# Superman renounces his American citizenship **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [April 28, 2011, 11:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/superman-renounces-his-american-citizenship/580094 "2011-04-28T23:50:32Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2011, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/superman-renounces-his-american-citizenship/580094/81 "2011-04-29T22:06:46Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > Perhaps a krypton enema is in order? For the author, not the fictional character. > > This is why I don’t like new authors taking over old books or comics. The new author has absolutely no idea what the material represents. Superman was designed as a patriotic symbol. Hence the red & blue costume and the slogan “truth, justice, and the American Way”. As has already been pointed out, “Truth, Justice, and the American way” was a late addition to the character, and the idea that the red and blue in his costume is meant to be patriotic seems unlikely, since the traditional colors associated with the US are red, _white_ and blue, and Supe’s costume is red, _yellow_, and blue. Any other evidence that Superman was designed to be a patriotic symbol? ---
**Author:** ![Jack\_Batty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jack_batty/32/3201_2.png) [@Jack\_Batty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Batty)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2011, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/superman-renounces-his-american-citizenship/580094/82 "2011-04-29T22:09:04Z")
And \*baby \*blue at that! ---
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2011, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/superman-renounces-his-american-citizenship/580094/83 "2011-04-29T22:10:56Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > Any other evidence that Superman was designed to be a patriotic symbol? I think that big assed bulge down low was definitely symbolic 🙂 And wasnt it “oh baby” blue? ---
**Author:** ![Spoke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e57/32.png) [@Spoke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoke)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2011, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/superman-renounces-his-american-citizenship/580094/84 "2011-04-29T22:17:51Z")
Hmmm. No particular allegiance to his own country…a focus on conflicts abroad… :eek: Beware the nefarious schemes of the International Superhero! ---
**Author:** ![WarmNPrickly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/d78d45/32.png) [@WarmNPrickly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WarmNPrickly)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2011, 12:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/superman-renounces-his-american-citizenship/580094/85 "2011-04-30T00:32:31Z")
> [@Jormungandr](#): > > Daily Caller’s David Treacher’s take on it [Superman a racist](http://dailycaller.com/2011/04/28/dc-comics-turns-superman-into-a-super-racist/), So, it’s racist if he renounces his American citizenship while a black president is in office, but it’s not racist if he does it while a white president is in office. Hold on a second, my irony meter just blew a fuse. That’s a ridiculous sentiment. I haven’t seen the issue in question, but if he actually renounces his citizenship rather than just mentioning that he was never really a citizen in the first place, it is a little bit more political than I’d like. Ideally, IMO, he was never really a citizen in the first place. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2011, 12:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/superman-renounces-his-american-citizenship/580094/86 "2011-04-30T00:52:28Z")
> [@KneadToKnow](#): > > [QUOTE=Shodan] > Nobody expected him to defeat racism single-handed the way the 1950s version of Superman could have done. I’m curious to know how you think Superman could defeat _racism_, [del]an almost universal[/del] a widespread human failing. This is akin to saying Superman could defeat _fear of heights_ or _poor reading for comprehension_. [/QUOTE] It was before my time, but from what I’ve heard Superman in the olden days would just have used his Super Anti-Racism Power to do it. Which would have never been mentioned before that issue, and probably wouldn’t ever be mentioned again either. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2011, 12:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/superman-renounces-his-american-citizenship/580094/87 "2011-04-30T00:54:53Z")
Thought this might be a good place to share this link: [The 25 most awesome Action Comics covers of all time](http://www.comicsalliance.com/2011/04/27/best-action-comics-covers/). ---
**Author:** ![Mister\_Rik](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mister_rik/32/491_2.png) [@Mister\_Rik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mister_Rik)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2011, 1:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/superman-renounces-his-american-citizenship/580094/88 "2011-04-30T01:40:33Z")
> [@Tengu](#): > > That was slightly more complicated, as, in the wake of the incident in Qurac (World War III mini), agreements were signed that the Americans would stay out of other countries unless invited. Ah, cool. The events in question happened shortly after I returned to collecting after an extended hiatus, so I wasn’t aware of those agreements. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2011, 3:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/superman-renounces-his-american-citizenship/580094/89 "2011-04-30T03:00:11Z")
