s a bad idea to carry that out. ---
**Author:** ![Poonther](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Poonther](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Poonther)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2005, 3:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/superdome-evacuation-stopped-after-shots-fired-at-helicopter/319576/22 "2005-09-01T15:17:31Z")
Could this have been avoided a little better if the President had come back from vacation and started plans for helping the vicitims out on Monday and not Tuesday? I think it was poor judgement on Bush’s part to go to San Diego on Monday and try and talk up support for the War when the Gulf Coast was devistated. Yes I know the flooding really began on Tuesday, but they had been warned it would happen. I am not trying to blame it all on Bush, most of it would have happend anyway, but wouldn’t it have been better for the President to be proactive instead of reactive? ---
**Author:** ![bordelond](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bordelond/32/150_2.png) [@bordelond](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bordelond)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2005, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/superdome-evacuation-stopped-after-shots-fired-at-helicopter/319576/23 "2005-09-01T15:22:40Z")
> [@hajario](#): > > Yes, they do and my point is that it’s a bad idea to carry that out. Look, if they can get armed thugs to drop their weapons on sight of overwhelming military force, that’s great. Exactly when do you think shooting at armed thugs interfering with evacuation efforts is justifiable? When a thug takes out your copter pilot? Just when? Where is your line drawn? You’re not advocating that the military come in unarmed and just serve as target practice for thugs, are you? I assume not. Just lay out your position for me. I assume that at some point, even you would condone necessary violence. Just where do you, personally, draw the line? ---
**Author:** ![zut](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zut/32/2875_2.png) [@zut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zut)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2005, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/superdome-evacuation-stopped-after-shots-fired-at-helicopter/319576/24 "2005-09-01T15:23:17Z")
> [@bordelond](#): > > BTW – it’s not one shot fired. There are reports of large buildings in the city (the Convention Center for one) that have been taken over by armed gangs. Sorry, no cite – take or leave this info. I’m willing to bet that reports like these are stories that have grown in the telling, and that the armed gangs taking over buildings are really just a couple scared guys with pistols. And, seriously, I hope I’m right. On the other hand, what does surprise me is how quickly the entire city seems to be dropping into anarchy. I mean, everyone’s gonna get out in a few days time as soon as relief can get in. Imagine what would happen if some major disaster enveloped the entire country. ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2005, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/superdome-evacuation-stopped-after-shots-fired-at-helicopter/319576/25 "2005-09-01T15:25:51Z")
> [@bordelond](#): > > Just lay out your position for me. I assume that at some point, even you would condone necessary violence. Just where do you, personally, draw the line? Will you pay attention for fuck’s sake. I totally condone lethal violence against “looters” and even some looters in situations like this. I have no moral qualms at all about it. I just think that it’s an ineffective tactic because it will likely cause more harm than good. ---
**Author:** ![bordelond](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bordelond/32/150_2.png) [@bordelond](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bordelond)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2005, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/superdome-evacuation-stopped-after-shots-fired-at-helicopter/319576/26 "2005-09-01T15:26:15Z")
> [@zut](#): > > I’m willing to bet that reports like these are stories that have grown in the telling, and that the armed gangs taking over buildings are really just a couple scared guys with pistols. And, seriously, I hope I’m right. I think – and hope – you are. It’s only likely taking 10-15 armed men to scare the shit out of people and make them clear out a building. There’s still a good bit of 2-way radio communication between police and Guardsmen in New Orleans and evacuate family and friends. So a lot of (unconfirmed) grisly information is coming out of the city. The national news is only reporting the confirmable tip of the iceberg. ---
**Author:** ![bordelond](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bordelond/32/150_2.png) [@bordelond](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bordelond)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2005, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/superdome-evacuation-stopped-after-shots-fired-at-helicopter/319576/27 "2005-09-01T15:27:30Z")
> [@hajario](#): > > Will you pay attention for fuck’s sake. I totally condone lethal violence against “looters” and even some looters in situations like this. I have no moral qualms at all about it. I just think that it’s an ineffective tactic because it will likely cause more harm than good. So what’s the effective tactic? I’m not seeing viable alternatives here (except couting on the “shock and awe” of tanks, fatigues, etc. making thugs give themselves up). ---
