# Superhero and Villain Beginnings **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [May 10, 2002, 12:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/superhero-and-villain-beginnings/108269 "2002-05-10T12:55:52Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Saltire](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saltire/32/553_2.png) [@Saltire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saltire)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2002, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/superhero-and-villain-beginnings/108269/21 "2002-05-10T17:24:50Z")
Before someone corrects me, Magik actually didn’t have use of her mutant powers when she went to Limbo. They first manifested there. What I should have said was that while Belasco taught her sorcery, he didn’t make her a mutant. ---
**Author:** ![Doubting\_Robert](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e495f1/32.png) [@Doubting\_Robert](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doubting_Robert)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2002, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/superhero-and-villain-beginnings/108269/22 "2002-05-10T17:26:02Z")
To clarify my previous post, in the DC version, Eel O’Brian was a small-time crook, but he reformed about the time he got his stretching power. Hero created by villains: Swamp Thing. As originally told, Alex (sp?) Holland was in his lab when a time bomb set by persons wanting to steal or destroy his bio-restorative formula went off, dousing him with his bio-restorative formula and setting him on fire. He ran into the swamp, where the combination of the formula and the life forms in the swamp water transformed him into Swamp Thing. As retold by Alan Moore and elaborated by Moore, Veitch, Wheeler, and perhaps others, it is more complicated than that, but the explosion is still an important part of the origin (or at least, was up to issue 141 or so of Swamp Thing, second series. I haven’t read yet what happens in the next few issues - please don’t spoil them for me). ---
**Author:** ![Doubting\_Robert](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e495f1/32.png) [@Doubting\_Robert](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doubting_Robert)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2002, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/superhero-and-villain-beginnings/108269/23 "2002-05-10T17:45:25Z")
More heroes creating by villains - In 1993, all of the mainstream DC Comics annuals were part of a storyline called “Bloodlines.” In these comics, a group of spinal-fluid-sucking, shape-shifting aliens arrive on Earth. Most of their victims die, but persons with the meta-gene are transformed into super-powered characters of many different sorts. Some of them become heroes, some become villains, and some are hard to classify. Most of these characters disappeared shortly thereafter, but a few were more successful. In particular, Hitman was a very successful character. He was a hired killer, but he only killed people who were (in his eyes) villains. Loose Cannon was a somewhat more heroic character, but he was not as successful commercially. Gunfire and Anima each had a short-lived on-going series. A few of the others appear from time to time. ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2002, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/superhero-and-villain-beginnings/108269/24 "2002-05-10T17:54:24Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Doubting Robert \* > \*\*Excuse me? Okay, I’ve never read the original Plastic Man stories, so all I have to go by is the version DC Comics is using now that they have the rights to the character. In their version, Eel O’Brian _is_ Plastic Man (or vice-versa). \*\* It was a joke, son. Eel O’Brien was Plastic Man, so the criminal created the hero. And yes, in one particular adventure, Plastic Man helped Woozy Winks to capture Eel O’Brien (by changing into Eel where Woozy could capture him). Woozy got the reward, and Eel turned into Plastic Man and escaped. ---
**Author:** ![FlyingDragonFan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/c89c15/32.png) [@FlyingDragonFan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FlyingDragonFan)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2002, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/superhero-and-villain-beginnings/108269/25 "2002-05-10T21:12:07Z")
In _Ultimate Spider-Man_ (the revamping of Marvel characters, completely separate from the regular continuity) the spider that bit Peter Parker and gave him his powers was a mutated spider created by the company owned by Norman Osborne. Seeing the effect it had on Parker, Osborne roughly recreates the process, using a ramped-up version of his own blood, thus turning himself into the Goblin. So the villian, before he was a villian, creates the hero, therefore giving himself the motivation to turn himself into the villian. ---
