# Superman renounces his American citizenship **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [April 28, 2011, 11:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/superman-renounces-his-american-citizenship/580094 "2011-04-28T23:50:32Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2011, 12:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/superman-renounces-his-american-citizenship/580094/41 "2011-04-29T12:58:08Z")
Do US citizenship rules apply to non-human lifeforms? I mean, are, say , monkeys born in the DC Zoo American citizens? I think not. ---
**Author:** ![Drain\_Bead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e47774/32.png) [@Drain\_Bead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drain_Bead)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2011, 12:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/superman-renounces-his-american-citizenship/580094/42 "2011-04-29T12:58:41Z")
So there’s a right-wing guy in my office with this portion of the Superman comic on his door. Is he just not getting it? ---
**Author:** ![VarlosZ](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/d78d45/32.png) [@VarlosZ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VarlosZ)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2011, 1:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/superman-renounces-his-american-citizenship/580094/43 "2011-04-29T13:12:01Z")
This seems like an overdo kind of change. It never really made sense that a fucking _space alien_ would have such a provincial world-view. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2011, 1:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/superman-renounces-his-american-citizenship/580094/44 "2011-04-29T13:23:53Z")
> [@sqweels](#): > > How is this “PC bullshit”? Some people feel that everything they don’t like is part of a vast monolithic conspiracy. PC=liberalism=socialism=the Democrats=communism=Muslims=Nazis=hippies=gays=foreigners=rap music=the Government=Hollywood=Mexicans=feminists. They’re all the same. ---
**Author:** ![shy\_guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a6a055/32.png) [@shy\_guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/shy_guy)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2011, 1:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/superman-renounces-his-american-citizenship/580094/45 "2011-04-29T13:37:52Z")
My favorite part of the criticism is how clear it is that those complaining haven’t read a Superman comic in decades, if ever. Superman has been dealing with real-world political issues (well, usually proxies for them; e.g. “Qurac”) for years and years. ---
**Author:** ![CandidGamera](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/candidgamera/32/2878_2.png) [@CandidGamera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CandidGamera)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2011, 1:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/superman-renounces-his-american-citizenship/580094/46 "2011-04-29T13:44:04Z")
Speaking as someone who actually reads the Superman titles, my reaction was : “Huh. Well, that kinda makes sense. Let’s see where they go with it.” I was completely baffled today to see that a bunch of right-wing nutjobs in the news had apparently decided this was a big deal. ---
**Author:** ![Acid\_Lamp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@Acid\_Lamp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acid_Lamp)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2011, 1:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/superman-renounces-his-american-citizenship/580094/47 "2011-04-29T13:54:32Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > I think this is an artistic mistake. > > The more the writers involve Superman in current politics, the greater the violence to the willing suspension of disbelief necessary to accept the Superman story. As long as he lives in a universe where “truth, justice, and the American way” always win out by the end of the story, I can accept him as the world’s biggest Boy Scout. But this is jarring - why doesn’t Superman fly to Cuba and free all the Gitmo inmates? Why doesn’t he punch Ahmadinejad in the face instead of just protesting? This doesn’t make a lot of sense - how does it help for him to renounce his US citizenship instead of doing something concrete? > > I know, I know - they are just trying to sell comics. > > Regards, > Shodan I kind of get it. Supes generally doesn’t want to wade into every mess and right every wrong if people can get on with it by themselves. He doesn’t want to be god-king of earth, but neither will he stand by when something threatens the planet or wherever he happens to be either. Politics though, is sticky, never ending, and dependent upon the people to enforce. If he’s a citizen of earth, rather than any one country, he can only be seen as acting on his own. ---
**Author:** ![Revenant\_Threshold](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f1d935/32.png) [@Revenant\_Threshold](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revenant_Threshold)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2011, 1:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/superman-renounces-his-american-citizenship/580094/48 "2011-04-29T13:54:34Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > This doesn’t make a lot of sense - how does it help for him to renounce his US citizenship instead of doing something concrete? > > I know, I know - they are just trying to sell comics. The problem specifically was that people were assuming that it was an act of the American government, rather than him acting on behalf of himself. The point of it was to try and make it so that Superman intervening in the middle of a protest isn’t America intervening in the middle of a protest, which does make a level of sense. Wouldn’t actually work, I would think - were I a fictional annoyed Iranian I suspect i’d call it a cheap tactic that doesn’t actually demolish the links between this alien and his nation. Anyway, as to the overall thing, it makes sense to me. Truth and Justice are perfect ideals. The American way is not. Why pick a flawed ideal when you can aspire to and achieve better? I don’t know if this is an American exceptionalism kerfuffle, but it honestly doesn’t matter how good something is when you compare it to perfection; it is