# Superdome Evacuation Stopped After Shots Fired At Helicopter **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [September 1, 2005, 12:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/superdome-evacuation-stopped-after-shots-fired-at-helicopter/319576 "2005-09-01T12:48:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2005, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/superdome-evacuation-stopped-after-shots-fired-at-helicopter/319576/161 "2005-09-01T23:49:19Z")
> [@faithfool](#): > > Furthermore, the thought of rape and murder is incomprehensible. It is indeed absolutely horrible, and I don’t mean to trivialize the tragedy of it. But don’t forget that even under ordinary circumstances, New Orleans would have on average nearly [one murder per day](http://www.freep.com/news/nw/neworleans22e_20050822.htm), and probably one or more rapes. It’s appalling and tragic that catastrophe makes lawlessness and violence worse, but it’s not as though the lawlessness and violence weren’t there already. All big cities have a hell of a lot of trauma and conflict going on in them at the best of times, and New Orleans ranks fairly high in that regard. It’s still absolutely horrible, though. > [@Euthanasiast](#): > > So, how do you find it possible to take away someone’s second amendment right when you can’t even stop them from drinking? I didn’t hear anybody talking about “taking away someone’s second amendment right”.\* What **Spectre** identified as the problem—correctly, IMHO—was what he described as our “love affair with guns”, what I called our “unhealthy gun culture”. The problem is not that people own guns, the problem is that so many people seem to have such twisted expectations about what wielding a gun can do for you. \*Personally, as long as the question’s come up, I actually **am** in favor of repealing the Second Amendment, but not because I want to ban guns or stop people from owning them. I don’t think there’s a problem with gun ownership _per se_; the problem is this distorted cultural perception of guns as something that magically guarantee you liberty and power, because it’s in the Constitution and all. No. Guns are dangerous, and most of the time they make things worse, not better. You should still be able to have them if you want them (if you’re responsible and law-abiding), just as you can drink alcohol if you want to, but let’s get rid of this perverted idolatrous mystique that they’re somehow automatically good for us, because it’s in the Constitution and all. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2005, 11:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/superdome-evacuation-stopped-after-shots-fired-at-helicopter/319576/162 "2005-09-01T23:51:16Z")
Any chance at all that the gun debate could be ignored. This tragedy has a lot to do with the lack of Nat’l Guardsman on the scene. What is taking so long to get a large force in place. How many additional lives are being lost because of the delays. Why is it so disorganized. I believe NYC had over 3000 Nat’l Guardsmen with 24 hour. As of noon today there were only 2800 in NO. How many days into this are we now, I can’t even keep it straight anymore. ---
**Author:** ![Euthanasiast](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/6f9a4e/32.png) [@Euthanasiast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euthanasiast)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2005, 11:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/superdome-evacuation-stopped-after-shots-fired-at-helicopter/319576/163 "2005-09-01T23:55:51Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > No. Guns are dangerous, and most of the time they make things worse, not better. I couldn’t disagree more, sorry. ---
**Author:** ![Harborwolf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@Harborwolf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Harborwolf)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2005, 12:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/superdome-evacuation-stopped-after-shots-fired-at-helicopter/319576/164 "2005-09-02T00:40:42Z")
> [@jrfranchi](#): > > Any chance at all that the gun debate could be ignored. This tragedy has a lot to do with the lack of Nat’l Guardsman on the scene. What is taking so long to get a large force in place. How many additional lives are being lost because of the delays. Why is it so disorganized. > > I believe NYC had over 3000 Nat’l Guardsmen with 24 hour. As of noon today there were only 2800 in NO. How many days into this are we now, I can’t even keep it straight anymore. Even after 9/11, NYC had an infrastructure on place. From what I’ve heard, NO has nothing. When you add in the flooding and the lack of civilization taking place, you have a logistical nightmare on your hands. And you can’t forget that Katrina hit a much wider chunk of land than the terrorists did. I’m confident that the authorities are doing whatever they can do to help, and I can understand how they would be unsure of where to start. This is a clusterfuck kids. Hard core fubar. ---
