# Superman renounces his American citizenship **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [April 28, 2011, 11:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/superman-renounces-his-american-citizenship/580094 "2011-04-28T23:50:32Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Lochdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/edb3f5/32.png) [@Lochdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lochdale)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2011, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/superman-renounces-his-american-citizenship/580094/61 "2011-04-29T15:56:27Z")
I hope he can pay the significant taxes he now owes the US government. Also doesn’t this go to nature v. Nurture? He was raised an American so he probably shares a lot of similar values. Always, they’re just trying to sell comics of a very boring character. ---
**Author:** ![SecretaryofEvil](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e95f7d/32.png) [@SecretaryofEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SecretaryofEvil)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2011, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/superman-renounces-his-american-citizenship/580094/62 "2011-04-29T16:06:39Z")
> [@Lochdale](#): > > Always, they’re just trying to sell comics of a very boring character. Yeah, I always found Superman to be a boring character because he is so overpowered. Take “Superman Returns,” for example. In “Superman Returns,” it feels like Lex Luthor is the protagonist. He’s the one who has to think up plans to overcome challenges, he’s the one working hard to better himself (at least in his point of view), and it’s Luthor who is the plucky underdog who fights against seemingly impossible odds and who just won’t stay down, no matter how many times you imprison or impoverish him. Now compare to Superman. What does Superman spend the movie doing? Wait, what the fuck was Superman doing the whole film? Something about paternity fraud, right? ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2011, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/superman-renounces-his-american-citizenship/580094/63 "2011-04-29T16:08:14Z")
> [@Tom\_Scud](#): > > Superman did take on the Klan in the radio show. > > [Metroactive Books | Superman](http://www.metroactive.com/papers/metro/07.02.98/comics-9826.html) Not only did he take them on, but as this article (and others) point out, many believe this exposure was a potent force in helping bring down the Klan. Pretty impressive, for a superhero. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2011, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/superman-renounces-his-american-citizenship/580094/64 "2011-04-29T16:25:58Z")
> [@Intergalactic\_Gladiator](#): > > Correct me if I’m wrong but in John Byrne’s comics, Superman did not emerge form his birthing matrix until after his ship crashed in Kansas. If that is the case, then he’s as American as you, me, or anyone else who emerged from a birthing matrix within the United States. I never heard anything about a “birthing matrix,” and I thought that it was established that Jor-El’s BABY was sent to Earth after being born. However… 8 USC § 1401 declares that he’s a US citizen, because the following shall be nationals and citizens of the United States at birth: > [@](#): > > (f) a person of unknown parentage found in the United States while under the age of five years, until shown, prior to his attaining the age of twenty-one years, not to have been born in the United States… Unless “the universe” can issue passports, Superman’s renunciation may not even be effective, because there’s a strong presumption in international law to avoid creating a stateless person. ---
**Author:** ![Grumman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/43a26b/32.png) [@Grumman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grumman)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2011, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/superman-renounces-his-american-citizenship/580094/65 "2011-04-29T16:28:08Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > This doesn’t make a lot of sense - how does it help for him to renounce his US citizenship instead of doing something concrete? He’s renouncing his US citizenship so that he _can_ do something more concrete, without the US getting caught in the crossfire. It’s nothing more sinister than Spider-Man’s choice to hide his identity to protect Aunt May and MJ. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2011, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/superman-renounces-his-american-citizenship/580094/66 "2011-04-29T16:40:43Z")
> [@Jack\_Batty](#): > > Renounced his American citizenship?!? > > _TRAITOR!!!_ > I say we take this motherfucker out back and shoot him!! And then throw the gun at him. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![RikWriter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/49beb7/32.png) [@RikWriter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RikWriter)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2011, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/superman-renounces-his-american-citizenship/580094/67 "2011-04-29T16:46:52Z")
> [@WarmNPrickly](#): > > This is awesome. I may buy this comic just to collect. I love anything that puts the wing nuts panties in a bunch. You must have an incredibly extensive collection, given the political leanings of most comic book writers. ---