**Author:** ![Minor\_Irritant](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e495f1/32.png) [@Minor\_Irritant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Minor_Irritant)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2002, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/superhero-and-villain-beginnings/108269/26 "2002-05-10T21:21:12Z")
Scientist Ted Sallis was working on a new Super-Soldier Formula when his girlfriend/wife (can’t remember) betrayed him to the evil secret society, AIM (no connection to the toothpaste makers…I think). Pursued by agents of AIm, he ran into a nearby swamp, injected himself with the formula, and became the shambling muck-monster known as…the Man-Thing! And if you thing the name “Man-Thing”'s funny, his first series was called “Giant-Size Man-Thing”. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2002, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/superhero-and-villain-beginnings/108269/27 "2002-05-10T21:58:43Z")
The spy who detonated the gamma bomb early to create the Hulk also experimented on himself with gamma rays and became the Abomination. Or at least it used to be so. The way Marvel retcons I could be wrong by at least four iterations by now. jayjay ---
**Author:** ![Doubting\_Robert](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e495f1/32.png) [@Doubting\_Robert](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doubting_Robert)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2002, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/superhero-and-villain-beginnings/108269/28 "2002-05-10T22:26:03Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by RealityChuck \* > \*\* > > It was a joke, son. Eel O’Brien was Plastic Man, so the criminal created the hero. > \*\* Well, well. I’ve been whooshed. Probably not for the first time. But it sure has been a long time since anyone called me “son.” ---
**Author:** ![Starbury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f04885/32.png) [@Starbury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starbury)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2002, 11:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/superhero-and-villain-beginnings/108269/29 "2002-05-10T23:12:06Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by zev\_steinhardt \* > \*\*Yes, Galactus created the Silver Surfer to be his first herald. > > OTOH, I don’t think Galactus can truly be said to be a villian. In the Secret Wars mini-series, Reed Richards noted that Galactus didn’t truly belong with the “villians” in the series and wasn’t truly evil. He described Galactus as a “force of nature.” > > Zev Steinhardt \*\* In the more recent Earth X/Universe X series, Galactus is shown as actually being good (or at least benevolent). After he survived the destruction of his universe by the Celestials, he began destroying planets in the Marvel Universe that had been infected by the Celestials (they were using planets as a way to reproduce – the super-people that lived on the planets were just supposed to be a defense mechanism). ---
**Author:** ![gonzoron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a6a055/32.png) [@gonzoron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzoron)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2002, 11:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/superhero-and-villain-beginnings/108269/30 "2002-05-10T23:12:10Z")
Saltire’s mention of a demon reminded me of an obvious one: Spawn was created by the demon Malebolgia(sp?) ---
**Author:** ![DocCathode](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doccathode/32/18773_2.png) [@DocCathode](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DocCathode)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2002, 11:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/superhero-and-villain-beginnings/108269/31 "2002-05-10T23:42:54Z")
Wonderman was given his powers by IIRC Baron Zemo in exchange for helping to kill the Avengers. Wonderman had a change of heart and became a hero. Strikeforce Morituri-The process that gives humans superpowers was developed as a weapon to use against invading aliens. Saint Sinner-Boy gets possessed by demon and does bad things. After much fighting, boy gains control and attempts to drown himself in river. He is saved by mysterious woman. Demon takes back control and makes the boy kill the woman. The woman is actually an angel and killing her physical body allows her to enter the boy’s soul. Boy is now possessed by an angel and a demon, giving him weird powers. Mr Hero The Pneumatic Man-The evil Technophage was attempting to build another evil robot. Something went wrong and the resulting robot was a force for good. SpiderMan 2099- Scientist Miguel Oharat hreatens to quit evil megacorp. His boss slips him rapture, a designer drug that creates lifetime addicts by altering the user’s DNA. Miguel attempts to use his DNA enhancement thingy to cure himself. Jealous coworker interferes with process hoping to kill him. As a result Miguel gains spider powers. Morbius-Back in the 70’s Morbius attempted to cure himself of a rare