# Superdome Evacuation Stopped After Shots Fired At Helicopter **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [September 1, 2005, 12:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/superdome-evacuation-stopped-after-shots-fired-at-helicopter/319576 "2005-09-01T12:48:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Askia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/96bed5/32.png) [@Askia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Askia)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2005, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/superdome-evacuation-stopped-after-shots-fired-at-helicopter/319576/61 "2005-09-01T17:57:27Z")
I can verify the shit you’ve been slinging versus the actual confirmed facts I’ve been seeing on cable news and the internet. You’re not looking too hot, son. ---
**Author:** ![Winnie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e480ec/32.png) [@Winnie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Winnie)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2005, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/superdome-evacuation-stopped-after-shots-fired-at-helicopter/319576/62 "2005-09-01T17:58:17Z")
> [@UncleBeer](#): > > What the fucking hell are you talking about? The fourth paragraph of your own fucking link says the opposite of what you claim: > > “Despite the violence, a National Guard commander said the evacuation hasn’t been affected.” > > And the subheading under the article title says: > > “Able-Bodied Evacuees Still Being Moved To Astrodome” > > I can’t imagine what your objective here is by making such a patently false claim. But you’ve certainly stirred up a nice brew of shit soup. Asshole. In fact, mebbe you oughtta read your goddamned SDMB membership agreement again. Specificially the part about knowingly posting false information. Fuckin’ useless jerkoff. Wow I come back from endless meetings and lunch to find myself being called an asshole in my first pit thread. I feel like I belong now! In any case, I just figured out that this link has changed content 3 times since I posted it. It’s not even the same story that I posted this morning. What the eff, News 4? And sorry for being an emotional citizen reacting to news I not only heard on the radio 3 times on the way to work but on the local news website that I frequent all day. I didn’t post that link “knowingly” with false information to brew shit and start a war. Sorry if the worry of loved ones and the families of friends is on my mind and anything hindering their safety and rescue gets me fired up enough to make sure everyone knows about it. There’s no objective, there’s no secret plan to stir up shit soup because I need to get a rise out of people. ---
**Author:** ![bordelond](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bordelond/32/150_2.png) [@bordelond](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bordelond)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2005, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/superdome-evacuation-stopped-after-shots-fired-at-helicopter/319576/63 "2005-09-01T18:01:30Z")
> [@Askia](#): > > I can verify the shit you’ve been slinging versus the actual confirmed facts I’ve been seeing on cable news and the internet. You’re not looking too hot, son. We’ll see. ---
**Author:** ![Askia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/96bed5/32.png) [@Askia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Askia)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2005, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/superdome-evacuation-stopped-after-shots-fired-at-helicopter/319576/64 "2005-09-01T18:04:28Z")
Fair enough. ---
**Author:** ![bordelond](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bordelond/32/150_2.png) [@bordelond](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bordelond)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2005, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/superdome-evacuation-stopped-after-shots-fired-at-helicopter/319576/65 "2005-09-01T18:04:48Z")
> [@Winnie](#): > > And sorry for being an emotional citizen reacting to news I not only heard on the radio 3 times on the way to work but on the local news website that I frequent all day. I didn’t post that link “knowingly” with false information to brew shit and start a war. Sorry if the worry of loved ones and the families of friends is on my mind and anything hindering their safety and rescue gets me fired up enough to make sure everyone knows about it. There’s no objective, there’s no secret plan to stir up shit soup because I need to get a rise out of people. Seconded. Look, **Snowboarder** and **Askia** – if all the ground-level word-of-mouth reports end up being untrue, then that’s great news to me. Evacuations will continue, and most everyone will get out safe and sound. But right now, I’m not willing to give the Net and national cable news the benefit of doubt yet. Maybe later. ---
