# Superdome Evacuation Stopped After Shots Fired At Helicopter **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [September 1, 2005, 12:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/superdome-evacuation-stopped-after-shots-fired-at-helicopter/319576 "2005-09-01T12:48:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![The\_Weird\_One](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7bcc69/32.png) [@The\_Weird\_One](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Weird_One)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2005, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/superdome-evacuation-stopped-after-shots-fired-at-helicopter/319576/121 "2005-09-01T20:42:16Z")
**Askia** , Florida had hurricanes; Florida had looting. I DON’T GIVE A SHIT ABOUT THE LOOTING AND NEITHER DO MOST PEOPLE HERE! They can have all the big-screen TVs they want, for all the good it’ll do them. It’s when they start hampering evacuation and rescue efforts that I get pissed. It’s when they do so BY SHOOTING AT RESCUERS that I say, “Who cares if I’m a Quaker? Fire on the bastards!” You want your family rescued? Then go the fuck back to your family and put a white sheet on the roof or do something to attract the attention of the other copters that are _flying over the city looking for people to rescue._ ---
**Author:** ![The\_Weird\_One](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7bcc69/32.png) [@The\_Weird\_One](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Weird_One)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2005, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/superdome-evacuation-stopped-after-shots-fired-at-helicopter/319576/122 "2005-09-01T20:46:33Z")
> [@Askia](#): > > I agree with this. I do not see on TV (so far) the level and range of criminal misconduct of rape, sniper attacks, etc. y’all are claiming. So you want a news crew in a helicopter to go out and get footage of people shooting at helicopters? Brilliant! ---
**Author:** ![Askia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/96bed5/32.png) [@Askia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Askia)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2005, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/superdome-evacuation-stopped-after-shots-fired-at-helicopter/319576/123 "2005-09-01T20:53:06Z")
> [@Shagnasty](#): > > I can’t even think like you do even if I try to do it as a parody excercise. That’s to be expected. **1) South Florida is not New Orleans. The cultures are very different.** Cultures, sure. Human nature? Not so much. Basic human reactions regarding the loss of homes, food, water, shelter, power, death and missing family members are generally the same. All would tend to subdue urges to go out and randomly cause chaos. Even people who were taking potshots at helicopters were acting in panic, saying things like, “You better take my family out of here!” That is not thuggish behavior. **2) Most people in Florida could move to a more comfortable and safe area with at least some relief. They are trapped in New Orleans.** And the weather was not as hot and sticky and it was more rural, I get it. It’s bad, sure, it’s just not a recipe for the anarchy you guys are claiming. **3) You have gangs of thugs who have captive victims and are captive themselves. That is not a good recipe**. We have alleged unsubstantiated reports of gangs of thugs. I have heard no reports of captive victims. There’s plenty of anecdotes of mob activity, just not gangs. Gangs are organized. Mobs are not. **Being a victim does not mean that you cannot be a criminal. The two are not mutually exclusive.** Just because you do something that’s against the law when society breaks down out of survive doesn’'t make you a criminal if nobody’s faulting you or prosecuting you. **All this noble savage shit is delusional.** “Savage” eh? You nasty, **Shag.** ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2005, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/superdome-evacuation-stopped-after-shots-fired-at-helicopter/319576/124 "2005-09-01T20:55:55Z")
> [@Fiveyearlurker](#): > > Can I ask a perhaps naive question? What would the point of this be from the sniper’s perspective? I mean, the looting, whether it be for food or DVD players, at least I understand the motivation. But, would something like this just be for kicks? Well, according to the quote that **Larry Mudd** posted, it seems that at least some of them are doing it **in a desperate attempt to intimidate rescue workers into coming to help them:** > [@](#): > > "Hospitals are trying to evacuate,’’ said Coast Guard Lt. Cmdr. Cheri Ben-Iesan, spokesman at the city emergency operations center. "At every one of them, there are reports that as the helicopters come in people are shooting at them. There are people just taking pot shots at police and at helicopters, telling them, ‘You better come get my family.’’’ In other words, the message seems to be “Forget about the folks in the hospital, come rescue my starving/trapped/drowning/whatever family, or I’ll shoot you.” This strategy seems to me, at the very least, **way** counterproductive (as well as immoral, reckless, and possibly suicidal). But it’s certainly more excusable than giddy criminals just playing target practice with rescue teams for the fun of it. (There may well be some of those out there too, of course, but that’s not what this particular report seems to be describing.) ---
**Author:** ![Askia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/96bed5/32.png) [@Askia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Askia)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2005, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/superdome-evacuation-stopped-after-shots-fired-at-helicopter/319576/125 "2005-09-01T20:57:49Z")
> [@The Weird One](#): > > **Askia** , Florida had hurricanes; Florida had looting. I DON’T GIVE A SHIT ABOUT THE LOOTING AND NEITHER DO MOST PEOPLE HERE! They can have all the big-screen TVs they want, for all the good it’ll do them. It’s when they start hampering evacuation and rescue efforts that I get pissed. It’s when they do so BY SHOOTING AT RESCUERS that I say, “Who cares if I’m a Quaker? Fire on the bastards!” You want your family rescued? Then go the fuck back to your family and put a white sheet on the roof or do something to attract the attention of the other copters that are _flying over the city looking for people to rescue._ One, you need to be a little Fonzie up in here. Two. One dickcheese “blasting they gat” is not “hampering rescue operations.” Three. Too many reports give the implication that the breakdown is organized and planned when it’s really just random and sporatic. No one’s been killed; I heard about maybe one injury. Chill the fuck out. **Kimstu.** Yes. That’s my take, too. Thank you for saying it. ---