disease. The cure worked but transformed him into a lving vampire. In the 90’s, a jealous colleague attempts to kill Morbius with a serum that will seem like an honest attempt to cure him. However, a demon has previously tainted the serum with his own poisonous blood. The resulting product restores Morbius’ sanity and vows to prey on those who deserve to die. Ironman-Tony Stark is caught in a booby trap. His captors tell him that he has shrapnel near his heart and will die unless it is removed. They promise to operate if Stark builds them weapons. Instead he builds an armored suit that will keep him alive and give him the power to fight evil. Original GhostRider-Johnny Blaze makes a deal with a devil. As payment, the devil places a demon in Blaze’s soul. Again, this produces a superhero. Gammora- The evil Thanos takes the last survivor of a planet destroyed by the evil Magus and raises her. Gammora helps defeat the Magus and goes on to be a hero. Huntar of the Micronauts-Baron Karza controls the Body Banks. These give him the power to make people immortal or turn them into hideous freaks. He experiments on Huntar, changing him from a normal man into a living weapon(which looks like a guy covered in orange playdough). Huntar uses his powers to aid the rebellion. Scarlet Witch and Quicksilver-Magneto trained his children to use their mutant powers to fight the human race. They eventually defect to the Avengers. Rogue-Mystique trained Rogue to be a supervillain. She also tricked/manipulated Rogue into permanently stealing the powers of Ms Marvel. Rogue eventually joins the X Men. Mystique is eventually revealed to be Rogue’s biological mother. Nightcrawler-A few years ago, he learned that Mystique was his mother as well. She had no part in raising or training him. But, she did give birth to him. This revelation put a whole new spin on the few kisses Rogue and Nightcrawler shared. Adam Warlock- The Hive is a group of evil scientists bent on world conquest. They attempt to create a super soldier(not with a serum but from scratch). They create Adam Warlock who destroys their base and takes up heroing. Volcana-Doctor Doom gave this woman super human powers. She never really wanted to be a villain. She fell in love with Molecule Man and convinced him to give up villainy as well. For a while, they enjoyed wedded bliss in NYC. ---
**Author:** ![Otto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Otto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Otto)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2002, 6:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/superhero-and-villain-beginnings/108269/32 "2002-05-11T06:23:50Z")
Owen Reece (The Molecule Man) and Volcana lived in Denver, and never married. MM himself (who could in his later appearances be classified as a hero) was IIRC imbued with his powers as the result of an accident caused by (say it with me) evil scientists. The same scientists who created Adam Warlock also created Her, his female equivalent. The Defender Gargoyle was created when a man was fused with a demon by IIRC “Satan.” The Cat was the product of secret experiments that were funded by an evil industrialist. Donning one of her costumes somehow caused Patsy Walker to gain similar cat-like powers and become Hellcat. Doctor Strange began studying the mystic arts to counteract the evil Baron Mordo. Hawkeye was a protoge of the Swordsman (who later became a hero himself). Blade became a vampire slayer to avenge his mother, killed by vampires. ---
**Author:** ![DocCathode](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doccathode/32/18773_2.png) [@DocCathode](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DocCathode)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2002, 2:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/superhero-and-villain-beginnings/108269/33 "2002-05-12T02:32:35Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Otto \* > \*\*Owen Reece (The Molecule Man) and Volcana lived in Denver, and never married. \*\* D’OH! I misremembered scenes from Secret Wars II. ---
**Author:** ![DrFidelius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drfidelius/32/3447_2.png) [@DrFidelius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrFidelius)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2002, 2:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/superhero-and-villain-beginnings/108269/34 "2002-05-12T02:57:13Z")
**Fenris** wrote, way back there: > [@](#): > > The best example of this (and the single dumbest origin (including the Whizzer’s) ever) is the Golden Age Black Terror’s. Wait a second. Wasn’t he the one with the mongoose blood transfusion? ---
**Author:** ![Gadarene](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Gadarene](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gadarene)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2002, 3:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/superhero-and-villain-beginnings/108269/35 "2002-05-12T03:50:51Z")
> [@](#): > > In 1993, all of the mainstream DC Comics annuals were part of a storyline called “Bloodlines.” In these comics, a group of spinal-fluid-sucking, shape-shifting aliens arrive on Earth. Most of their victims die, but persons with the meta-gene are transformed into super-powered characters of many different sorts. Some of them become heroes, some become villains, and some are hard to classify. Most of these characters disappeared shortly thereafter, but a few were more successful. Sounds remarkably like the wonderful _Wild Cards_ novels. When’s the next one o’ them due out, anyway? ---
