# Superdome Evacuation Stopped After Shots Fired At Helicopter **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [September 1, 2005, 12:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/superdome-evacuation-stopped-after-shots-fired-at-helicopter/319576 "2005-09-01T12:48:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Askia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/96bed5/32.png) [@Askia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Askia)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2005, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/superdome-evacuation-stopped-after-shots-fired-at-helicopter/319576/101 "2005-09-01T19:58:32Z")
**bordelond.** Likewise, some of the rumors being reported now will be revealed to be hysteria that was either greatly exaggerated or never happened at all. It goes both ways. F’rinstance, some idiot taking potshots at a convoy with a handgun without hitting anybody is _not_ a fucking sniper. The convoy has not come under “sniper fire.” A mob who loots a Wal-Mart of guns and ammo is not an “armed gang.” There’s all kinds of language being used here to paint a picture that so far I’m not seeing. That kinda pisses me off. It’s exacerbating the seriousness of a dire situation needlessly. ---
**Author:** ![tnetennba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7993a0/32.png) [@tnetennba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tnetennba)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2005, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/superdome-evacuation-stopped-after-shots-fired-at-helicopter/319576/102 "2005-09-01T20:03:26Z")
> [@Askia](#): > > **bordelond.** Likewise, some of the rumors being reported now will be revealed to be hysteria that was either greatly exaggerated or never happened at all. It goes both ways. > > F’rinstance, some idiot taking potshots at a convoy with a handgun without hitting anybody is _not_ a fucking sniper. The convoy has not come under “sniper fire.” > > A mob who loots a Wal-Mart of guns and ammo is not an “armed gang.” > > There’s all kinds of language being used here to paint a picture that so far I’m not seeing. That kinda pisses me off. It’s exacerbating the seriousness of a dire situation needlessly. Yeah, it’s the LANGUAGE that’s really hurting those people who are getting raped and murdered. You are dumb. ---
**Author:** ![Fiveyearlurker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/da6949/32.png) [@Fiveyearlurker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiveyearlurker)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2005, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/superdome-evacuation-stopped-after-shots-fired-at-helicopter/319576/103 "2005-09-01T20:03:34Z")
> [@Winnie](#): > > Here’s the latest on the gunmen targeting the hospitals and medical supplies: > > [New Orleans’ Charity Hospital halted efforts to evacuate its patients after it came under sniper fire, according to Dr. Tyler Curiel, who witnessed the incidents.](http://www.cnn.com/2005/WEATHER/09/01/katrina.impact/index.html) Can I ask a perhaps naive question? What would the point of this be from the sniper’s perspective? I mean, the looting, whether it be for food or DVD players, at least I understand the motivation. But, would something like this just be for kicks? ---
**Author:** ![Askia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/96bed5/32.png) [@Askia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Askia)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2005, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/superdome-evacuation-stopped-after-shots-fired-at-helicopter/319576/104 "2005-09-01T20:07:31Z")
**cricetus.** I’ll ignore your little taunt merely to inquire that if there’s been actual reports of rape and murder, then kindly share when, where, involving whom? ---
**Author:** ![SlyFrog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a3d4f5/32.png) [@SlyFrog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlyFrog)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2005, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/superdome-evacuation-stopped-after-shots-fired-at-helicopter/319576/105 "2005-09-01T20:08:38Z")
Allow me to restate what I said days ago: welcome to the fundamental nature of man. I’m willing to bet that a lot of these reactions of wanting to blow away the looters is because of a secret fear that this is what a certain subset of the population wants to do, and would do, if not held in check by normal bonds of authority and civilization. I think it is a natural (but dangerous) reaction that some people have to almost want to draw them out in events like this so they can be eliminated. ---
**Author:** ![bordelond](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bordelond/32/150_2.png) [@bordelond](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bordelond)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2005, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/superdome-evacuation-stopped-after-shots-fired-at-helicopter/319576/106 "2005-09-01T20:10:20Z")
> [@Askia](#): > > **bordelond.** Likewise, some of the rumors being reported now will be revealed to be hysteria that was either greatly exaggerated or never happened at all. It goes both ways. Granted. > [@Askia](#): > > F’rinstance, some idiot taking potshots at a convoy with a handgun without hitting anybody is _not_ a fucking sniper. The convoy has not come under “sniper fire.” I’m not convinced this is a distinction worth making. I think I know where you are going with that, but I think your take minimizes the danger actually being faced out there (to the best of my knowledge). > [@Askia](#): > > A mob who loots a Wal-Mart of guns and ammo is not an “armed gang.” My understanding is that this is how many of whatever armed gangs are out there got their weapons to begin with. They walked in as looters, and walked out as an armed gang. ---