infinitely worse. I agree with **Shodan** about introducing current, real-life controversies into such comics, though. ---
**Author:** ![Great\_Antibob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Great\_Antibob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Great_Antibob)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2011, 1:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/superman-renounces-his-american-citizenship/580094/49 "2011-04-29T13:55:48Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > I think this is an artistic mistake. > > The more the writers involve Superman in current politics, the greater the violence to the willing suspension of disbelief necessary to accept the Superman story. …like how he fought the Nazis in WWII? Or against the Ku Klux Klan in the post-war era? If you want to make this argument, you’re 70 years too late. ---
**Author:** ![KneadToKnow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kneadtoknow/32/3999_2.png) [@KneadToKnow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KneadToKnow)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2011, 2:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/superman-renounces-his-american-citizenship/580094/50 "2011-04-29T14:04:09Z")
> [@CalMeacham](#): > > (Superman carries a huge US flag near the end of the first **Superman** movie with Christopher Reeve) Close: it’s near the end of _Superman II_, and it’s because he’s helping to rebuild the White House, which the Phantom Zone villains (with some assistance from the US Military) left in ruins. ---
**Author:** ![Revtim](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/revtim/32/1042_2.png) [@Revtim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revtim)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2011, 2:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/superman-renounces-his-american-citizenship/580094/51 "2011-04-29T14:36:43Z")
> [@Cayuga](#): > > Still trying to figure out how it’s PC bullshit. Anything not rabidly American exceptionalist is PC bullshit (and liberal commie atheist too. And sometimes Kenyan.) ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2011, 2:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/superman-renounces-his-american-citizenship/580094/52 "2011-04-29T14:38:58Z")
> [@Great\_Antibob](#): > > …like how he fought the Nazis in WWII? Or against the Ku Klux Klan in the post-war era? This is exactly what I mean, and the same flaw then as now. The writers in 1941 came up with the lame excuse that the American fighting man didn’t need any help, darn it! And they never mentioned the Klan at all. Because that would have been a crack in the reality they constructed just like mentioning the Iran protest. Superman can’t take on real world problems, because it leads almost inevitably to the question “why isn’t he doing something effective?” So what if he used his X-ray vision accidentally during the eye exam and wound up 4-F - fly over to Germany and melt down the tanks with your heat vision. And thereby save millions of lives. There are problems even Silver Age Superman could have tackled - establishing “Superman is in favor of racial equality during the 1950s” by having Supe battle the KKK would have been an incredibly bold as well as artistically possible approach - providing it happened in Smallville or Metropolis, and not in Mississippi. Because in Smallville “truth, justice and the American Way” are unambiguously valid. Not so in the real world, unless you are going to go all the way and really fight. And Superman is too powerful to have an excuse that he cannot do anything beyond protesting. To be fair, one of the first experiences I had towards an awakening of racial equality and equal rights came about because of comic books. It was Marvel, and the experience was reading about the [Black Panther](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Panther_%28comics%29). Because he was completely cool, and it didn’t make any difference at all that he was black, or that he shared a name with Bobby Seale’s organization - he was cool, and admirable, and an example of what a hero should be like. But you can do that with the Black Panther, because his powers are limited. Nobody expected him to defeat racism single-handed the way the 1950s version of Superman could have done. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Lightnin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lightnin/32/180_2.png) [@Lightnin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lightnin)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2011, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/superman-renounces-his-american-citizenship/580094/53 "2011-04-29T14:58:09Z")
> [@WarmNPrickly](#): > > This is awesome. I may buy this comic just to collect. I love anything that puts the wing nuts panties in a bunch. If you’re going to buy everything that bunches up the wingnuts’ panties, I hope you’ve got a lot of money. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2011, 3:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/superman-renounces-his-american-citizenship/580094/54 "2011-04-29T15:05:58Z")
> [@t-bonham@scc.net](#): > > Note that you can’t just ‘renounce your citizenship’ on your own; that has to be accepted by the government. So the US could just decline to accept it from Superman, and he stays a US citizen. Correct. Besides, there is a proper protocol for doing so (fine tuned after the Lozada and Mari Bras cases from about 10 years ago; [look at the last update in this Straight Dope page](http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/841/how-do-i-go-about-renouncing-my-u-s-citizenship).), including that it be done in writing before a consular official and that the citizen must manifest by both words and deeds his intention to assume allegiance of some other recognized sovereign, not “the World”. But of course, the US citizenship of the extraterrestrial humanoid entity known as _“Superman”_ would have been an oddball exception granted by governmental fiat to begin with anyway, rather than by the regular naturalization process so it could conceivably be _revoked_ for cause.(unlike Clark Kent’s, who as earlier mentioned, is presumed a citizen as a a foundling of unknown parentage) Now, we could say that the point he wanted to make was that he was not to be presumed an agent of the US government or a representative of the American nation, he could always just publicly renounce any such association and declare himself a private citizen. But the way Supes’ mind works, that would still require him to break laws and regulations and disobey lawful orders if he, for instance, intervenes somewhere where the US would rather he didn’t; and he knows that PR-wise, world opinion has a hard time believing an American isn’t responding to what the US government is up to. So rather than be a rebel subject of the US government, the entity “Superman” declares himself individually independent (and of course HE CAN do it; bite it, John Galt) so the US can’t be claimed to exercise extraterritorial jurisdiction upon him. ---