**Author:** ![cmkeller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmkeller/32/118_2.png) [@cmkeller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmkeller)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2002, 5:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/superhero-and-villain-beginnings/108269/36 "2002-05-12T05:31:52Z")
Oh, I also forgot - Starman Will Payton was empowered when a satellite belonging to the Hutchings Institute hit him with a power beam. The Hutchings Institute (and its super-team, the Power Elite) was his major enemy during the first two years of his book. Chaim Mattis Keller ---
**Author:** ![5-HT](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/5/f19dbf/32.png) [@5-HT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/5-HT)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2002, 5:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/superhero-and-villain-beginnings/108269/37 "2002-05-12T05:46:08Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Otto \* > \*\*Blade became a vampire slayer to avenge his mother, killed by vampires. \*\* Specifically, Blade was created when Frost bit his pregnant mother. ---
**Author:** ![Fenris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fenris/32/498_2.png) [@Fenris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fenris)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2002, 5:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/superhero-and-villain-beginnings/108269/38 "2002-05-12T05:47:46Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by DrFidelius \* > \*\ ***Fenris** wrote, way back there: > Wait a second. Wasn’t he the one with the mongoose blood transfusion? \*\* No, that was The Whizzer. Dumb, but not insane. Given the wacky logic of super-hero comics, Mongoose blood just barely makes sense, especially since (IIRC) it was an accident/emergency: that always helps. No the Black Terror _intentionally_ mixed together asprin/laxatives/stimulants/cough syrup/_everything_ in a pharmacy in hopes of getting super-powers. I have no _idea_ who owns the rights to him nowdays, but I’d love to do a Vertigo version: Fear and Loathing in Spandex …then the drugs kicked in and I was fighting Nazi Super-Lizards on one of Saturn’s rings… Fenris ---
**Author:** ![Fenris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fenris/32/498_2.png) [@Fenris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fenris)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2002, 5:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/superhero-and-villain-beginnings/108269/39 "2002-05-12T05:51:04Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by cmkeller \* > \*\*Oh, I also forgot - Starman Will Payton was empowered when a satellite belonging to the Hutchings Institute hit him with a power beam. The Hutchings Institute (and its super-team, the Power Elite) was his major enemy during the first two years of his book. \*\* Although, speaking of retcons (in the other comics thread), this has been retconned and the beam was the Steve Ditko Starman’s soul. The satellite had nothing to do with it, other than being in the right place for everyone to jump to conclusions about. Fenris ---
**Author:** ![rjung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/45deac/32.png) [@rjung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjung)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2002, 7:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/superhero-and-villain-beginnings/108269/40 "2002-05-12T07:27:16Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by jayjay \* > The spy who detonated the gamma bomb early to create the Hulk also experimented on himself with gamma rays and became the Abomination. I’m pretty sure that’s not the case – IIRC, the Abomination (Emil Bronski) was a pI[second\* Soviet spy who tried to duplicate Banner’s accident with the Hulk, but was not the same “Igor” who caused the original accident to begin with. I _definitely_ remember an X-th anniversary issue of _The Incredible Hulk,_ written by Peter David, where the human-intellect Hulk captures Igor and brings him back to the ruins of the gamma bomb experiment. The Hulk ends up battling a team of super-Soviets out to rescue Igor, who… well, that’s probably spoiler material. 😉 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/superhero-and-villain-beginnings/108269.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/superhero-and-villain-beginnings/108269.md?page=3)