**Author:** ![Clothahump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/51bf81/32.png) [@Clothahump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Clothahump)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2005, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/superdome-evacuation-stopped-after-shots-fired-at-helicopter/319576/126 "2005-09-01T20:58:03Z")
> [@Phnord Prephect](#): > > Just over 200 years from Innocent Until Proven Guilty to Go Ahead and Shoot. Two good centuries of Right To Bear Arms before that is punishable by death without trial. Dude, ever heard of Martial Law? ---
**Author:** ![Duke\_of\_Rat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Duke\_of\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duke_of_Rat)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2005, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/superdome-evacuation-stopped-after-shots-fired-at-helicopter/319576/127 "2005-09-01T21:03:08Z")
> [@Larry Mudd](#): > > It’s _not_ right. > > But it’s [happened](http://www.cnn.com/2005/WEATHER/09/01/katrina.impact/index.html). > Not just there, either. Sorry about that, Larry. I was having a bit of facetious fun with those here who insist that nobody is shooting at rescuers. I don’t doubt it at all. For all of the “There are no rapes going on, people are in survival mode” faction, I give you this: > [@](#): > > It’s raining now and I guess that’s a relief from the heat. It’s hot as hell down there in the sun. Crime is absolutely rampant: rapes, murders, rape-murder combinations. From the blog (I know, blogs aren’t cites) of the [crisis manager for DirectNIC](http://www.livejournal.com/users/interdictor/). ---
**Author:** ![Philster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/13edae/32.png) [@Philster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Philster)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2005, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/superdome-evacuation-stopped-after-shots-fired-at-helicopter/319576/128 "2005-09-01T21:04:19Z")
It’s a big giant shit-ball, and we’re all gonna have to take a bite. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2005, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/superdome-evacuation-stopped-after-shots-fired-at-helicopter/319576/129 "2005-09-01T21:06:44Z")
> [@hajario](#): > > I am certain that you are right, as I alluded to earlier. > > The first reports after 9/11 estimated that well over 10,000 probably died in the towers alone. They said it would take five to ten years to rebuild the freeway system in L.A. after the last big earthquake (it was like eight months.) This is what always happens. Hysteria begets more hysteria. Tell me about it. I live in Atlanta. You should see the ongoing Moronic Convergence around gas stations in town. ---
**Author:** ![Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e36b37/32.png) [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airman_Doors_USAF)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2005, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/superdome-evacuation-stopped-after-shots-fired-at-helicopter/319576/130 "2005-09-01T21:06:55Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Not entirely true. > > The active military forces cannot be used for law enforcement purposes, it’s true. The _Posse Commitatus_ Act makes that plain. It also applies to reserve and national guard units activated under federal authority. > > However, national guard troops activated under the authority of the state governor derive their authority from the state constitution, and may be deputized and act as law enforcement officers. Thank you for the clarification. I didn’t think that was the case. Much obliged. > [@](#): > > So, what can they really do to “stop … lawlessness”? **Bricker** cleared that up. > [@](#): > > Might this not be a situation where rule of law is ignored for a while? There is no such time. If there is even a hint of that on the behalf of government the outrage can be heard on the other side of the country. Example: Guantanamo Bay. And truthfully, that’s just a gray area.Imagine if the law were outright ignored. > [@](#): > > As you probably know, on May 4, 1970, the Ohio National Guard at Kent State University used deadly force without 1 shot ever being fired at them. > I don’t want to debate the events of that 35 year old incident. However, it does show that sometimes, the National Guard does a little bit more than just guard things. Hey, that’s not my deal, any more than My Lai or Abu Ghraib is. What’s done is done, and that’s not an example of how things are supposed to be done. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2005, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/superdome-evacuation-stopped-after-shots-fired-at-helicopter/319576/131 "2005-09-01T21:08:59Z")
> [@Aski a](#): > > One dickcheese “blasting they gat” is not “hampering rescue operations.” Strictly speaking, I’d say it is. Even one person loosing off firearms in the general direction or presence of rescue crew is making everybody’s job more dangerous, as well as scaring folks unnecessarily. Like I said, way counterproductive. For the most part, though, I’m inclined to agree with you that this is probably mostly a matter of desperate and frightened people losing their heads and trying to bully others into helping them. Doubtless there are **some** people running amok like soldiers in a sacked city, but most of the desperate folks are probably just trying to get away. ---
**Author:** ![Askia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/96bed5/32.png) [@Askia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Askia)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2005, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/superdome-evacuation-stopped-after-shots-fired-at-helicopter/319576/132 "2005-09-01T21:14:12Z")
\*\*“It’s raining now and I guess that’s a relief from the heat. It’s hot as hell down there in the sun. Crime is absolutely rampant: rapes, murders, rape-murder combinations.” \*\* Honestly? I don’t know how much of that is something the blogger actually witnessed and how much is just rumor he’s repeating. I’m noting this, but being skeptical. ---