**Author:** ![joyfool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/df788c/32.png) [@joyfool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/joyfool)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2005, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/superdome-evacuation-stopped-after-shots-fired-at-helicopter/319576/66 "2005-09-01T18:15:50Z")
> [@wolf\_meister](#): > > Could we assume a person running out of a “Best Buy” or “Circuit City” with a carton of CD players is _not_ doing that for humanitarian reasons? But what if that person lives right around the corner? And has taken the only thing they own left that they feel they may be able to bargain with? Or is this a case of breaking a few eggs (or many) to make an omelet? Also, anyone want to address this perspective? > [@Phnord Prephect](#): > > Just over 200 years from Innocent Until Proven Guilty to Go Ahead and Shoot. Two good centuries of Right To Bear Arms before that is punishable by death without trial. > > Og forbid I try to carry my computer, not only my most valuable portable possession but also the source of my income, away from my flooded home, while being a black male. Even worse if I should try to defend myself by carrying, in plain view, my licenced handgun. > > Just shoot me now, please. > > Of course, if you’re a homeowner, and someone’s looting your home, yeah. Go ahead and shoot. THAT is gonna be justified. > > Taking potshots at anybody with items and/or weapons isn’t. I believe **Phnord** brings up some very good observations. What do y’all think? ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2005, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/superdome-evacuation-stopped-after-shots-fired-at-helicopter/319576/67 "2005-09-01T18:17:48Z")
It just keeps getting worse. Where is the Army & National Guard. My Brother-In-Law and Sister-In-Law stayed to help out in the emergency. They are acting as part of the staff at Charity. He’s a doctor and she is a Research Biologist with Tulane. Now the Aid workers need Aid and animals are preventing the helo’s from completing the evacuation. **From [CNN](http://www.cnn.com/2005/HEALTH/09/01/katrina.hospitals.ap/index.html)** Marooned doctors plead ‘Please help us’ Unruly crowds disrupt, prevent hospital evacuations \ ---
**Author:** ![bordelond](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bordelond/32/150_2.png) [@bordelond](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bordelond)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2005, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/superdome-evacuation-stopped-after-shots-fired-at-helicopter/319576/68 "2005-09-01T18:18:41Z")
> [@faithfool](#): > > I believe **Phnord** brings up some very good observations. What do y’all think? **Phnord** brings up the obvious: Don’t waste time on looters and thieves. Concentrate on anyone violently interfering with aid workers and evacuation efforts. ---
**Author:** ![alphaboi867](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alphaboi867/32/3898_2.png) [@alphaboi867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alphaboi867)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2005, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/superdome-evacuation-stopped-after-shots-fired-at-helicopter/319576/69 "2005-09-01T18:20:11Z")
> [@wolf\_meister](#): > > I believe when Martial Law has been declared, looters can be shot (up to and including _deadly_ force.) > In this case, these sleazeballs have gone WAY past the looting stage and are now into attempted murder. Are these jerks shooting at helicopters because they feel that the rescuers might be intruding on their looting activities? > As you may also have heard, almost all police officers have been taken off rescue duty so they can pursue shitheads like these. > I hope that by shooting at the helicopter, these cesspool dwellers have signed their death warrant. I don’t think many folks would be upset if they met up with a fatal encounter with the law. OR even left behind. Martial law has not and cannot be declared in Louisiana. LA does allow lethal force to be used to protect property, but only by the actual owners of said property. That being said I have no problem with police/soldiers shooting (to kill) anyone to moment they pull a gun. When people were looting food and diapers it wasn’t a problem. Jewelry and electronics? wrong? yes, major threat to public safety? No! But gunstores! Order must be maintained at all costs so that people can be safely evacuted. We have armed bandits attacking children’s hospitals and people are trapped in their homes cause search & rescure teams are being shot at. Civil liberties don’t mean a damn thing when you’re dying of thirst, disease, lack of basic medical care. The gov’t must restore order by any means necessary. If that means stringing looters up in the streets so be it. ---