**Author:** ![Argent\_Towers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e8c25b/32.png) [@Argent\_Towers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Argent_Towers)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2005, 12:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/superdome-evacuation-stopped-after-shots-fired-at-helicopter/319576/165 "2005-09-02T00:50:44Z")
The way I see this, the troops might as well be in Mogadishu. Shoot to kill orders are perfectly reasonable. ---
**Author:** ![flickster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/7bcc69/32.png) [@flickster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/flickster)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2005, 12:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/superdome-evacuation-stopped-after-shots-fired-at-helicopter/319576/166 "2005-09-02T00:57:52Z")
I know of multiple crews from neighboring city fire departments that took rescue boats to NO only to pack back up and go home after being shot at while trying to rescue people. Can’t say as I blame them. Short of taking these animals out in a fire fight, I’m not sure how the city will ever regain control. I’d like to think this situation and reaction is unique to New Orleans, but the same may happen at any other large city. Or has NO’s past lax enforcement of violent crimes created this whole mess? ---
**Author:** ![ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e9bcb4/32.png) [@ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2005, 1:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/superdome-evacuation-stopped-after-shots-fired-at-helicopter/319576/167 "2005-09-02T01:15:20Z")
> [@flickster](#): > > I know of multiple crews from neighboring city fire departments that took rescue boats to NO only to pack back up and go home after being shot at while trying to rescue people. Can’t say as I blame them. Short of taking these animals out in a fire fight, I’m not sure how the city will ever regain control. I’d like to think this situation and reaction is unique to New Orleans, but the same may happen at any other large city. Or has NO’s past lax enforcement of violent crimes created this whole mess? A co-worker of mine who used to live in NO was basically telling me today: “What you see happening on TV right now? That is the kind of crap that has been lurking in NO for a long long time.” My gut reaction was that perhaps my friend had some racist tendancies that I hadn’t picked up on previously, but this situation is such a clusterfuck I don’t know up from down. My ethical compass that normally guides me through life relatively well, cannot seem to digest what the hell is going on. There are people a few hours down the road from NO who are still living a relatively “normal” life. There are people within the city of NO who are acting constructively and altruistically, whether they came with the external relief effort or were washed out of their lives and homes by Katrina and the flooding. I cannot comprehend the proverbial line in the sand that determines who (apart from the legitimately incapacitated victims) is part of the problem and who is part of the solution. ---
**Author:** ![Zabali\_Clawbane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/ecd19e/32.png) [@Zabali\_Clawbane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zabali_Clawbane)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2005, 1:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/superdome-evacuation-stopped-after-shots-fired-at-helicopter/319576/168 "2005-09-02T01:16:10Z")
> [@Askia](#): > > **cricetus.** I’ll ignore your little taunt merely to inquire that if there’s been actual reports of rape and murder, then kindly share when, where, involving whom? There are reports of rapes and beatings, if not murder: > [@from the article linked in the OP](#): > > New Orleans Police Chief Eddie Compass said there have been **reports of beatings and rapes at the convention center**. ---
**Author:** ![Argent\_Towers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e8c25b/32.png) [@Argent\_Towers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Argent_Towers)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2005, 1:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/superdome-evacuation-stopped-after-shots-fired-at-helicopter/319576/169 "2005-09-02T01:21:57Z")
> [@honeydewgrrl](#): > > My gut reaction was that perhaps my friend had some racist tendancies that I hadn’t picked up on previously, but this situation is such a clusterfuck I don’t know up from down. Crime is crime. What your friend says isn’t racism, it’s reason. ---
