# Superhero teams - Do we really need all these people to fight crime? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [November 22, 2016, 11:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/superhero-teams-do-we-really-need-all-these-people-to-fight-crime/772733 "2016-11-22T11:24:27Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 17\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Superdude](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/superdude/32/13450_2.png) [@Superdude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Superdude)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2016, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/superhero-teams-do-we-really-need-all-these-people-to-fight-crime/772733/21 "2016-11-22T20:03:04Z")
Not as bad as Dazzler’s ability to convert sound to light, perhaps, but Jubilee’s powers ARE pretty lame. ---
**Author:** ![Reluctant\_A](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/839c29/32.png) [@Reluctant\_A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Reluctant_A)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2016, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/superhero-teams-do-we-really-need-all-these-people-to-fight-crime/772733/22 "2016-11-22T21:29:50Z")
Since when is the ability to shoot lasers from your hands a lame power? Emma Frost taught us, just like she did with Iceman, that the problem isn’t with the powers, it’s with the person utilizing the powers. ---
**Author:** ![Ethilrist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ethilrist/32/4604_2.png) [@Ethilrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ethilrist)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2016, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/superhero-teams-do-we-really-need-all-these-people-to-fight-crime/772733/23 "2016-11-22T21:57:29Z")
> [@Dale\_Sams](#): > > Generally super-heroes don’t fight crime. Crime comes to them. > > For a long while the Avengers should have been called “The Reactors” In the first Fantastic Four movie, they got huge kudos for winning fights or stopping tragedies that they caused. If they had all just stayed in the lab and minded their own business, everything would have been fine. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2016, 12:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/superhero-teams-do-we-really-need-all-these-people-to-fight-crime/772733/24 "2016-11-23T00:56:44Z")
> [@DarkFire](#): > > If you look at the Watchmen, and the background in the story, you’ll notice that it is actually criticism on the whole superhero thing. It’s just people who decided to wear costumes and this results in crime going up. I don’t recall that last bit, there. (I mean, I guess none of the characters can _mention_ it, since it’s not like they can pop over to our world and compare crime rates – but is there any indication that there are more muggings, or burglaries, or whatever, in the Watchmen-verse NYC circa 1985 or 1975 or 1965 or whatever than in real-life NYC at the same time?) (Granted, the _international_ situation is messed up due to Doc winning the Vietnam War for the gent in the White House – but that’s another question.) ---
**Author:** ![furryman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/furryman/32/99_2.png) [@furryman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/furryman)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2016, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/superhero-teams-do-we-really-need-all-these-people-to-fight-crime/772733/25 "2016-11-23T21:08:00Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > I don’t recall that last bit, there. > > (I mean, I guess none of the characters can _mention_ it, since it’s not like they can pop over to our world and compare crime rates – but is there any indication that there are more muggings, or burglaries, or whatever, in the Watchmen-verse NYC circa 1985 or 1975 or 1965 or whatever than in real-life NYC at the same time?) > > (Granted, the _international_ situation is messed up due to Doc winning the Vietnam War for the gent in the White House – but that’s another question.) In one of the Watchmen shorts they interview washed up ex nemesis of the 60’s Watchmen. He claims that he would have never become a villain if the Watchmen hadn’t existed. Of course watching the video you quickly realize this is just a lame excuse for him being a sociopath. ---
**Author:** ![E-DUB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/e-dub/32/403_2.png) [@E-DUB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-DUB)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2016, 11:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/superhero-teams-do-we-really-need-all-these-people-to-fight-crime/772733/26 "2016-11-23T23:02:52Z")
MsSmith587 wrote: “The Avengers are the only team AFAIK to acknowledge that one of their members is actually kind of silly (Hawkeye)” Actually, the Legion of Superheroes acknowledged the silliness of Bouncing Boy on more than one occasion. And if I recall correctly, Duo Damsel, Dream Girl, and Matter-Eater Lad all occasionally wondered if they belonged on the team. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2016, 11:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/superhero-teams-do-we-really-need-all-these-people-to-fight-crime/772733/27 "2016-11-23T23:25:36Z")