**Author:** ![KneadToKnow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kneadtoknow/32/3999_2.png) [@KneadToKnow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KneadToKnow)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2011, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/superman-renounces-his-american-citizenship/580094/55 "2011-04-29T15:28:47Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Nobody expected him to defeat racism single-handed the way the 1950s version of Superman could have done. I’m curious to know how you think Superman could defeat _racism_, [del]an almost universal[/del] a widespread human failing. This is akin to saying Superman could defeat _fear of heights_ or _poor reading for comprehension_. ---
**Author:** ![Capitaine\_Zombie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e95f7d/32.png) [@Capitaine\_Zombie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Capitaine_Zombie)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2011, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/superman-renounces-his-american-citizenship/580094/56 "2011-04-29T15:29:53Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > This is exactly what I mean, and the same flaw then as now. The writers in 1941 came up with the lame excuse that the American fighting man didn’t need any help, darn it! > > And they never mentioned the Klan at all. Because that would have been a crack in the reality they constructed just like mentioning the Iran protest. > > Superman can’t take on real world problems, because it leads almost inevitably to the question “why isn’t he doing something effective?” So what if he used his X-ray vision accidentally during the eye exam and wound up 4-F - fly over to Germany and melt down the tanks with your heat vision. And thereby save millions of lives. > > There are problems even Silver Age Superman could have tackled - establishing “Superman is in favor of racial equality during the 1950s” by having Supe battle the KKK would have been an incredibly bold as well as artistically possible approach - providing it happened in Smallville or Metropolis, and not in Mississippi. Because in Smallville “truth, justice and the American Way” are unambiguously valid. Not so in the real world, unless you are going to go all the way and really fight. And Superman is too powerful to have an excuse that he cannot do anything beyond protesting. I dont understand your post. Are you aware that Supes _did_ fight the Klan on the radio show? Or, are you arguing that, since the Klan wasnt named as such (but it was quite transparent) he didnt really battle real life political foes? ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Scud](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f08c70/32.png) [@Tom\_Scud](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Scud)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2011, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/superman-renounces-his-american-citizenship/580094/57 "2011-04-29T15:32:36Z")
> [@Great\_Antibob](#): > > Or against the Ku Klux Klan in the post-war era? > [@Shodan](#): > > And they never mentioned the Klan at all. Because that would have been a crack in the reality they constructed just like mentioning the Iran protest. Superman did take on the Klan in the radio show. > **[Metroactive Books | Superman](http://www.metroactive.com/papers/metro/07.02.98/comics-9826.html)** ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2011, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/superman-renounces-his-american-citizenship/580094/58 "2011-04-29T15:34:52Z")
> [@LonesomePolecat](#): > > This week in _Action_ #900, Superman declared himself a citizen of the universe and[renounced his American citizenship.](http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/heat-vision/superman-renounces-us-citizenship-as-183347) > > An American icon succumbs to PC bullshit … Thanx for sharing the latest Faux News manufactured _Outrage Of the Week!_ courtesy of “activist” Angie Meyer. ---
**Author:** ![Jack\_Batty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jack_batty/32/3201_2.png) [@Jack\_Batty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Batty)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2011, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/superman-renounces-his-american-citizenship/580094/59 "2011-04-29T15:39:00Z")
Renounced his American citizenship?!? _TRAITOR!!!_ I say we take this motherfucker out back and shoot him!! ---
**Author:** ![Capitaine\_Zombie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e95f7d/32.png) [@Capitaine\_Zombie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Capitaine_Zombie)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2011, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/superman-renounces-his-american-citizenship/580094/60 "2011-04-29T15:49:22Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Thanx for sharing the latest Faux News manufactured _Outrage Of the Week!_ courtesy of “activist” Angie Meyer. You should have read the articles when Batman took a second generation French Algerian as the Batman of Paris, Nightrunner ( [http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/news/2011/01/batmans\_french\_muslim\_ally\_angers\_us\_bloggers.php](http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/news/2011/01/batmans_french_muslim_ally_angers_us_bloggers.php) ). [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/superman-renounces-his-american-citizenship/580094.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/superman-renounces-his-american-citizenship/580094.md?page=4)