# Superman’s secret identity is the opposite of convention **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Tags:** comic-books-manga\ **Created:** [September 20, 2020, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/superman-s-secret-identity-is-the-opposite-of-convention/921095 "2020-09-20T19:28:48Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![gytalf2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/ac91a4/32.png) [@gytalf2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gytalf2000)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2020, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/superman-s-secret-identity-is-the-opposite-of-convention/921095/61 "2020-09-21T21:11:16Z")
I was very happy when they eliminated the “Don Blake” persona. Didn’t much care for Thor bothering to invent another identity, either. I never cared for the whole “secret identity” shenanigans, especially for characters as powerful as Thor or Superman. ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2020, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/superman-s-secret-identity-is-the-opposite-of-convention/921095/62 "2020-09-21T21:29:15Z")
Oh, and it should be also noted that, for a couple of years recently, Jane Foster served as Thor (when Thor Odinson came to the realization that he was unworthy of Mjolnir), and she managed to keep her identity secret from nearly everyone. The upcoming MCU film, _[Thor: Love and Thunder](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thor:_Ragnarok#Sequel)_, will evidently be based, in part, on that run of the comic book, with Jane taking on the role of Thor. [https://www.denofgeek.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/07/thor-4-jane-foster.jpg?fit=1200%2C680](https://www.denofgeek.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/07/thor-4-jane-foster.jpg?fit=1200%2C680) ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2020, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/superman-s-secret-identity-is-the-opposite-of-convention/921095/63 "2020-09-21T21:29:16Z")
The transformations some characters had undergone between when I had stopped reading comics (besides head comix) when I went to college in 1969 and when the MCU movies started coming out sometimes made my head spin. Now not only was Asgard multi-ethnic, Sergeant [Nick Fury](https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/marveldatabase/images/6/6d/Sgt_Fury_Vol_1_114.jpg/revision/latest/scale-to-width-down/340?cb=20081119181207), who I had last seen leading the Howling Commandos against the Nazis, had undergone [quite a transformation too.](https://img.cinemablend.com/filter:scale/cb/a/5/f/8/e/9/a5f8e9765a371839b396ece0a34b3a992bc49fd7752ef235fd17ee0065f7d9e1.jpg?mw=600) And as for [Captain Marvel!](https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-2ldR8gOI7rI/XLEl3br7mRI/AAAAAAAE98c/Sx-jeO0nUEkNaQsV2YypE-_7sXov24XgwCLcBGAs/s1600/whiz%2Bcomics.jpg) (Yes, I know they are different characters.) ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2020, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/superman-s-secret-identity-is-the-opposite-of-convention/921095/64 "2020-09-21T22:17:30Z")
> [@kenobi\_65](#): > > Odin removed the enchantment on Mjolnir which enabled the Donald Blake transformation, having deemed that Thor had learned the lessons which the Blake alter ego was meant to give – I think that that was in the early '80s. After that point, Thor did, for at least a little while, have a different human alter ego – he went by the name Sigurd Jarlson, and was a construction worker. However, I think that they pretty quickly retired the Sigurd identity. In the Ultimates storyline, Thor’s civilian identity was Thorlief Golmen. This origin had an interesting aspect; for a long time we were never shown Asgard or any of Thor’s mythological background - we only saw Thor as he appeared to the average Earthling. And the accepted story was that Thor wasn’t really a god; he was a regular human who had a mental breakdown and had the delusion that he was a god. His powers derived from Mjolnir, which was actually a high-tech weapon designed here on Earth not a magic hammer from Odin. Later in the story it was shown that Thorlief’s brother Gunnar Golmen was actually Loki and he had created all of Thorlief’s backstory in order to convince people that Thor was crazy. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2020, 10:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/superman-s-secret-identity-is-the-opposite-of-convention/921095/65 "2020-09-21T22:51:35Z")
> [@MrAtoz](#): > > It’s funny. I was going to mention the radio show–but come to completely the opposite conclusion. The Superman radio show is really more The Adventures of Clark Kent, Investigative Reporter. He spends most of his time as Clark, and (like the later George Reeves TV show), Clark is portrayed as smart, savvy, confident, and dogged in his pursuit of a story. Perry White explicitly calls him one of the Daily Planet’s best reporters. He only becomes Superman occasionally, to handle the odd train derailment or sinking ship that the bad guys have arranged. There are, in fact, episodes in which he never changes to Superman at all. The thing with Superman is, it’s impossible to tell good stories about Superman. He’s just too powerful-- Nothing can challenge him, as Superman. But it is possible to tell good stories about Clark Kent, facing the sorts of everyday human challenges that can’t be solved by throwing an aircraft carrier into orbit. To get a story, he has to put in the same sort of legwork as any human reporter. Being bulletproof won’t help him win Lois Lane’s heart, and his parents grow old and die just like any other human. All of the good Superman fiction, be it comic books, radio, television, movies, or whatever, realizes this. ---