> [@CalMeacham](#): > > Everyone’s citing that opening line “Truth, Justice, and the American Way” . I’d like to point out that the opening litany to the Fleischer SAtudi cartoons (which morphed into the Famous Studios cartoons) had simply “Truth, Justice”, with no mention of “the American Way”, despite being made during that patriotic era of World War II. It wasn’t until the 1950s TV series that Superman stood for “Truth, Justice, _and the American Way_”, something later incarnations kept up (Superman carries a huge US flag near the end of the first **Superman** movie with Christopher Reeve). > [@Miller](#): > > As has already been pointed out, “Truth, Justice, and the American way” was a late addition to the character, and the idea that the red and blue in his costume is meant to be patriotic seems unlikely, since the traditional colors associated with the US are red, _white_ and blue, and Supe’s costume is red, _yellow_, and blue. > > Any other evidence that Superman was designed to be a patriotic symbol? It’s not a late addition. How about [1942](http://www.nytimes.com/2006/06/30/opinion/30iht-ederik.2093103.html)? > [@](#): > > in autumn 1942, fans of the radio show became the first to hear about Superman’s battle for “truth, justice and the American way.” It was dropped in 1944, but revived for the 1952 tv show. The article gives other examples of variations over the years. ---
**Author:** ![Spoke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e57/32.png) [@Spoke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoke)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2011, 3:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/superman-renounces-his-american-citizenship/580094/90 "2011-04-30T03:27:56Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > Any other evidence that Superman was designed to be a patriotic symbol? “Designed” to be, no, but the [cover of Superman #14](http://d1466nnw0ex81e.cloudfront.net/iss/600w/114/111141/6594951_1.jpg) didn’t pull any punches on the patriotism. (Of course this was the first issue after Pearl Harbor, so the over-the-top nationalism is not surprising.) Even before that, I believe there was a one-pager on how Superman would solve the problems in Europe. (Basically by smacking around Hitler and Stalin. This would have been shortly after the fall of Poland.) Seems like Superman was the stand-in for America in that story. He was already fighting Nazis even before Pearl Harbor and the US entry into the War. Here’s [Superman #13](http://d1466nnw0ex81e.cloudfront.net/iss/450w/114/111141/6594931_1.jpg). Sure seems like a patriotic symbol there…an idealized American response to Nazis. ---
**Author:** ![Spoke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e57/32.png) [@Spoke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoke)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2011, 3:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/superman-renounces-his-american-citizenship/580094/91 "2011-04-30T03:35:34Z")
One more: [Superman #12](http://d1466nnw0ex81e.cloudfront.net/iss/600w/114/111141/6594911_1.jpg), also before Pearl Harbor. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2011, 3:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/superman-renounces-his-american-citizenship/580094/92 "2011-04-30T03:42:56Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > It’s not a late addition. How about [1942](http://www.nytimes.com/2006/06/30/opinion/30iht-ederik.2093103.html)? So, the slogan was added six years after the character debuting, and in an entirely different medium. Did either Siegal or Shuster write for the radio program? Some brief Googling on the question was inconclusive. Yeah, I don’t really see that as evidence that he was created as an American icon. Particularly if neither of the creators was writing for the radio program at the time. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2011, 6:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/superman-renounces-his-american-citizenship/580094/93 "2011-04-30T06:48:00Z")
> [@Spoke](#): > > Even before that, I believe there was a one-pager on how Superman would solve the problems in Europe. (Basically by smacking around Hitler and Stalin. This would have been shortly after the fall of Poland.) Seems like Superman was the stand-in for America in that story. That was a two-page special for a February 1940 issue of [_Look_ Magazine](http://www.scribd.com/doc/47477023/Superman-captures-Hitler-Stalin-Look-magazine). ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2011, 10:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/superman-renounces-his-american-citizenship/580094/94 "2011-04-30T10:35:47Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > It was before my time, but from what I’ve heard Superman in the olden days would just have used his Super Anti-Racism Power to do it. Which would have never been mentioned before that issue, and probably wouldn’t ever be mentioned again either. Thank you for this. You made me giggle. It’s like his “[super-weaving powers](http://superdickery.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=category&layout=blog&id=36&Itemid=53&limitstart=4)” or [rebuild-wall vision](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DfwHe0NqVvY). ---