**Author:** ![joebuck20](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/74df32/32.png) [@joebuck20](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/joebuck20)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2011, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/superman-renounces-his-american-citizenship/580094/68 "2011-04-29T17:08:23Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > I never heard anything about a “birthing matrix,” and I thought that it was established that Jor-El’s BABY was sent to Earth after being born. > > However… 8 USC § 1401 declares that he’s a US citizen, because the following shall be nationals and citizens of the United States at birth: > > Unless “the universe” can issue passports, Superman’s renunciation may not even be effective, because there’s a strong presumption in international law to avoid creating a stateless person. Nuh-uh, doesn’t matter if he doesn’t have a long firm birth certificate signed with the blood of virgins. ---
**Author:** ![WarmNPrickly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/d78d45/32.png) [@WarmNPrickly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WarmNPrickly)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2011, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/superman-renounces-his-american-citizenship/580094/69 "2011-04-29T17:20:08Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > This is exactly what I mean, and the same flaw then as now. The writers in 1941 came up with the lame excuse that the American fighting man didn’t need any help, darn it! > > And they never mentioned the Klan at all. Because that would have been a crack in the reality they constructed just like mentioning the Iran protest. > > Superman can’t take on real world problems, because it leads almost inevitably to the question “why isn’t he doing something effective?” So what if he used his X-ray vision accidentally during the eye exam and wound up 4-F - fly over to Germany and melt down the tanks with your heat vision. And thereby save millions of lives. > > There are problems even Silver Age Superman could have tackled - establishing “Superman is in favor of racial equality during the 1950s” by having Supe battle the KKK would have been an incredibly bold as well as artistically possible approach - providing it happened in Smallville or Metropolis, and not in Mississippi. Because in Smallville “truth, justice and the American Way” are unambiguously valid. Not so in the real world, unless you are going to go all the way and really fight. And Superman is too powerful to have an excuse that he cannot do anything beyond protesting. > > To be fair, one of the first experiences I had towards an awakening of racial equality and equal rights came about because of comic books. It was Marvel, and the experience was reading about the [Black Panther](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Panther_%28comics%29). Because he was completely cool, and it didn’t make any difference at all that he was black, or that he shared a name with Bobby Seale’s organization - he was cool, and admirable, and an example of what a hero should be like. > > But you can do that with the Black Panther, because his powers are limited. Nobody expected him to defeat racism single-handed the way the 1950s version of Superman could have done. > > Regards, > Shodan I actually think I agree to some extent. With WWII, you had Nazi’s that were real villains. If there were any place in reality for Superman to intervene, that would have been it. The problem is, Superman could probably take down the Nazis all on his own, but that would diminish the actual fighting being done by actual soldiers in reality. The Nazi’s make much better fictional villains set in post WWII with imaginary super weapons. I don’t really know the politics behind the recent Superman shift. If it is largely based on today’s political scene, then I think in hindsight, that it will look silly. On the other hand, I really prefer to think of superman as a hero to all people on Earth, rather than just Americans. I think removing him from American politics is actually a good idea independent of what message the writers may think they are sending. I think having him identify as an American, does more to put him in today’s politics. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2011, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/superman-renounces-his-american-citizenship/580094/70 "2011-04-29T17:20:42Z")
Unlike real-world American policies, though, I’m sure the comic writers have an exit strategy. ---
**Author:** ![Capitaine\_Zombie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e95f7d/32.png) [@Capitaine\_Zombie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Capitaine_Zombie)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2011, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/superman-renounces-his-american-citizenship/580094/71 "2011-04-29T17:25:19Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > Unlike real-world American policies, though, I’m sure the comic writers have an exit strategy. Unlike real-world American policies, comic book writers’ most common exit strategy has been the reboot, used and abused. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2011, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/superman-renounces-his-american-citizenship/580094/72 "2011-04-29T18:09:49Z")
> [@KneadToKnow](#): > > I’m curious to know how you think Superman could defeat _racism_, [del]an almost universal[/del] a widespread human failing. This is akin to saying Superman could defeat _fear of heights_ or _poor reading for comprehension_. He could in his universe, because he was “truth, justice and the American way”. He certainly can’t in this one, which is why bringing him into it is a mistake (IMO). > [@Tom Scud](#): > > Superman did take on the Klan in the radio show. > > [http://www.metroactive.com/papers/me...mics-9826.html](http://www.metroactive.com/papers/me...mics-9826.html) I am not familiar with the radio show - just the Max Fleischer cartoons, the comic books from 1950 up to 1970 or so, and the TV show with George Reeves. Silver Age, mostly. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Jormungandr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/a6a055/32.png) [@Jormungandr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jormungandr)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2011, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/superman-renounces-his-american-citizenship/580094/73 "2011-04-29T18:41:50Z")
> [@WarmNPrickly](#): > > I actually think I agree to some extent. With WWII, you had Nazi’s that were real villains. If there were any place in reality for Superman to intervene, that would have been it. The problem is, Superman could probably take down the Nazis all on his own, but that would diminish the actual fighting being done by actual soldiers in reality. The Nazi’s make much better fictional villains set in post WWII with imaginary super weapons. DC addressed this during the “Final Crisis” series where the Superman of Earth-2 was barred from stopping the Nazis due to the Spear of Destiny. Any superhero who entered Nazi-controlled territory became under their control. Daily Caller’s David Treacher’s take on it [Superman a racist](http://dailycaller.com/2011/04/28/dc-comics-turns-superman-into-a-super-racist/), “We all know what this is really about. It’d be one thing if Superman renounced his U.S. citizenship under The Evil George Bush. But we put a black man in charge, and all of a sudden the Man of Steel heads for the exits? Nice try, Kracker-El. You might as well trade in that red cape for a white hood and join the Kryptonian Klux Klan.” ---