**Author:** ![Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/elmer_j.fudd/32/1211_2.png) [@Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elmer_J.Fudd)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2020, 3:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/superman-s-secret-identity-is-the-opposite-of-convention/921095/66 "2020-09-22T03:56:14Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > But it is possible to tell good stories about Clark Kent, facing the sorts of everyday human challenges that can’t be solved by throwing an aircraft carrier into orbit. TV had the same problem with _The Incredible Hulk_ so they just made Banner the star of the show. ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2020, 11:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/superman-s-secret-identity-is-the-opposite-of-convention/921095/67 "2020-09-22T11:04:08Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > > [@MrAtoz](#): > > > > It’s funny. I was going to mention the radio show–but come to completely the opposite conclusion. The Superman radio show is really more The Adventures of Clark Kent, Investigative Reporter. He spends most of his time as Clark, and (like the later George Reeves TV show), Clark is portrayed as smart, savvy, confident, and dogged in his pursuit of a story. Perry White explicitly calls him one of the Daily Planet’s best reporters. He only becomes Superman occasionally, to handle the odd train derailment or sinking ship that the bad guys have arranged. There are, in fact, episodes in which he never changes to Superman at all. > > The thing with Superman is, it’s impossible to tell good stories about Superman. He’s just too powerful-- Nothing can challenge him, as Superman. > > But it is possible to tell good stories about Clark Kent, facing the sorts of everyday human challenges that can’t be solved by throwing an aircraft carrier into orbit. To get a story, he has to put in the same sort of legwork as any human reporter. Being bulletproof won’t help him win Lois Lane’s heart, and his parents grow old and die just like any other human. > > All of the good Superman fiction, be it comic books, radio, television, movies, or whatever, realizes this. Untrue. It is possible, and even simple, to tell a good Superman story: create a smart villain. One who is smart enough not to go up against him in a fight. The problem is that people expect superhero stories to end in a big fight scene. The best are those that solve a puzzle or concentrate on the characters. And Superman is a good character. He represents who we ideally would like to be. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2020, 12:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/superman-s-secret-identity-is-the-opposite-of-convention/921095/68 "2020-09-22T12:03:42Z")
The problem with _this_ is that for the villain to have a fighting chance, he has to offset Superman’s powers by being smarter than Superman; but if all of Superman’s enemies are smarter than he is, after a while he’ll start to come off as a bit of a idiot. ---
**Author:** ![Andy\_L](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c67d28/32.png) [@Andy\_L](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andy_L)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2020, 12:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/superman-s-secret-identity-is-the-opposite-of-convention/921095/69 "2020-09-22T12:14:38Z")
> [@MrAtoz](#): > > > [@Andy\_L](#): > > > > I admit that I’ve heard the old radio broadcasts, which feature a Superman who was out superheroing before he even considered adopting a human persona. In that rendition, “Clark” is a mask, and Supes is real. > > It’s funny. I was going to mention the radio show–but come to completely the opposite conclusion. The Superman radio show is really more The Adventures of Clark Kent, Investigative Reporter. He spends most of his time as Clark, and (like the later George Reeves TV show), Clark is portrayed as smart, savvy, confident, and dogged in his pursuit of a story. Perry White explicitly calls him one of the Daily Planet’s best reporters. He only becomes Superman occasionally, to handle the odd train derailment or sinking ship that the bad guys have arranged. There are, in fact, episodes in which he never changes to Superman at all. > > It’s true that the radio show had him arrive on Earth as a fully grown man (which was weird–they retconned that later), and immediately set out superheroing. But he adopted the Clark Kent identity in the second or third episode, and after that he never looked back. He was Clark Kent, crusading journalist, who changed to Superman every once in a while. I don’t disagree; in fact, in the story I was listening to most recently, Clark seemed to be keeping the very existence of Superman secret. He’d do stuff as Superman, but try not to be seen at all, except by people who would not be believed. But that strange bit about him coming to Earth as an adult at least opened up the possibility of “Superman” being the prime identity. ---