**Author:** ![bordelond](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bordelond/32/150_2.png) [@bordelond](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bordelond)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2005, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/superdome-evacuation-stopped-after-shots-fired-at-helicopter/319576/70 "2005-09-01T18:24:46Z")
\*\*Alphaboi \*\* – where are you? Are you displaced? ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2005, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/superdome-evacuation-stopped-after-shots-fired-at-helicopter/319576/71 "2005-09-01T18:24:59Z")
> [@bordelond](#): > > **Phnord** brings up the obvious: Don’t waste time on looters and thieves. Concentrate on anyone violently interfering with aid workers and evacuation efforts. Thanks for reigning in a bit, **bord**. FWIW, I can wholly agree with this sentiment. ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Mudd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f14d63/32.png) [@Larry\_Mudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Mudd)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2005, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/superdome-evacuation-stopped-after-shots-fired-at-helicopter/319576/72 "2005-09-01T18:25:40Z")
> [@bordelond](#): > > I know it’s been advocated elsewhere. But nobody in this thread is saying “willy-nilly executions”. I’m aware that you’ve clarified what you mean by “looters,” and pray to whoever’s listening that there aren’t 1,000 of them to put down. But at least one person in this thread advocates willy-nilly executions: > [@Clothahump](#): > > We need to put the cops and National Guard on a simple rule: shoot all looters on sight; do not attempt to apprehend. Same for anyone seen carrying a weapon. I can sympathize if the statement is so profoundly offensive and stupid that your rational mind simply blocked it out. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2005, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/superdome-evacuation-stopped-after-shots-fired-at-helicopter/319576/73 "2005-09-01T18:27:17Z")
btw, am I the only person who is thinking “gee, if all our soldiers weren’t so busy in Iraq, I bet we could do more to help **our own fucking citizens** ”… or is that just me thinking that? ---
**Author:** ![MsRobyn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/90ced4/32.png) [@MsRobyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MsRobyn)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2005, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/superdome-evacuation-stopped-after-shots-fired-at-helicopter/319576/74 "2005-09-01T18:28:08Z")
> [@Hippy Hollow](#): > > We have a military. Shouldn’t they be dispatched to any location where shooting is taking place? Negative. The posse comitatus law forbids the miltary from performing law enforcement activities in the United States except under certain circumstances. Maintaining order is not the same as law enforcement authority. > [@](#): > > My suspicion is that the first sight of a military helicopter and soldiers would more or less end the shooting. Maybe, maybe not. > [@](#): > > Those men and women are experts in diffusing situations such as these. Negative. The military in general is good at one thing and one thing only: breaking things. If there’s one thing that we as a country need to learn, if the past 15 years haven’t already, the military is not properly equipped or trained to be peacekeepers. That is not their function. > [@](#): > > I have to question the logic of conducting a rescue operation in a place that is sweltering hot, where people are without food and water, and in a state of panic WITHOUT a military presence. Bullhorns warning anyone within earshot that soldiers are present and will put down any lawlessness during a rescue operation, and that help is on the way. There’s nothing at all illogical about it. Military presence should not be necessary in this situation. This is strictly speaking a civil matter. The military can assist with men and equipment, but I repeat that soldiers are not law enforcement officers. > [@](#): > > (And of course the idiots firing at the choppers deserve a beatdown. But it’s indicative of a poorly planned evacuation, IMHO.) How do you plan for the rescue of large numbers of people from a large city? Do you just guess where they’ll be and how many there will be? And do you think that in that planning you should factor in random nutjobs who find shooting at relief workers more important than getting out alive? That’s a bit ridiculous, I think. This rescue is going about as well as could be expected given the circumstances. ---
**Author:** ![Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e36b37/32.png) [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airman_Doors_USAF)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2005, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/superdome-evacuation-stopped-after-shots-fired-at-helicopter/319576/75 "2005-09-01T18:30:24Z")
Sorry. The above post was me, not Robin. We’re sharing the university’s computer. We don’t have this problem at home anymore. ---