**Author:** ![Gangster\_Octopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a8b319/32.png) [@Gangster\_Octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gangster_Octopus)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2011, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/superman-renounces-his-american-citizenship/580094/74 "2011-04-29T18:43:33Z")
Wait? Superman is a real person? ---
**Author:** ![Capitaine\_Zombie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e95f7d/32.png) [@Capitaine\_Zombie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Capitaine_Zombie)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2011, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/superman-renounces-his-american-citizenship/580094/75 "2011-04-29T19:29:31Z")
> [@Jormungandr](#): > > Daily Caller’s David Treacher’s take on it [Superman a racist](http://dailycaller.com/2011/04/28/dc-comics-turns-superman-into-a-super-racist/), I have the feeling the writer of the article did not really believe what he wrote, but just started the conversation that way to provoke reactions. That said, as always, it is hard to establish who is the craziest here, the author or the comments posted on the page. BTW, Superman doesnt dress up in the American flag colors, unless yellow now runs on Old Glory. ---
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2011, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/superman-renounces-his-american-citizenship/580094/76 "2011-04-29T19:34:00Z")
> [@Capitaine\_Zombie](#): > > BTW, Superman doesnt dress up in the American flag colors, unless yellow now runs on Old Glory. I always knew he was a yellow commie undercover. Then again, maybe the man of steel didnt have access to a good bleaching detergent. Bachelors are pretty crappy when it comes to laundry you know. ---
**Author:** ![sqweels](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f19dbf/32.png) [@sqweels](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sqweels)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2011, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/superman-renounces-his-american-citizenship/580094/77 "2011-04-29T20:19:10Z")
> [@Revtim](#): > > Anything not rabidly American exceptionalist is PC bullshit (and liberal commie atheist too. And sometimes Kenyan.) If you think about it, the right-wing backlash is PC bullshit. Political Correctness is criticism of gestures which are in fact innocuous or reasonable, but which invoke misguided associations on the part of the aggrieved group to their sense of victimization. Conservative (neo- or otherwise so far as I can tell) often complain that the rest of the world has been picking on the US and that there’s an internationalist conspiracy to destroy or take over the US. So any hint of internationalism is seen as the New World Order rearing its ugly head and should therefore be vigorously condemned as unacceptable. ---
**Author:** ![Mister\_Rik](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mister_rik/32/491_2.png) [@Mister\_Rik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mister_Rik)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2011, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/superman-renounces-his-american-citizenship/580094/78 "2011-04-29T21:01:53Z")
Green Lantern ran into a situation a few years ago where he had to enter Russia (or another nearby, Eastern European nation) in the line of duty, and the local government’s metahumans were trying to run him out on the basis that American superheroes had no jurisdiction there. GL got into quite an argument with them over the fact that he was not there as an _American_, he was there as an officer of the _Green Lantern Corps_ and that his jurisdiction as a Green Lantern included every inch of space sector 2814, which includes all of Earth. ---
**Author:** ![Kamino\_Neko](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kamino_neko/32/34_2.png) [@Kamino\_Neko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kamino_Neko)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2011, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/superman-renounces-his-american-citizenship/580094/79 "2011-04-29T21:46:34Z")
> [@Mister\_Rik](#): > > Green Lantern ran into a situation a few years ago where he had to enter Russia (or another nearby, Eastern European nation) in the line of duty, and the local government’s metahumans were trying to run him out on the basis that American superheroes had no jurisdiction there. It was Russia - they sent the Rocket Reds after him. That was slightly more complicated, as, in the wake of the incident in Qurac (World War III mini), agreements were signed that the Americans would stay out of other countries unless invited. Said agreements have been ignored since. (Seems in universe, as much as out, since the events and attitudes surrounding them have been mentioned, but the legal force behind them hasn’t.) ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2011, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/superman-renounces-his-american-citizenship/580094/80 "2011-04-29T21:58:56Z")
Perhaps a krypton enema is in order? For the author, not the fictional character. This is why I don’t like new authors taking over old books or comics. The new author has absolutely no idea what the material represents. Superman was designed as a patriotic symbol. Hence the red & blue costume and the slogan “truth, justice, and the American Way”. \ I haven’t bought a comic in 35 years. I really don’t give a crap how much they ruin them. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/superman-renounces-his-american-citizenship/580094.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/superman-renounces-his-american-citizenship/580094.md?page=5)