**Author:** ![MrAtoz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@MrAtoz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrAtoz)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2020, 12:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/superman-s-secret-identity-is-the-opposite-of-convention/921095/70 "2020-09-22T12:57:50Z")
That seems to have been true for awhile. I’ve been listening to the Superman radio series on podcast. I’m almost a year into the run of the show (a show that was broadcast 5 days a week, so that’s a lot of episodes), and he’s still trying to keep the very existence of Superman a secret. Jimmy Olsen has begun to believe that Superman is real, but most people treat him like he’s imagining things. There’s no public awareness of this super-powered being living among them. It’s quite different from the comics, or the way that most other media treat Superman. But to me it reinforces the idea that “Superman” is something that Clark Kent resorts to occasionally, when he has no other choice, and that he would prefer to keep completely separate from his regular life and job. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2020, 1:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/superman-s-secret-identity-is-the-opposite-of-convention/921095/71 "2020-09-22T13:37:42Z")
Secret identities can be an important part of a character who is very powerful in that it allows em to be a normal person with regular relationships. We can see in celebrity culture today or among the rich an owerful that the isolation from regular people robs em of empathy and sympathy. If we want Superman to be a “good” person, it makes sense for Superman to have a way to live a nondescript life in which he relates to regular people. The effects of the isolating effects of power is reflected in _The Boys_. If we don’t want Superman to become Homelander, then a secret identity is a reasonable story element. ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2020, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/superman-s-secret-identity-is-the-opposite-of-convention/921095/72 "2020-09-22T14:56:55Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > > [@RealityChuck](#): > > > > And the original comic book doesn’t bother with an explanation; he’s first shown as Superman (and the first few pages of the original comic strip are cut out). It’s clear that Superman is the main character and Kent is a disguise. He doesn’t even work for the Daily Star, but uses his powers to score a beat on a story and get the job. And he specifically says he needs to work at the paper so he could keep up with breaking news. So it’s clear that Superman uses the alias of Clark Kent to keep up on what was happening > > I don’t see it. The original comic book you’re referring to is ACTION COMICS #1, right? The first page tells us that “Clark decides he must turn his titanic strength into channels that would benefit mankind - and so was created…SUPERMAN!” > > The next panel reads: “A SCIENTIFIC EXPLANATION OF CLARK KENT’S AMAZING STRENGTH”; after that, yes, we see him saving the day in costume; but it’s followed by mention of how, as the narrator says, “next morning, Kent leaves for the newspaper upon which he works as a reporter…” It says that, but if you read the story, Clark is unimportant except as an alias to be near breaking news and when Superman wants to go undercover. I remember he was still trying to get a job as a reporter in the first issue, but I’m not sure if that was in Action #1 or in the comic strip that preceded it. The Clark-Lois-Superman triangle developed later, and in the beginning Clark didn’t show much interest in Lois. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2020, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/superman-s-secret-identity-is-the-opposite-of-convention/921095/73 "2020-09-22T15:03:52Z")
I believe I’m looking at the Action #1 story right now, and as far as I can tell it has Clark asking Lois out on a date and Lois saying she’ll give him a break for a change, and then we see them out dancing later that night; Clark then asks her: _“Why is it you always avoid me at the office?”_ ---
**Author:** ![Andy\_L](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c67d28/32.png) [@Andy\_L](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andy_L)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2020, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/superman-s-secret-identity-is-the-opposite-of-convention/921095/74 "2020-09-22T16:33:13Z")
> [@MrAtoz](#): > > That seems to have been true for awhile. I’ve been listening to the Superman radio series on podcast. I’m almost a year into the run of the show (a show that was broadcast 5 days a week, so that’s a lot of episodes), and he’s still trying to keep the very existence of Superman a secret. Jimmy Olsen has begun to believe that Superman is real, but most people treat him like he’s imagining things. There’s no public awareness of this super-powered being living among them. > > It’s quite different from the comics, or the way that most other media treat Superman. But to me it reinforces the idea that “Superman” is something that Clark Kent resorts to occasionally, when he has no other choice, and that he would prefer to keep completely separate from his regular life and job. Frankly, that keeps the radio show more grounded in reality. A world where people know that there is a demigod flying around rescuing people and the like is so different than our world that it becomes hard to tell relatable stories, but a world where the demigod not only has a secret identity, but also goes to some effort to keep his very existence unknown could be our world. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2020, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/superman-s-secret-identity-is-the-opposite-of-convention/921095/75 "2020-09-22T18:40:25Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > The effects of the isolating effects of power is reflected in _The Boys_ . If we don’t want Superman to become Homelander, then a secret identity is a reasonable story element. The point of Superman is that while he could be a tyrant overlord of the Earth, he was raised by salt-of-the-earth good decent American parents full of basic values that they imparted in him. Homelander is a parody of that, raised by scientists without any values. It’s his upbringing, not his lack of a secret identity, that made him psychotic, whereas Superman became a boy scout. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2020, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/superman-s-secret-identity-is-the-opposite-of-convention/921095/76 "2020-09-22T20:16:09Z")