**Author:** ![Dag\_Otto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/439d5e/32.png) [@Dag\_Otto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dag_Otto)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2005, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/superdome-evacuation-stopped-after-shots-fired-at-helicopter/319576/28 "2005-09-01T15:28:44Z")
> [@hajario](#): > > Yes, they do and my point is that it’s a bad idea to carry that out. I’m not sure I follow. Anyone using weapons to hamper the evacuation efforts should be allowed to carry on? ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2005, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/superdome-evacuation-stopped-after-shots-fired-at-helicopter/319576/29 "2005-09-01T15:29:14Z")
> [@zut](#): > > I’m willing to bet that reports like these are stories that have grown in the telling, and that the armed gangs taking over buildings are really just a couple scared guys with pistols. And, seriously, I hope I’m right. I am certain that you are right, as I alluded to earlier. The first reports after 9/11 estimated that well over 10,000 probably died in the towers alone. They said it would take five to ten years to rebuild the freeway system in L.A. after the last big earthquake (it was like eight months.) This is what always happens. Hysteria begets more hysteria. ---
**Author:** ![bordelond](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bordelond/32/150_2.png) [@bordelond](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bordelond)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2005, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/superdome-evacuation-stopped-after-shots-fired-at-helicopter/319576/30 "2005-09-01T15:40:24Z")
> [@Dag Otto](#): > > I’m not sure I follow. Anyone using weapons to hamper the evacuation efforts should be allowed to carry on? I’m waiting to read the answer to this, as well. ---
**Author:** ![buttonjockey308](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bcef8e/32.png) [@buttonjockey308](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/buttonjockey308)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2005, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/superdome-evacuation-stopped-after-shots-fired-at-helicopter/319576/31 "2005-09-01T15:41:54Z")
Here are two seperate quotes, from two seperate stories… [Here](http://electroniciraq.net/cgi-bin/artman/exec/view.cgi/14/675) One had a grenade in his hand, another a machine gun. Stepping over the dead bodies were men coming out of a building, their arms laden with looted goods. And [Here](http://www.mg.co.za/articlePage.aspx?articleid=249729&area=/breaking_news/breaking_news__international_news/) One nurse told how helicopters evacuating patients from a local hospital had been fired upon. There were also reports of men armed with automatic rifles opening fire in a police station. Without looking at the tags, which is Iraq, which is New Orleans? It’s time. Kill 'em, tag 'em, stack the bodies like cord wood, and put their names on a list so their families can come claim 'em. It’s just time. Fuckers. ---
**Author:** ![Dag\_Otto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/439d5e/32.png) [@Dag\_Otto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dag_Otto)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2005, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/superdome-evacuation-stopped-after-shots-fired-at-helicopter/319576/32 "2005-09-01T15:51:18Z")
> [@buttonjockey308](#): > > It’s time. Kill 'em, tag 'em, stack the bodies like cord wood, and put their names on a list so their families can come claim 'em. No. Just kill them, secure the weapon, and let the police get back to search and rescue efforts. ---
**Author:** ![bordelond](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bordelond/32/150_2.png) [@bordelond](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bordelond)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2005, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/superdome-evacuation-stopped-after-shots-fired-at-helicopter/319576/33 "2005-09-01T15:59:22Z")
> [@hajario](#): > > Yes, they do and my point is that it’s a bad idea to carry that out. C’mon, **hajario** – you can’t just say that and not have an alternative at the ready. ---
**Author:** ![Hippy\_Hollow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hippy_hollow/32/4841_2.png) [@Hippy\_Hollow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hippy_Hollow)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2005, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/superdome-evacuation-stopped-after-shots-fired-at-helicopter/319576/34 "2005-09-01T15:59:58Z")
Have I been whooshed here? Let me review what’s going on here: Rescuers are venturing into neighborhoods where mob rule has been in effect for several days. Some shots are fired at rescuers. The response is to suspend rescue efforts? We have a military. Shouldn’t they be dispatched to any location where shooting is taking place? My suspicion is that the first sight of a military helicopter and soldiers would more or less end the shooting. Those men and women are experts in diffusing situations such as these. The people who truly need help are suffering because there isn’t a plan in place that puts saving lives first. I have to question the logic of conducting a rescue operation in a place that is sweltering hot, where people are without food and water, and in a state of panic WITHOUT a military presence. Bullhorns warning anyone within earshot that soldiers are present and will put down any lawlessness during a rescue operation, and that help is on the way. (And of course the idiots firing at the choppers deserve a beatdown. But it’s indicative of a poorly planned evacuation, IMHO.) ---