**Author:** ![Revenant\_Threshold](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f1d935/32.png) [@Revenant\_Threshold](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revenant_Threshold)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2011, 2:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/superman-renounces-his-american-citizenship/580094/95 "2011-04-30T14:31:21Z")
> [@Spoke](#): > > Even before that, I believe there was a one-pager on how Superman would solve the problems in Europe. (Basically by smacking around Hitler and Stalin. This would have been shortly after the fall of Poland.) Seems like Superman was the stand-in for America in that story. In fact, even earlier than that, there was a run in the original comic strips in which Superman stops war between two very thinly-disguised Hitler and Stalin-a-likes in Europe by smacking them around. However - this was in the period where Superman was very much a social justice kind of guy. Forcing slum lords to mend their ways, and so on, as well as the usual defeating bank robbers. The way the story is written very much comes off as a victory for “the average man”, who Superman is representing, rather than America; the troopers who appear in the story aren’t harmed by Superman, but treated with respect. It’s only those in power he has a problem with. ---
**Author:** ![Capitaine\_Zombie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e95f7d/32.png) [@Capitaine\_Zombie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Capitaine_Zombie)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2011, 2:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/superman-renounces-his-american-citizenship/580094/96 "2011-04-30T14:49:26Z")
> [@Revenant\_Threshold](#): > > In fact, even earlier than that, there was a run in the original comic strips in which Superman stops war between two very thinly-disguised Hitler and Stalin-a-likes in Europe by smacking them around. > > However - this was in the period where Superman was very much a social justice kind of guy. Forcing slum lords to mend their ways, and so on, as well as the usual defeating bank robbers. The way the story is written very much comes off as a victory for “the average man”, who Superman is representing, rather than America; the troopers who appear in the story aren’t harmed by Superman, but treated with respect. It’s only those in power he has a problem with. Darn right, Superman as originally conceived could have been called SuperComrade with his frequent slappings of business bosses and heavy handed interventions in the free market game. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2011, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/superman-renounces-his-american-citizenship/580094/97 "2011-04-30T15:35:29Z")
Well, that and uncovering the truth behind the murder of Jack Kennedy. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2011, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/superman-renounces-his-american-citizenship/580094/98 "2011-04-30T15:54:43Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > So, the slogan was added six years after the character debuting, and in an entirely different medium. Did either Siegal or Shuster write for the radio program? Some brief Googling on the question was inconclusive. > > Yeah, I don’t really see that as evidence that he was created as an American icon. Particularly if neither of the creators was writing for the radio program at the time. Neither of the creators was writing for the comic book at the time, either. Siegel spent too much time complaining about the money he wasn’t being paid, and his crude early conception didn’t match the marketing force that Superman the idol had become. By 1942, Superman was appearing in three comic books, and had a syndicated comic strip to go with the successful radio show. Not to mention the Fleischer series of cartoons starting in 1941. And The Adventures of Superman, a novel by George Lowther that appeared in 1942 and set up many of the conventions we follow today. And the merchandising in toys and endorsements. National was a corporation and treated Superman as a brand. Far more people knew Superman from every other type of media than they did from the comic books. The writers were cogs who pandered to whatever was current. We in the future take the comic books as the only canon. But in 1942, the comic books were stupid things for kids and illiterates. The other media counted far more. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2011, 11:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/superman-renounces-his-american-citizenship/580094/99 "2011-04-30T23:54:19Z")
> [@WarmNPrickly](#): > > This is awesome. I may buy this comic just to collect. I love anything that puts the wing nuts panties in a bunch. Bingo! I’m gonna get it too 😃 ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2011, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/superman-renounces-his-american-citizenship/580094/100 "2011-05-01T18:16:57Z")
I usually don’t buy into the whole “Person X did something slightly critical of the President or foreign policy therefore he/she is a traitor” meme that seems to come up a lot, but in this situation, I’m having a hard time seeing this as anything but a giant slap in the face to the United States. The character just as easily could have said, “As an American, I don’t always agree with everything we do. We can make mistakes sometimes.” Or “Even though I am an American, I look after the interests of all of the world’s citizens.” But to come out and renounce your citizenship is one of the most unpatriotic and unAmerican things a person could do. I understand the outrage here. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/superman-renounces-his-american-citizenship/580094.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/superman-renounces-his-american-citizenship/580094.md?page=6)