It isn’t necessarily just one’s upbringing that makes a person what E is. It can also be ēs ongoing experience. For example, The cliche is that success Changes a person. Why is that? It’s because people’s behavior toward you changes. So even if Superman is raised well, if his adult experience is solely people treating him like a god, he might not stay that way. Homeland is a sociopath not only because of the way he was raised but also because people keep treating him like a god. Arguably if Superman loses his Clark Kent persona and stops relating to people as a regular guy, his upbringing might not be enough to keep him grounded. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2020, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/superman-s-secret-identity-is-the-opposite-of-convention/921095/77 "2020-09-22T20:30:45Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > Arguably if Superman loses his Clark Kent persona and stops relating to people as a regular guy, his upbringing might not be enough to keep him grounded. I just wanted to add that — uh, spoilers for the works of Alan Moore, I guess? — in _Whatever Happened To The Man Of Tomorrow_, Clark gets revealed to be Superman right there in the TV studio, and by the end of the story the son of Jor-El is now living as auto mechanic Jordan Elliot thanks to dyed hair and a mustache; this was right around when _Watchmen_ ended with Dan Dreiberg, who idolized auto mechanic Hollis Mason and is now known to be the costumed adventurer Nite Owl, now passing himself off as Sam Hollis thanks to dyed hair and a mustache. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2020, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/superman-s-secret-identity-is-the-opposite-of-convention/921095/78 "2020-09-22T21:33:44Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > It isn’t necessarily just one’s upbringing that makes a person what E is. Not necessarily, no. But if someone hammers that message home decade after decade you have to assume that’s what they want you to think. And I thought _The Boys_ made that lesson just as clear for Homelander. Didn’t he say it in so many words? ---
**Author:** ![TBG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c89c15/32.png) [@TBG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TBG)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2020, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/superman-s-secret-identity-is-the-opposite-of-convention/921095/79 "2020-10-31T20:53:13Z")
> [@kenobi\_65](#): > > Odin removed the enchantment on Mjolnir which enabled the Donald Blake transformation, having deemed that Thor had learned the lessons which the Blake alter ego was meant to give – I think that that was in the early '80s. After that point, Thor did, for at least a little while, have a different human alter ego – he went by the name Sigurd Jarlson, and was a construction worker. However, I think that they pretty quickly retired the Sigurd identity. > > ([https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DNvSEWzWsAEy9v4.jpg](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DNvSEWzWsAEy9v4.jpg)) > > Unlike the skinny and lame Donald Blake persona, Sigurd was brawny Thor, wearing glasses and with his long hair in a ponytail. They even hung a lampshade on it being like Superman posing as Clark Kent when they first introduced the alter ego. > > ([Reddit - Dive into anything](https://i.redd.it/bitcmzdjj0h01.jpg)) There are also Eric Masterson (after spending time as a replacement for Thor when he wasn’t around when the big T came back Eric got his own magic “hammer” or rather a mace and became Thunderstrike) and Jake Oleson who was an EMT and was hinted at having a nefarious past and I don’t know how that was resolved as I dropped the title at some point and when I came back Thor was just Thor again. Of course these were actual people, not just identities Thor took on, so it could have been more like Rick Jones and Captain Marvel (either of the two he was teamed with) sometimes changing places. ---
**Author:** ![digs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/digs/32/14889_2.png) [@digs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/digs)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2020, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/superman-s-secret-identity-is-the-opposite-of-convention/921095/80 "2020-10-31T21:01:01Z")
> [@Asuka](#): > > If Clark Kent was given a piece of pizza straight from the oven piping hot, can he just eat it right away despite it being dangerously hot since he’s Superman and it shouldn’t hurt him? He could, but of course he wouldn’t. Clark’s a nerd, and only hipsters try stuff before it becomes cool. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/superman-s-secret-identity-is-the-opposite-of-convention/921095.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/superman-s-secret-identity-is-the-opposite-of-convention/921095.md?page=5)