**Author:** ![D\_Odds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/d_odds/32/2882_2.png) [@D\_Odds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Odds)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2005, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/superdome-evacuation-stopped-after-shots-fired-at-helicopter/319576/35 "2005-09-01T16:08:10Z")
> [@Poonther](#): > > Could this have been avoided a little better if the President had come back from vacation and started plans for helping the vicitims out on Monday and not Tuesday? I think it was poor judgement on Bush’s part to go to San Diego on Monday and try and talk up support for the War when the Gulf Coast was devistated. Yes I know the flooding really began on Tuesday, but they had been warned it would happen. > > I am not trying to blame it all on Bush, most of it would have happend anyway, but wouldn’t it have been better for the President to be proactive instead of reactive? Perhaps he could have mobilized FEMA before the hurricane struck…oh wait, contrary to standard procedure, he did that. You **are** trying to blame it on Bush, ignoring fact for soundbite, and making me sick because I have to stick up for one of the, if not the, worst president in my lifetime. ---
**Author:** ![Duke\_of\_Rat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Duke\_of\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duke_of_Rat)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2005, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/superdome-evacuation-stopped-after-shots-fired-at-helicopter/319576/36 "2005-09-01T16:13:11Z")
> [@Hippy Hollow](#): > > Have I been whooshed here? > > My suspicion is that the first sight of a military helicopter and soldiers would more or less end the shooting. Welcome to your [Whoosh!](http://news.independent.co.uk/world/americas/article309568.ece) [quote] The evacuation of people affected by Hurricane Katrina from New Orleans’ Superdome was disrupted today after shots were reportedly fired at a military helicopter > [@](#): > > He said that military would not fly out of the Superdome either because of the gunfire ---
**Author:** ![bordelond](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bordelond/32/150_2.png) [@bordelond](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bordelond)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2005, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/superdome-evacuation-stopped-after-shots-fired-at-helicopter/319576/37 "2005-09-01T16:16:27Z")
So many people in this thread don’t understand what’s happening. See that stuff you’re seeing on the national news? The situation is ten times worse than that. Simple looters of merchandise aren’t even a concern at this point. ---
**Author:** ![Hippy\_Hollow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hippy_hollow/32/4841_2.png) [@Hippy\_Hollow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hippy_Hollow)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2005, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/superdome-evacuation-stopped-after-shots-fired-at-helicopter/319576/38 "2005-09-01T16:18:43Z")
thanks for that, **Duke of Rat** … astonishing! Surely this can be resolved by putting troops on the ground in sizeable numbers to ensure an orderly evacuation. I would expect people to be going absolutely apeshit once a bus appears, so as many troops as possible should be there, I would think. ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2005, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/superdome-evacuation-stopped-after-shots-fired-at-helicopter/319576/39 "2005-09-01T16:27:06Z")
Sorry, guys, I am working and I had to deal with a few phone calls. I suppose that I have been a little half assed here and there probably are situations where lethal force would be effective. ---
**Author:** ![Clothahump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/51bf81/32.png) [@Clothahump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Clothahump)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2005, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/superdome-evacuation-stopped-after-shots-fired-at-helicopter/319576/40 "2005-09-01T16:33:56Z")
We need to put the cops and National Guard on a simple rule: shoot all looters on sight; do not attempt to apprehend. Same for anyone seen carrying a weapon. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/superdome-evacuation-stopped-after-shots-fired-at-helicopter/319576.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/superdome-evacuation-stopped-after-shots-fired-at-helicopter/319576.md?page=3)