**Author:** ![EddyTeddyFreddy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eddyteddyfreddy/32/18796_2.png) [@EddyTeddyFreddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EddyTeddyFreddy)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2005, 1:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/superdome-evacuation-stopped-after-shots-fired-at-helicopter/319576/170 "2005-09-02T01:33:49Z")
> [@Askia](#): > > cricetus. I’ll ignore your little taunt merely to inquire that if there’s been actual reports of rape and murder, then kindly share when, where, involving whom? As of 9:39 Eastern Time, [cnn.com](http://cnn.com) was reporting [this:](http://www.cnn.com/2005/WEATHER/09/01/katrina.impact/index.html) > [@](#): > > The director of the Federal Emergency Management Agency, Michael Brown, said his agency was attempting to work “under conditions of urban warfare.” > > From the roof of a police station downtown late Thursday, groups of officers armed with rifles could be seen venturing out into the streets, while helicopters buzzed overhead and a shopping mall burned in the distance. > > Police warned a CNN crew to stay off the streets because of escalating danger, and cautioned others about attempted shootings and rapes by groups of young men. > > [snip] > > One displaced resident at the Louisiana Superdome, however, issued a warning to authorities who may be headed to the stadium, where up to 30,000 people had sought refuge after Monday’s hurricane and now await evacuation to Texas by bus. > > “Please don’t send the National Guard,” he said. “Send someone with a bullhorn outside the place that can talk to these people first.” > > He described scenes of lawlessness and desperation, with people simply dragging corpses into corners. > > “They have quite a few people running around here with guns,” he said. “You got these young teenage boys running around up here raping these girls.” > > Elsewhere, groups of armed men wandered the streets, buildings smoldered and people picked through stores for what they could find. This is the lead story on the website at this moment. If you click into it an hour from now it may well have changed. ---
**Author:** ![wolf\_meister](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolf_meister/32/15202_2.png) [@wolf\_meister](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolf_meister)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2005, 3:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/superdome-evacuation-stopped-after-shots-fired-at-helicopter/319576/171 "2005-09-02T03:38:43Z")
I remember reading a column in the Boston Globe (Nov 2004) and I believe the title was something like “Has America Lost Its Mind?” The columnist wrote about several incidents that occurred within that month such as: the brawl between nutty Detroit Piston fans and equally insane Indiana Pacers players; Dick Cheney in the Senate chamber telling one of the Senators to “go fuck yourself”. There were other incidents he cited (wish I could think of those). Anyway, the anarchy that has arisen in New Orleans seems to be indicative of how fucked up the mentality of some Americans has become. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2005, 12:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/superdome-evacuation-stopped-after-shots-fired-at-helicopter/319576/172 "2005-09-02T12:12:35Z")
My Brother-In-Law called 3am last night. The happiest I’ve ever been to be awakened at 3am. They and the rest of Charity Hospital were apparently air evac’d to a Lafayette Hospital. They said the staff were all okay but they lost 2 critical patients. Early news reports are saying there might finally be enough police/nat’l guard members to police the city. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Weird\_One](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7bcc69/32.png) [@The\_Weird\_One](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Weird_One)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2005, 1:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/superdome-evacuation-stopped-after-shots-fired-at-helicopter/319576/173 "2005-09-02T13:21:34Z")
**jrfranchi** , that’s great news! ---
**Author:** ![Weirddave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/919ad9/32.png) [@Weirddave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Weirddave)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2005, 2:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/superdome-evacuation-stopped-after-shots-fired-at-helicopter/319576/174 "2005-09-02T14:55:41Z")
> [@Spectre of Pithecanthropus](#): > > I hope all this makes some people think really, really hard about this country’s love affair with guns…laughably regulated guns, unnecessarily many guns, unnecessarily powerful guns, all available to people who. should. not. have them. Personally, I hope it makes some people think really, really hard about this country’s love affair with criminals…violent criminals, abnormally numerous criminals, absurdly psychotic criminals, all people who. should. not. be. on. the. streets. ---
**Author:** ![Scumpup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce73a5/32.png) [@Scumpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scumpup)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2005, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/superdome-evacuation-stopped-after-shots-fired-at-helicopter/319576/175 "2005-09-02T15:26:08Z")
> [@Spectre of Pithecanthropus](#): > > I hope all this makes some people think really, really hard about this country’s love affair with guns…laughably regulated guns, unnecessarily many guns, unnecessarily powerful guns, all available to people who. should. not. have them. Congratulations on being the first in this thread to try to exploit the chaos to advance your personal political agenda. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2005, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/superdome-evacuation-stopped-after-shots-fired-at-helicopter/319576/176 "2005-09-02T15:33:56Z")
