# Superheroes with two origins **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Tags:** comic-books-manga\ **Created:** [July 24, 2022, 10:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/superheroes-with-two-origins/968491 "2022-07-24T22:03:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2022, 11:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/superheroes-with-two-origins/968491/61 "2022-07-25T23:45:35Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Personally, I’ve never been fond of “Peter Parker invented web-fluid from scratch”: Sure, he’s smart, but he’s high-school-honor-student smart, not metatechnologist-smart. Yeah, he is no super genius. Really smart, sure. ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2022, 11:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/superheroes-with-two-origins/968491/62 "2022-07-25T23:57:46Z")
> [@Thing.Fish](#): > > a kid freaks out when he realizes that Spider-Man shoots webs from his wrists, rather than from his butt like actual spiders. “Dude! No parent is going to buy their kid a T-shirt of a hero who shoots stuff out of his butt!” “But it’s SCIENTIFICALLY INACCURATE!!” Are “feet” close enough? [https://www.nature.com/articles/443407a](https://www.nature.com/articles/443407a) ---
**Author:** ![Andy\_L](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c67d28/32.png) [@Andy\_L](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andy_L)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2022, 12:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/superheroes-with-two-origins/968491/63 "2022-07-26T00:28:20Z")
I like that idea. ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2022, 2:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/superheroes-with-two-origins/968491/64 "2022-07-26T02:22:34Z")
> [@Thing.Fish](#): > > I don’t think Peter Parker was presented as having a super intellect on the level of Mr. Fantastic, he was just a bright high school kid. Well depends on what version of Peter Parker. In the comics he eventually got a Masters in Biophysics and at least worked on a PhD in Biochemistry - he was quite realistically in High School for only the first couple of years. Then he was quite realistically first a part-time undergraduate student, then a part-time grad student at ‘Empire State’ for decades, starting and quitting multiple times while working as a photojournalist on the side 😃. As with all comics-related stuff it varied for the story, but he was generally portrayed as being natively brilliant. Given the (rare) opportunity he impressed geniuses like Reed Richards with his quick intellect once he was engaged and not just firing off one-liners while punching someone. He was just too wrapped up in super-heroing and being a working stiff to settle down and properly finish his schooling. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2022, 4:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/superheroes-with-two-origins/968491/65 "2022-07-26T04:56:44Z")
> [@Thing.Fish](#): > > I don’t think Peter Parker was presented as having a super intellect on the level of Mr. Fantastic, he was just a bright high school kid. Of course, he did somehow manage to invent those web shooters in the origin story, but after that he didn’t keep inventing stuff. No, he’s a genuine super genius, probably around Tony Stark’s level. He’s invented a ton of stuff over the years, and for a while was the CEO and head scientist of his own start up. He pretty regularly whips up new inventions to counter a particular villain’s super power, and has designed at least a dozen variations of his spider suit with different types of tech upgrades. He’s very much a science hero, but his chaotic personal life and “Parker luck,” causes him to constantly self-sabotage and distract him from his studies. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2022, 5:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/superheroes-with-two-origins/968491/66 "2022-07-26T05:06:50Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Peter Parker does secrete some sort of web substance from his body, This also explains how his webs haven’t been reproduced by anyone. He leaves webbing all over NYC to be analyzed. The commercial applications for this stuff are astounding if it could be produced without something special only Peter Parker has. I do think Peter Parker is on the same intelligence level as Tony Stark and Batman, just without the resources. Not clear to me where Bruce Banner stands but Reed Richards would seem to be at the top of the list. Superman is supposed to be pretty smart also, inventing stuff at the Fortress of Solitude. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2022, 11:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/superheroes-with-two-origins/968491/67 "2022-07-26T11:37:41Z")
The same as (some versions of) Batman, sure, I can buy that. Batman (in most versions) never comes up with anything fundamentally new; he just applies basically current-level tech (which is made easier both by his extreme personal training that enables him to make use of things like oddly-shaped shuriken, and by his extreme wealth to buy lots of fancy stuff). But “same intelligence level as Tony Stark” is a bona fides superpower, and should have a lot more implications. Stark has invented multiple major advances in many fields, including the arc reactor, repulsors, advanced AI, various other sorts of energy weapons, superstrong alloys, etc. Every time we see him, he’s got some sort of new upgrade. Being rich helped with all of that, of course, but it wasn’t necessary: Remember, he built his first suit while a POW in a cave. Parker, meanwhile, has one major boundaries-pushing invention, right at the start of his career, and then never again. And that one invention just happened to be spider-related? It strains credulity. ---
