# Superman "S" Question **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [October 8, 2003, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/superman-s-question/206373 "2003-10-08T22:56:14Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![ResIpsaLoquitor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/b3f665/32.png) [@ResIpsaLoquitor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ResIpsaLoquitor)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2003, 5:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/superman-s-question/206373/21 "2003-10-09T05:02:47Z")
We should throw in that in the modern John Byrne revision, the “S” was designed by Pa and Clark Kent. (Ma designed the rest of the costume.) You’ll note that in Pre-Crisis history, the “S” differed by era. The Superman of Earth-1 had the more traditional “S” of which we’re familiar, although it was slightly smaller than the more prominent S we see today. The Earth-2 Superman (who was the Superman that debuted in 1939) originally had a plain “S” in a rounder shield, and only later took the five-sided shape, but kept the plain “S.” The Superman of Earth-3 had a “U.” That’s another story. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![caveman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/caveman/32/7242_2.png) [@caveman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/caveman)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2003, 5:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/superman-s-question/206373/22 "2003-10-09T05:18:07Z")
The recently released _Blood of My Ancestors_ and _Birthright_ mini-series put a new-ish spin on these issues. ---
**Author:** ![shy\_guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a6a055/32.png) [@shy\_guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/shy_guy)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2003, 5:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/superman-s-question/206373/23 "2003-10-09T05:18:54Z")
The new Superman: Birthright series seems to explain the S as a Kryptonian symbol as well, if anyone cares. ---
**Author:** ![Askia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/96bed5/32.png) [@Askia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Askia)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2003, 5:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/superman-s-question/206373/24 "2003-10-09T05:22:55Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Vlad Dracul \* > \*\*… what are the odds that the House of El symbol would just HAPPEN to look like the letter that stands for the name that some human reporter just HAPPENS to tag Kal-El with?) \*\* It’s more common than you think. Ask [Galactus,](http://www.comicartforsale.com/commissions/sheppard/sheppard_f4.jpg) Devourer or Worlds! ---
**Author:** ![Vlad\_Dracul](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/50afbb/32.png) [@Vlad\_Dracul](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Vlad_Dracul)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2003, 5:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/superman-s-question/206373/25 "2003-10-09T05:32:35Z")
Thanks, Askia, but I’m not going anywhere NEAR Galactus! 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Kaitlyn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/73ab20/32.png) [@Kaitlyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kaitlyn)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2003, 5:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/superman-s-question/206373/26 "2003-10-09T05:35:02Z")
[Here](http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/1563894637/ref=lib_dp_TT01/002-6466107-0566463?v=glance&s=books&vi=reader&img=4#reader-link) is a copy of the first Sunday Superman comic, written and drawn by Seigel and Shuster. Scan throught the pages to the cover, and you can see a very clear closeup of the S. The creators clearly intended for the S to stand for Superman. ---
**Author:** ![Odinoneeye](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/97f17d/32.png) [@Odinoneeye](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odinoneeye)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2003, 6:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/superman-s-question/206373/27 "2003-10-09T06:20:19Z")
I seem to remember a story, pre-crisis that told of the symbol being even older. Something about a sword formed during the creation of the universe that had the symbol on it that Superman was fated to find. I’ll have to go through my comics to find this. Anyone else remember this? ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2003, 7:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/superman-s-question/206373/28 "2003-10-09T07:29:12Z")
Just to muddy up the waters, [_Superman Annual_ #10](http://superman.ws/tales2/sword/?page=1), (1984) was a story about “The Sword of Superman”, describing a sword formed at the moment of the big bang (i.e. ~14 to 20 billion years ago) with the “S” on the hilt. This story makes Superman out to be some kind of uber-cosmic character and is fanciful, even by comic-book standards. I have this issue, but it’s pretty dawn awful. ---
**Author:** ![Horatio\_Hellpop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Horatio\_Hellpop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatio_Hellpop)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2003, 7:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/superman-s-question/206373/29 "2003-10-09T07:33:49Z")
It’s actually a serpent trapped in a pentagram, or two yellow fish, depending on your occult bent. The whole “House of El” thing was an invention of the movie. Prior to 1985, Jor-El wore a green tunic with a totally different symbol on it, a sun or something. ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Ashtar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ea924/32.png) [@Lord\_Ashtar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Ashtar)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2003, 12:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/superman-s-question/206373/30 "2003-10-09T12:11:06Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by ResIpsaLoquitor \* > \*\*Superman of Earth-3 had a “U.” That’s another story. 😉 \*\* Okay, so what’s up with this? ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2003, 12:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/superman-s-question/206373/31 "2003-10-09T12:38:43Z")
> [@](#): > > Okay, so what’s up with this? It’s from an old (1960s) JLA story. Earth 1 and Earth 2 weren’t enough, so they brought in Earth 3, which had a “JLA” of bad guys, with powers similar to the JLA. Their version of Superman wore a costume with bare shoulders, and with a big “U”. I think it was for “Ultraman” (no relation to the Legion guy). Ironically, he _acquired_ powers when exposed to Kryptonite. ---