**Author:** ![bordelond](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bordelond/32/150_2.png) [@bordelond](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bordelond)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2005, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/superdome-evacuation-stopped-after-shots-fired-at-helicopter/319576/107 "2005-09-01T20:12:41Z")
> [@hajario](#): > > I’m not sure where you got that idea. A fifteen to twenty minute battle with semi-automatic weapons in an area with thousands of refugees would cause a fair amount of damage. As of now, there are concentrations of thousands of refugees in one place – besides the Superdome, that is. So on this point, you are correct. Catching pot-shotters on rooftops is a different matter. ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Mudd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f14d63/32.png) [@Larry\_Mudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Mudd)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2005, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/superdome-evacuation-stopped-after-shots-fired-at-helicopter/319576/108 "2005-09-01T20:15:47Z")
> [@Duke of Rat](#): > > Sorry, Larry. This can’t be right. It’s _not_ right. But it’s [happened](http://www.cnn.com/2005/WEATHER/09/01/katrina.impact/index.html). Not just there, either. > [@](#): > > "Hospitals are trying to evacuate,’’ said Coast Guard Lt. Cmdr. Cheri Ben-Iesan, spokesman at the city emergency operations center. "At every one of them, there are reports that as the helicopters come in people are shooting at them. There are people just taking pot shots at police and at helicopters, telling them, ‘You better come get my family.’’’ > > Richard Zuschlag, president of Acadian Ambulance Service Inc., described the chaos at a suburban hospital. > > "We tried to airlift supplies into Kenner Memorial Hospital late last evening and were confronted by an unruly crowd with guns, and the pilots refused to land,’’ he said. ---
**Author:** ![bordelond](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bordelond/32/150_2.png) [@bordelond](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bordelond)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2005, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/superdome-evacuation-stopped-after-shots-fired-at-helicopter/319576/109 "2005-09-01T20:16:06Z")
> [@Askia](#): > > **cricetus.** I’ll ignore your little taunt merely to inquire that if there’s been actual reports of rape and murder, then kindly share when, where, involving whom? My God – can you even imagine a scenario where murders are _not_ going on? Rapes? Who knows? Why not? I wouldn’t dismiss it out of hand. ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Mudd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f14d63/32.png) [@Larry\_Mudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Mudd)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2005, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/superdome-evacuation-stopped-after-shots-fired-at-helicopter/319576/110 "2005-09-01T20:17:20Z")
Sorry-- [link](http://www.startribune.com/stories/484/5591311.html). ---
**Author:** ![tnetennba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7993a0/32.png) [@tnetennba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tnetennba)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2005, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/superdome-evacuation-stopped-after-shots-fired-at-helicopter/319576/111 "2005-09-01T20:17:28Z")
> [@Askia](#): > > **cricetus.** I’ll ignore your little taunt merely to inquire that if there’s been actual reports of rape and murder, then kindly share when, where, involving whom? How about the link I provided earlier, from a person actually on the ground in New Orleans? [http://www.livejournal.com/users/interdictor/](http://www.livejournal.com/users/interdictor/) Instead of worrying about how people DESCRIBE what’s happening, why can’t you deal with the fact that it is, in fact, happening. If rescue vehicles are shot at by “snipers” or merely “people shooting at random shit” is hardly relevent. Why should you give a shit about what the media calls them? Are they not armed? Are they not thugs? Get your priorities straight, buddy. ---
**Author:** ![bordelond](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bordelond/32/150_2.png) [@bordelond](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bordelond)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2005, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/superdome-evacuation-stopped-after-shots-fired-at-helicopter/319576/112 "2005-09-01T20:21:51Z")
> [@cricetus](#): > > How about the link I provided earlier, from a person actually on the ground in New Orleans? [http://www.livejournal.com/users/interdictor/](http://www.livejournal.com/users/interdictor/) How people are dismissing such accounts out of hand, I don’t know. ---
**Author:** ![tnetennba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7993a0/32.png) [@tnetennba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tnetennba)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2005, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/superdome-evacuation-stopped-after-shots-fired-at-helicopter/319576/113 "2005-09-01T20:24:31Z")
> [@bordelond](#): > > How people are dismissing such accounts out of hand, I don’t know. Because it’s easier for them to just dismiss it all as rumors than accept what’s happening. I wonder if **Askia** is upset that the media keeps referring to Katrina as a “hurricane” when it was really just a “big blustery thing.” ---
**Author:** ![Shagnasty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9dc877/32.png) [@Shagnasty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shagnasty)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2005, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/superdome-evacuation-stopped-after-shots-fired-at-helicopter/319576/114 "2005-09-01T20:25:51Z")
> [@Askia](#): > > \*\*bordelond.\*\*A mob who loots a Wal-Mart of guns and ammo is not an “armed gang.” The mind 😕 . It looks like they were passing about extra helpings of brain tumor for breakfast this morning. ---