**Author:** ![Giraffe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giraffe/32/129_2.png) [@Giraffe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giraffe)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2005, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/superdome-evacuation-stopped-after-shots-fired-at-helicopter/319576/76 "2005-09-01T18:35:20Z")
> [@jrfranchi\*\*From \[CNN](#): > > ([http://www.cnn.com/2005/HEALTH/09/01/katrina.hospitals.ap/index.html](http://www.cnn.com/2005/HEALTH/09/01/katrina.hospitals.ap/index.html))\*\* > Marooned doctors plead ‘Please help us’ > Unruly crowds disrupt, prevent hospital evacuations > > \ **jrfranchi** , we don’t allow reposting of copyrighted material. Selected quotes are fine, the complete text of an article is not. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2005, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/superdome-evacuation-stopped-after-shots-fired-at-helicopter/319576/77 "2005-09-01T18:35:41Z")
> [@MsRobyn](#): > > …snip… > Negative. The military in general is good at one thing and one thing only: breaking things. If there’s one thing that we as a country need to learn, if the past 15 years haven’t already, the military is not properly equipped or trained to be peacekeepers. That is not their function. > > There’s nothing at all illogical about it. Military presence should not be necessary in this situation. This is strictly speaking a civil matter. The military can assist with men and equipment, but I repeat that soldiers are not law enforcement officers. The military has been damn good at building things in emergencies also. There were temporary bridges built in France in 1944 that were still in use in the 80’s. The SeeBees and Army Core of Engineering probably have more experience in building sea walls than FEMA will ever have. The Rescue Buses could and should have escort vehicles being that desperate people are shooting at them for no reason. The Police & Nat’l guard should do the actual police work, but the Army can and should act as guards and escorts. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2005, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/superdome-evacuation-stopped-after-shots-fired-at-helicopter/319576/78 "2005-09-01T18:39:21Z")
> [@Giraffe](#): > > **jrfranchi** , we don’t allow reposting of copyrighted material. Selected quotes are fine, the complete text of an article is not. Ok, sorry. ---
**Author:** ![Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e36b37/32.png) [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airman_Doors_USAF)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2005, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/superdome-evacuation-stopped-after-shots-fired-at-helicopter/319576/79 "2005-09-01T18:46:41Z")
> [@jrfranchi](#): > > The military has been damn good at building things in emergencies also. There were temporary bridges built in France in 1944 that were still in use in the 80’s. Like I said, “in general”. The Army Corps of Engineers and the Seabees are not going to be participating in any law enforcement activities, and my point was specifically referencing that. > [@](#): > > The Police & Nat’l guard should do the actual police work, but the Army can and should act as guards and escorts. No, they should not. And they cannot, by law. As a matter of fact, the National Guard, even when called up for civil disturbances, needs to be very careful about how they conduct themselves because they are not law enforcement. They can break up violent demonstrations, they can guard stuff, and they can detain, but they cannot arrest and they cannot just open up at the first shot fired and go to town. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2005, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/superdome-evacuation-stopped-after-shots-fired-at-helicopter/319576/80 "2005-09-01T18:54:04Z")
> [@Airman Doors](#): > > Like I said, “in general”. The Army Corps of Engineers and the Seabees are not going to be participating in any law enforcement activities, and my point was specifically referencing that. > > No, they should not. And they cannot, by law. As a matter of fact, the National Guard, even when called up for civil disturbances, needs to be very careful about how they conduct themselves because they are not law enforcement. They can break up violent demonstrations, they can guard stuff, and they can detain, but they cannot arrest and they cannot just open up at the first shot fired and go to town. I was replying to **MsRobyn** but, If martial law was declared, this changes the rules from what I remember. Were the reports of Martial law false? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/superdome-evacuation-stopped-after-shots-fired-at-helicopter/319576.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/superdome-evacuation-stopped-after-shots-fired-at-helicopter/319576.md?page=5)