**Author:** ![Askia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/96bed5/32.png) [@Askia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Askia)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2005, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/superdome-evacuation-stopped-after-shots-fired-at-helicopter/319576/133 "2005-09-01T21:15:49Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > Strictly speaking, I’d say it is. Strictly speaking, I agree. Realistically he’ll be beat down (if he’s lucky) and the rescue efforts will go on. ---
**Author:** ![tnetennba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7993a0/32.png) [@tnetennba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tnetennba)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2005, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/superdome-evacuation-stopped-after-shots-fired-at-helicopter/319576/134 "2005-09-01T21:16:42Z")
> [@Askia](#): > > Why are you insisting I get as hysterical as you? I am looking at the facts dispassionately and some of the terms being used are _wrong._ We’re in the midst of a war with Iraq and the use of the word sniper applied to untrained, frustrated, civilians who are trapped in a disaster area with dwindling food and water supplies is wrong. First of all, I’m not hysterical. I’m calmly looking at the news and understanding the facts. You, by contrast, are dispassionately dismissing reports. this is happening, you say. Because people wouldn’t do that. Never mind that they’re doing it. Na na na na na na. ---
**Author:** ![tnetennba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7993a0/32.png) [@tnetennba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tnetennba)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2005, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/superdome-evacuation-stopped-after-shots-fired-at-helicopter/319576/135 "2005-09-01T21:17:48Z")
> [@Askia](#): > > \*\*“It’s raining now and I guess that’s a relief from the heat. It’s hot as hell down there in the sun. Crime is absolutely rampant: rapes, murders, rape-murder combinations.” \*\* > > Honestly? I don’t know how much of that is something the blogger actually witnessed and how much is just rumor he’s repeating. > > I’m noting this, but being skeptical. I’m not convinced that people are dying. They’re probably napping. ---
**Author:** ![Duke\_of\_Rat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Duke\_of\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duke_of_Rat)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2005, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/superdome-evacuation-stopped-after-shots-fired-at-helicopter/319576/136 "2005-09-01T21:18:30Z")
> [@Askia](#): > > \*\*“It’s raining now and I guess that’s a relief from the heat. It’s hot as hell down there in the sun. Crime is absolutely rampant: rapes, murders, rape-murder combinations.” \*\* > > Honestly? I don’t know how much of that is something the blogger actually witnessed and how much is just rumor he’s repeating. > > I’m noting this, but being skeptical. Why not take a look at his blog, he has had pictures up, and live video feed. He has a lot of people commenting on his posts, presumably some have seen his pics and feed (it appears that his pics are on a downed server, but the video feed is still operating, I can’t watch here at work). He is apparently there, not just repeating what he has heard, but reporting what is going on around him. If it was a hoax, he sure has a lot of people backing him on it. ---
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2005, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/superdome-evacuation-stopped-after-shots-fired-at-helicopter/319576/137 "2005-09-01T21:23:55Z")
> [@Askia](#): > > **bordelond.** > F’rinstance, some idiot taking potshots at a convoy with a handgun without hitting anybody is _not_ a fucking sniper. The convoy has not come under “sniper fire.” Actually, he pretty much is a sniper. He might not be a very _effective_ sniper, but he’s a sniper nonetheless. ---
**Author:** ![tnetennba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7993a0/32.png) [@tnetennba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tnetennba)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2005, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/superdome-evacuation-stopped-after-shots-fired-at-helicopter/319576/138 "2005-09-01T21:28:00Z")
It gives me a warm glow to know how the victims of this disaster are aided by those Internet posters who justify, rationalize, and dismiss the behavior of the the armed thugs who are disrupting rescue efforts. I hope they will have a chance to personally thank you. ---
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2005, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/superdome-evacuation-stopped-after-shots-fired-at-helicopter/319576/139 "2005-09-01T21:30:11Z")
> [@Duke of Rat](#): > > Why not take a look at his blog, he has had pictures up, and live video feed. He has a lot of people commenting on his posts, presumably some have seen his pics and feed (it appears that his pics are on a downed server, but the video feed is still operating, I can’t watch here at work). > > He is apparently there, not just repeating what he has heard, but reporting what is going on around him. If it was a hoax, he sure has a lot of people backing him on it. Holy shit. If a tenth of what he says is true it is a nightmare beyond understanding. It really has the ring of truth. I hope I’m wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2005, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/superdome-evacuation-stopped-after-shots-fired-at-helicopter/319576/140 "2005-09-01T21:38:01Z")
Hey guys. [Look over here.](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=332878) Unfucking believable. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/superdome-evacuation-stopped-after-shots-fired-at-helicopter/319576.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/superdome-evacuation-stopped-after-shots-fired-at-helicopter/319576.md?page=8)