The influx of new fresh troops and State authorized police from other states is bringing the chaos under control finally. Thankfully the police/Nat’l guard are smart enough to minimize the use of deadly force. The only dark news was I saw reports that dozens of the NO police have deserted. Thus they are maintaining the proud heritage as worst major police dept. in USA. All this is courtesy of [www.nola.com](http://www.nola.com) ---
**Author:** ![Ponder\_Stibbons](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ponder_stibbons/32/343_2.png) [@Ponder\_Stibbons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ponder_Stibbons)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2005, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/superdome-evacuation-stopped-after-shots-fired-at-helicopter/319576/177 "2005-09-02T15:53:23Z")
Hopefully, the influx of more troops and police can do something. Because things are really, really bad. I posted this in another thread but is germain to this one as well. From [here](http://www.nytimes.com/2005/09/02/national/nationalspecial/02storm.html?hp&ex=1125633600&en=d2abfacae2d859f8&ei=5094&partner=homepage): > [@The New York Times](#): > > Chaos and gunfire hampered efforts to evacuate the Superdome, and, Superintendent P. Edward Compass III of the New Orleans Police Department said, armed thugs have taken control of the secondary makeshift shelter at the convention center. Superintendent Compass said that the thugs repelled eight squads of 11 officers each he had sent to secure the place and that rapes and assaults were occurring unimpeded in the neighboring streets as criminals “preyed upon” passers-by, including stranded tourists. 88 police officers were not enough to even approach the convention center, let alone establish some sort of order. That’s some major fucked up. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Weird\_One](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7bcc69/32.png) [@The\_Weird\_One](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Weird_One)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2005, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/superdome-evacuation-stopped-after-shots-fired-at-helicopter/319576/178 "2005-09-02T15:59:29Z")
> [@jrfranchi](#): > > The influx of new fresh troops and State authorized police from other states is bringing the chaos under control finally. Thankfully the police/Nat’l guard are smart enough to minimize the use of deadly force. > > The only dark news was I saw reports that dozens of the NO police have deserted. Thus they are maintaining the proud heritage as worst major police dept. in USA. > > All this is courtesy of [www.nola.com](http://www.nola.com) Thanks for that link. I have to stop reading it now, it’s making me cry at work. The number of offers for help, people opening up their homes, helps balance out some of the terrible news. ---
**Author:** ![bordelond](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bordelond/32/150_2.png) [@bordelond](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bordelond)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2005, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/superdome-evacuation-stopped-after-shots-fired-at-helicopter/319576/179 "2005-09-02T16:02:06Z")
> [@Hentor the Barbarian](#): > > Really. Any news on the bit about the armed gunmen taking over a building, especially the Convention Center? **Hentor** – see above. Why didn’t you believe? I took that as a big _“Fuck 'em – it ain’t that bad”_ to all the folks in peril. ---
**Author:** ![even\_sven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dfb087/32.png) [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2005, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/superdome-evacuation-stopped-after-shots-fired-at-helicopter/319576/180 "2005-09-02T17:00:27Z")
Are we surprised? We left these people to be killed in a hurricane. All of those shopowners left. They got in their cars and left. But we never sent out busses for the rest. We in fact, _shut down_ the few ways the poor had to get out of the city. The poor and the elderly were left to die. Then, we never came for them. It’s been days without food, without water, without sanitation, surrounded by the dead and destruction. And still people don’t have a place to go. People are still stuck in the rising water not knowing if the rescuers will ever come for them. ANd when they start getting a little crazy, when they lose hope and start figureing that civilization is not going to help them now, we watch them on television and reassure ourselves that they were bad people to begin with. How would you conduct yourself if your city left you to die? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/superdome-evacuation-stopped-after-shots-fired-at-helicopter/319576.md?page=8) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/superdome-evacuation-stopped-after-shots-fired-at-helicopter/319576.md?page=10)