**Author:** ![Peter\_Morris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peter_morris/32/359_2.png) [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2022, 12:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/superheroes-with-two-origins/968491/68 "2022-07-26T12:05:29Z")
Actually, he came up with _two_ inventions. 1. the chemical formula for the web fluid. 2. the shooters that spin the fluid into various shapes. ---
**Author:** ![eburacum45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eburacum45/32/8690_2.png) [@eburacum45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eburacum45)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2022, 1:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/superheroes-with-two-origins/968491/69 "2022-07-26T13:52:48Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Yeah, But gaining the powers of Thor? Sure. It is is a proper name, and not a superhero moniker, it belongs to that person, altho of course others can take up the mantle using the same superhero moniker. This is an idea going back to 1949, when the Australian hero Thunderbolt Jaxon found the belt of Thor, and gained his powers. [http://www.internationalhero.co.uk/j/jaxon.htm](http://www.internationalhero.co.uk/j/jaxon.htm) I note that Jaxon could only use his powers in the cause of justice, which caused some (fatal) embarrassment when he was tricked into using them in the service of evil in Grant Morrison’s Zenith (1988). I also note that the Marvel Thor also uses a magic belt sometimes, which doubles his already considerable strength. ---
**Author:** ![Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/elmer_j.fudd/32/1211_2.png) [@Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elmer_J.Fudd)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2022, 2:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/superheroes-with-two-origins/968491/70 "2022-07-26T14:14:26Z")
Ya know, spiders don’t really swing as much as hang. Parker has _three_ superpowers. Spider powers. Inventor powers. Tarzan powers. ---
**Author:** ![OldManLogan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/oldmanlogan/32/5237_2.png) [@OldManLogan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OldManLogan)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2022, 2:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/superheroes-with-two-origins/968491/71 "2022-07-26T14:18:50Z")
Jubilee wasn’t retconned but still has three origins. 1. Mutant - able to detonate matter on a subatomic level which is usually seen as plasmoid “fireworks” but could be much bigger 2. Wondra - technology hero. Jubilee was depowered thanks to M-Day but still wanted to fight. She joined the New Warriors as Wondra with a suit built by Night Thrasher 3. Vampire/Single Mother - Xarus, son of Dracula, turned her into a vampire with all the requisite powers. Jubilee also adopted Shogo and spent most of her appearances as a mom or teacher instead of a super-hero. She’s no longer a vampire and back to being a mutant again because comics. ---
**Author:** ![P-man](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/p-man/32/3606_2.png) [@P-man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/P-man)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2022, 3:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/superheroes-with-two-origins/968491/72 "2022-07-26T15:17:35Z")
> [@Thing.Fish](#): > > Heh. The new Cat Kid Comic Club book has a scene where a kid freaks out when he realizes that Spider-Man shoots webs from his wrists, rather than from his butt like actual spiders. “Dude! No parent is going to buy their kid a T-shirt of a hero who shoots stuff out of his butt!” “But it’s SCIENTIFICALLY INACCURATE!!” Dav Pilkey is a genius. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2022, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/superheroes-with-two-origins/968491/73 "2022-07-26T15:33:02Z")
He did invent electronic spider trackers also. He also used his scientific knowledge in a variety of storylines, Dr. Connor was mentioned above as an example. I’m fine with the Batman comparison generally, although I suspect Parker’s intelligence has received some enhancement just as his physical abilities did after the radioactive spider bite. They exhibit their intelligence in different ways but it’s credible to think they are both at some lower level than the top scientific super heroes and villains, but an intelligence level that is at least reaches the super level. Tony Stark is a little tougher to determine what level he’s on, I assume he has a lot of people working on the super technology he develops which Tony Stark on his own may not have achieved. Superman is also tough to figure, he’s had more eras of character development and biographical venues than other super heroes and he’s demonstrated various level of apparent intelligence across these changing lifescapes. Not sure where to place some of the super villains on this scale. Dr. Doom is supposed to rival Reed Richards and others have created their own superpowers and technology, but also often driven by insanity that does them in at the end. ---