**Author:** ![godzillatemple](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/49beb7/32.png) [@godzillatemple](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/godzillatemple)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2003, 12:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/superman-s-question/206373/32 "2003-10-09T12:48:00Z")
It’s an **S**? Gee – all this time I thought the symbol was two yellow fish swimming in opposite directions against a red background… ---
**Author:** ![middleman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e9a140/32.png) [@middleman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/middleman)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2003, 2:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/superman-s-question/206373/33 "2003-10-09T14:02:31Z")
What if C-A-T really spells Dog? ---
**Author:** ![tomsalinsky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/87869e/32.png) [@tomsalinsky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomsalinsky)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2003, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/superman-s-question/206373/34 "2003-10-09T15:10:40Z")
IIRC when John Byrne began Superman again, the ‘S’ symbol was designed by Martha Kent, and was chosen over one which looked like the 1930s style ‘s’. Tom ---
**Author:** ![cmkeller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmkeller/32/118_2.png) [@cmkeller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmkeller)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2003, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/superman-s-question/206373/35 "2003-10-09T15:12:05Z")
In addition to Superman and Galactus, the “A” on Aquaman’s belt was retconned (in the Aquaman: Time and Tide miniseries) to actually be “a gutteral Ch’a” (presumably, an Atlantean symbol). Though, to be fair, we only _interpret_ it as an “A” because we’re so English-centric, his actual belt-symbol is just the upside-down “V” without the cross-bar that the English “A” possesses. Also, just to muddy the Superman waters a bit, I think the “S” symbol has a Kent connection as well. IIRC, in the “The Kents” maxi-series, a great-grandfather (or some such) of Jonathan Kent was given a blanket with an Indian symbol which looks amazingly like the Superman symbol. Supposedly, the “S” was a snake totem, and the pentagon around it represented five united tribes. ---
**Author:** ![ResIpsaLoquitor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/b3f665/32.png) [@ResIpsaLoquitor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ResIpsaLoquitor)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2003, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/superman-s-question/206373/36 "2003-10-09T16:02:39Z")
And let’s not forget that Apocalypse also has a big “A” on his belt. These guys must all shop at the same store. > [@](#): > > It’s an S? > > Gee – all this time I thought the symbol was two yellow fish swimming in opposite directions against a red background… Oh my dear lord… **Godzillatemple** is John Byrne! 😉 ---
**Author:** ![jimpatro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/b9e5f3/32.png) [@jimpatro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jimpatro)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2003, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/superman-s-question/206373/37 "2003-10-09T17:15:26Z")
Actually Vlad, it would make more sense that when someone was searching for a name to call this extraordinary man they would look at the strange symbol on his chest and come up with… ---
**Author:** ![photopat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/e95f7d/32.png) [@photopat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/photopat)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2003, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/superman-s-question/206373/38 "2003-10-09T19:25:26Z")
As far as I can tell, in the current mythos, _John_ Kent and Clark designed the “S” diamond logo while Martha was sewing the costume and to my knowledge that hasn’t been changed, while Jor-El’s Krypton didn’t have family crests like that at all and _Birthright_ appears to have more in common with the show _Smallville_ than it does with the comics canon and _Blood of My Ancestors_, while it may be considered continuity, doesn’t really establish the “S” symbol as it is, just a sort of s-like curve that is the “mark of Rao,” though mind you, that doesn’t mean it isn’t supposed to have been sort of prescient, but it’s not really the source of the S, unless Clark was unconsciously tapping his “genetic memory” of his family and was inspired by that ancient symbol without realizing it, and it just happened to be similar to that old symbol from the Kent family history. (Exhale) ---
**Author:** ![rjung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/45deac/32.png) [@rjung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjung)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2003, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/superman-s-question/206373/39 "2003-10-09T19:28:30Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Askia \* > Ask [Galactus,](http://www.comicartforsale.com/commissions/sheppard/sheppard_f4.jpg) Devourer or Worlds! That reminds me of the gag about the _real_ origin of Galactus… **Jack Kirby:** “Hey, Stan, look at who I drew for the FF to fight next issue.” **Stan Lee:** “Who’s this guy?” **Jack:** “God.” **Stan:** “God?” **Jack:** “Sure. Big ‘G’ on his chest, omnipotent, shows up on your planet and it’s all she wrote.” **Stan:** “I dunno, Jack… God?” **Jack:** “Hey, the FF are pretty tough. Ben Grimm ain’t no pansy, y’know.” 😃 ---
**Author:** ![tracer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tracer/32/20578_2.png) [@tracer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tracer)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2003, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/superman-s-question/206373/40 "2003-10-09T21:14:36Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by CalMeacham \* > \*\*It’s from an old (1960s) JLA story. Earth 1 and Earth 2 weren’t enough, so they brought in Earth 3, which had a “JLA” of bad guys, with powers similar to the JLA. Their version of Superman wore a costume with bare shoulders, and with a big “U”. I think it was for “Ultraman” (no relation to the Legion guy). Ironically, he _acquired_ powers when exposed to Kryptonite. \*\* I’d just like to point out at this juncture that _Saturday Night Live_ once did a sketch called “What if baby Superman had landed in Germany?” The premise was that he’d have been raised by Nazis and been the Third Reich’s most deadly weapon during World War II. His German name? Übermann, of course – with a “U” on his chest! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/superman-s-question/206373.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/superman-s-question/206373.md?page=3)