**Author:** ![Askia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/96bed5/32.png) [@Askia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Askia)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2005, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/superdome-evacuation-stopped-after-shots-fired-at-helicopter/319576/115 "2005-09-01T20:26:37Z")
> [@bordelond](#): > > My God – can you even imagine a scenario where murders are _not_ going on? Rapes? Who knows? Why not? I wouldn’t dismiss it out of hand. It’s – unusual – in my experience and observation, for people in survival mode after a natural disaster to rape and murder. Up 'til now, most of the looting has been motivated out of fear and worry. People don’t kill in survival mode until the situation goes on longer and gets more dire. New Orleans is beginning to get aid, and is not there yet. When those three hurricanes whent through Florida last year, there was looting, too. You damn sure didn’t hear all this criminalization of victims, though. ---
**Author:** ![Askia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/96bed5/32.png) [@Askia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Askia)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2005, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/superdome-evacuation-stopped-after-shots-fired-at-helicopter/319576/116 "2005-09-01T20:27:40Z")
> [@Shagnasty](#): > > The mind 😕 . It looks like they were passing about extra helpings of brain tumor for breakfast this morning. Was it yours, bitch? ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2005, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/superdome-evacuation-stopped-after-shots-fired-at-helicopter/319576/117 "2005-09-01T20:29:12Z")
> [@Askia](#): > > It’s – unusual – in my experience and observation, for people in survival mode after a natural disaster to rape and murder. Up 'til now, most of the looting has been motivated out of fear and worry. People don’t kill in survival mode until the situation goes on longer and gets more dire. New Orleans is beginning to get aid, and is not there yet. > > When those three hurricanes whent through Florida last year, there was looting, too. You damn sure didn’t hear all this criminalization of victims, though. You appear to be choosing to ignore the shots being fired at rescue workers and helicopters. The armed robberies of a hospital for Narcotics. ---
**Author:** ![Shagnasty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9dc877/32.png) [@Shagnasty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shagnasty)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2005, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/superdome-evacuation-stopped-after-shots-fired-at-helicopter/319576/118 "2005-09-01T20:33:53Z")
> [@Askia](#): > > When those three hurricanes whent through Florida last year, there was looting, too. You damn sure didn’t hear all this criminalization of victims, though. I can’t even think like you do even if I try to do it as a parody excercise. 1. South Florida is not New Orleans. The cultures are very different. 2. Most people in Florida could move to a more comfortable and safe area with at least some relief. They are trapped in New Orleans. 3. You have gangs of thugs who have captive victims and are captive themselves. That is not a good recipe. **Being a victim does not mean that you cannot be a criminal. The two are not mutually exclusive.** All this noble savage shit is delusional. ---
**Author:** ![bordelond](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bordelond/32/150_2.png) [@bordelond](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bordelond)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2005, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/superdome-evacuation-stopped-after-shots-fired-at-helicopter/319576/119 "2005-09-01T20:36:25Z")
> [@Askia](#): > > When those three hurricanes whent through Florida last year, there was looting, too. You damn sure didn’t hear all this criminalization of victims, though. Things are different now. All the “rules” and “conventional wisdom” and “last time, it was like this” are being thrown out the window. ---
**Author:** ![Askia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/96bed5/32.png) [@Askia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Askia)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2005, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/superdome-evacuation-stopped-after-shots-fired-at-helicopter/319576/120 "2005-09-01T20:39:43Z")
Firstly, I can’t seem to post as fast I want to. Some of my comments in Preview are appearing out of order. > [@cricetus](#): > > Instead of worrying about how people DESCRIBE what’s happening, why can’t you deal with the fact that it is, in fact, happening. If rescue vehicles are shot at by “snipers” or merely “people shooting at random shit” is hardly relevent. Why should you give a shit about what the media calls them? Are they not armed? Are they not thugs? Get your priorities straight, buddy. Why are you insisting I get as hysterical as you? I am looking at the facts dispassionately and some of the terms being used are _wrong._ We’re in the midst of a war with Iraq and the use of the word sniper applied to untrained, frustrated, civilians who are trapped in a disaster area with dwindling food and water supplies is wrong. **jrfranchi.** I’m not _ignoring_ reports, per se. I am listening, evaluating and questioning what i’m hearing, skeptically, since passions appear to running high. I am earnestly interested in how much has been reported accurately and forthrightly. > [@](#): > > Things are different now. All the “rules” and “conventional wisdom” and “last time, it was like this” are being thrown out the window. I agree with this. I do not see on TV (so far) the level and range of criminal misconduct of rape, sniper attacks, etc. y’all are claiming. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/superdome-evacuation-stopped-after-shots-fired-at-helicopter/319576.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/superdome-evacuation-stopped-after-shots-fired-at-helicopter/319576.md?page=7)