**Author:** ![Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/elmer_j.fudd/32/1211_2.png) [@Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elmer_J.Fudd)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2022, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/superheroes-with-two-origins/968491/74 "2022-07-26T16:25:22Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > He did invent electronic spider trackers also. That’s really just an extension of his spider sense. He merely had to identify the frequency it operates on and create transistorized transmitters. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2022, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/superheroes-with-two-origins/968491/75 "2022-07-26T16:28:13Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > But “same intelligence level as Tony Stark” is a bona fides superpower, and should have a lot more implications. In-comic, on-panel, he’s as smart as Reed Richards was when he was the same age, according to Reed himself: [![](https://external-preview.redd.it/uzhfZPQd2m6s5FCnXXjLEvLPczq9vC2M4AD5jMW-R_M.jpg?width=640&crop=smart&auto=webp&s=70886134eed3d81cddf31c7fd5acdc4d197a253d) ](https://external-preview.redd.it/uzhfZPQd2m6s5FCnXXjLEvLPczq9vC2M4AD5jMW-R_M.jpg?width=640&crop=smart&auto=webp&s=70886134eed3d81cddf31c7fd5acdc4d197a253d) ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2022, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/superheroes-with-two-origins/968491/76 "2022-07-26T16:51:00Z")
> [@DocCathode](#): > > In the original (and IMHO better origin) (sadly I cannot remember which writer this was) Chris Claremont ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2022, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/superheroes-with-two-origins/968491/77 "2022-07-26T17:04:13Z")
Ok, but it was still an invention. I have my own theory on what spider sense is, still should work with the trackers though. I believe this superpower is mislabeled as an enhanced spider ability when it’s actually an ability that results from the radioactivity of the spider than bit him and an ability to sense anger from his enemies. Anger and radioactivity have a well known relationship as seen in the Hulk and other super heroes and villains. Someone could probably work out a better explanation of how it works but I’m assuming there is an ‘anger field’ that creates an interference pattern with Spidey’s natural radioactivity that he senses. ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2022, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/superheroes-with-two-origins/968491/78 "2022-07-26T17:06:12Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > This also explains how his webs haven’t been reproduced by anyone. He leaves webbing all over NYC to be analyzed. The commercial applications for this stuff are astounding if it could be produced without something special only Peter Parker has. The comics once tried to handwave that away by having Peter try to interest a chemical company in the formula (as usual, he needed money). The company rep heard about the stuff dissolving in an hour or so and told him to get lost and take his “useless” invention with him. Apparently neither of them could think of a practical application such as… hmmm… lemme think… temporarily restraining criminals until the police show up. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2022, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/superheroes-with-two-origins/968491/79 "2022-07-26T17:43:06Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > Ok, but it was still an invention. It’s actually quite a bit more than that. Making a radio transmitter small enough to glue to a magnet and hide on a car was real world tech when Spider-Man was first create in the '60s. But building a device that he can track _using his precognition_ is some hard-core super science shit. > [@TriPolar](#): > > I believe this superpower is mislabeled as an enhanced spider ability when it’s actually an ability that results from the radioactivity of the spider than bit him and an ability to sense anger from his enemies. Anger and radioactivity have a well known relationship as seen in the Hulk and other super heroes and villains. Someone could probably work out a better explanation of how it works but I’m assuming there is an ‘anger field’ that creates an interference pattern with Spidey’s natural radioactivity that he senses. It’s an interesting idea, but unfortunately, it doesn’t fit the power as its written, where it regularly goes off in situations where there’s no anger involved, such as a distracted driver about to plow into a pedestrian, or industrial machinery about to experience a mechanical failure. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2022, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/superheroes-with-two-origins/968491/80 "2022-07-26T18:19:08Z")
Well sure, if you believe the comic books accurately depict all these events. Comic books are often padded with little feel good stories unrelated to super villains or personal life issues. They are inconsequential to storylines so unsurprisingly don’t hold tightly to canon to avoid bogging down an otherwise entertaining story with unimportant details. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/superheroes-with-two-origins/968491.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/superheroes-with-two-origins/968491.md?page=5)