On the other hand, when Dream Girl announced that she wanted to stand for election to serve as team leader of the Legion, they – realized she wouldn’t have _bothered,_ if she wasn’t going to win that election; and then she, uh, did. ---
**Author:** ![Ranchoth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ranchoth/32/1066_2.png) [@Ranchoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ranchoth)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2016, 12:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/superhero-teams-do-we-really-need-all-these-people-to-fight-crime/772733/28 "2016-11-24T00:51:18Z")
I suppose the crime element is sort of the paradox of writing superhero stories—if you make the superhero noticeably effective at thwarting or preventing crime, in comparison to the real world, you have much less to write _about_. Hence the value of supervillains (even short-lived ones), or the occasional grim “what if” glimpse of a world without the superhero—where the superhero’s function is justified as keeping crime from getting _much worse_. Mostly a problem in ongoing books/series’ where making a major change to the setting would disrupt the ability to write more of the same in the future; self-contained works like _Watchmen_ have more leeway, and IIRC there’s also a fan theory of the “in-universe” reason why Silver Age comics tend to be more light-hearted and goofy—the superheroes there were so _effective_ at combating serious “grim and gritty” crime that things are [actually pretty peaceful and under control](http://www.timemachinego.com/linkmachinego/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2010/02/batman-digs-this-day-large.jpg). ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2016, 1:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/superhero-teams-do-we-really-need-all-these-people-to-fight-crime/772733/29 "2016-11-24T01:19:00Z")
I think it’s simplest if, in-universe, there’s some single catalyzing event that causes superpowered individuals to start cropping up, and those individuals decide on their own what side to take. Superheroes without supervillains or supervillains without superheroes are neither one of them stable. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2016, 3:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/superhero-teams-do-we-really-need-all-these-people-to-fight-crime/772733/30 "2016-11-24T03:35:21Z")
> [@E-DUB](#): > > MsSmith587 wrote: “The Avengers are the only team AFAIK to acknowledge that one of their members is actually kind of silly (Hawkeye)” > > Actually, the Legion of Superheroes acknowledged the silliness of Bouncing Boy on more than one occasion. And if I recall correctly, Duo Damsel, Dream Girl, and Matter-Eater Lad all occasionally wondered if they belonged on the team. And X-Men and co to have “do I belong here?” issues include Cannonball, Cyclops, Jean Grey, Phoenix, Iceman, Wolverine, the other Wolverine, both Proudstar brothers, Storm… wait, I’ll probably finish faster if I list the ones who never had such an issue. And then there’s the ones who have a bit of a “where the heck else am I supposed to go?” factor, such as Nightcrawler: he’s been in multiple X-teams but you don’t see him applying for a job in Cirque du Soleil even though he’d be perfectly qualified for it, or trying to enter seminary. ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2016, 2:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/superhero-teams-do-we-really-need-all-these-people-to-fight-crime/772733/31 "2016-11-24T14:22:12Z")
How does Superman deal with the fact that while he can solve pretty many any problem, he can’t solve all of them because he can’t be in more than one place at a time? Like does he look like a massive asshole every time he decides he doesn’t want to go save people in a flood halfway around the world? ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2016, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/superhero-teams-do-we-really-need-all-these-people-to-fight-crime/772733/32 "2016-11-24T18:32:42Z")
> [@Half\_Man\_Half\_Wit](#): > > The problem is that if you assume that in the Watchmen-universe, anybody other than Dr. Manhattan has superpowers, it really undercuts the narrative—basically, everybody’s just playing at being something greater than normal humans, while Dr. Manhattan actually is as a contrast; nobody’s got superpowers except for him, and he gets all of them. So when they do something that seems implausible for a human being in our universe, then just remember that their universe isn’t ours (after all, Nixon getting five terms in office is also implausible in our universe). From a story point of view, everybody besides Dr. Manhattan is clearly meant to be non-super. The thing to remember about superhero comics is that their roots are in pulp novels. And one of the characteristics of pulp novels was a general disinterest in realistically depicting the limits of the human body. In the real world, a normal human gets shot in the shoulder, they’re not using that arm for months, and may never regain full use of it. Sam Spade gets shot in the shoulder, he shrugs it off as a “flesh wound” and is punching out mooks on the next page. And there’s a throughline from that to most modern action cinema. John McClane can run barefoot across broken glass, and doesn’t spend the rest of the film in a wheelchair. That’s the baseline for humanity in most superhero universes, and explains why “peak human” Steve Rogers is pretty clearly _super_human by our standards - “basic” humans in the comics universe are significantly stronger, faster, and tougher than humans in the real world.. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2016, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/superhero-teams-do-we-really-need-all-these-people-to-fight-crime/772733/33 "2016-11-24T18:36:03Z")
> [@Nava](#): > > And X-Men and co to have “do I belong here?” issues include Cannonball, Cyclops, Jean Grey, Phoenix, Iceman, Wolverine, the other Wolverine, both Proudstar brothers, Storm… wait, I’ll probably finish faster if I list the ones who never had such an issue. And then there’s the ones who have a bit of a “where the heck else am I supposed to go?” factor, such as Nightcrawler: he’s been in multiple X-teams but you don’t see him applying for a job in Cirque du Soleil even though he’d be perfectly qualified for it, or trying to enter seminary. You do, in fact, see Nightcrawler doing both of those things. His background had him [working as a circus performer](http://therichest.imgix.net/2016/09/nc1.jpg?auto=format&q=40&lossless=1&w=568&h=312&fit=crop), and at one point in (I think) the '90s, he quit the X-Men to [join a seminary and eventually become a Catholic priest.](http://cbr1.imgix.net/wp-content/uploads/goodcomics/2013/02/kurtpriest1.jpg?auto=format&lossless=1&q=40&w=620&h=957&fit=crop) ---
**Author:** ![Randolph](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Randolph](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Randolph)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2016, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/superhero-teams-do-we-really-need-all-these-people-to-fight-crime/772733/34 "2016-11-24T22:26:52Z")
> [@msmith537](#): > > How does Superman deal with the fact that while he can solve pretty many any problem, he can’t solve all of them because he can’t be in more than one place at a time? > > Like does he look like a massive asshole every time he decides he doesn’t want to go save people in a flood halfway around the world? He _can_ be in multiple places at once, though. He can time travel, as he did in the 1978 Superman movie. One of him was stopping the missile, one was saving Lois. He just doesn’t do it a lot because most people really don’t matter to him. He’s losing touch. God help us all. ---
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2016, 11:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/superhero-teams-do-we-really-need-all-these-people-to-fight-crime/772733/35 "2016-11-24T23:56:21Z")
nm ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2016, 8:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/superhero-teams-do-we-really-need-all-these-people-to-fight-crime/772733/36 "2016-11-25T08:58:15Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > You do, in fact, see Nightcrawler doing both of those things. His background had him [working as a circus performer](http://therichest.imgix.net/2016/09/nc1.jpg?auto=format&q=40&lossless=1&w=568&h=312&fit=crop), and at one point in (I think) the '90s, he quit the X-Men to [join a seminary and eventually become a Catholic priest.](http://cbr1.imgix.net/wp-content/uploads/goodcomics/2013/02/kurtpriest1.jpg?auto=format&lossless=1&q=40&w=620&h=957&fit=crop) His background, which is why I mentioned his being perfectly qualified for a job in Cirque du Soleil (or equivalent), but once he joined the school that was it. And his priesthood apparently was never real; never mind that given the time scales they work with, he wouldn’t have had time to get his degree between leaving and coming back - one effect of time dilation and compression in comic books (and it way too much media) is that on one hand it’s possible to get through four years’ minimum schooling in three months and to get a higher degree or order without lower ones, and on the other you can have someone stay in school for twenty years without anybody batting an eye. ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2016, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/superhero-teams-do-we-really-need-all-these-people-to-fight-crime/772733/37 "2016-11-30T18:38:22Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > … “basic” humans in the comics universe are significantly stronger, faster, and tougher than humans in the real world… Well, yeah. Every single one can survive getting thrown through a wall or down a staircase. If you just want to disorient for a few minutes instead of kill someone, you can gently smash them in the head with a rifle butt. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/superhero-teams-do-we-really-need-all-these-people-to-fight-crime/772733.md?page=1)