# Superman’s secret identity is the opposite of convention **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Tags:** comic-books-manga\ **Created:** [September 20, 2020, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/superman-s-secret-identity-is-the-opposite-of-convention/921095 "2020-09-20T19:28:48Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2020, 11:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/superman-s-secret-identity-is-the-opposite-of-convention/921095/121 "2020-12-02T23:16:23Z")
Also, “And you are Mr…” “Doctor.” “Mr. Doctor?” “It’s Strange!” “Who am I to judge?” ---
**Author:** ![digs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/digs/32/14889_2.png) [@digs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/digs)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2020, 11:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/superman-s-secret-identity-is-the-opposite-of-convention/921095/122 "2020-12-02T23:26:13Z")
Think about how guarded Supes and Bats and Spidey were. “Keeping secret identities” was so ingrained into the “super hero mythos” that the end of the first Iron Man movie was a huge surprise… Oh, looks like it was to the director as well: # [Robert Downey Jr. Improvised the Original ‘Iron Man’ Twist Ending](https://www.indiewire.com/2018/07/kevin-feige-robert-downey-jr-improvised-iron-man-twist-ending-1201986093/) ---
**Author:** ![gdave](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gdave/32/3683_2.png) [@gdave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gdave)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2020, 11:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/superman-s-secret-identity-is-the-opposite-of-convention/921095/123 "2020-12-02T23:26:34Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > You’re right, I was getting my X-Factors confused. The original team was pretending to be an anti-mutant organization, so they could secretly help the mutants they were supposedly oppressing, and now that I write that out, it’s not hard to understand how Professor “No, McCoy!” Xavier is usually the smartest guy in the room. Well, to be fair, IIRC, it wasn’t their idea. It was eventually revealed to be a convoluted scheme by an anti-mutant human supremacist who was pretending to be a pro-mutant human ally to get them to pretend to be anti-mutant humans while secretly acting as pro-human mutants, but manipulating the pro-human mutants into actually acting as anti-mutant humans. Or something. And when they found out, they did berate themselves for going along with the scheme in the first place. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2020, 11:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/superman-s-secret-identity-is-the-opposite-of-convention/921095/124 "2020-12-02T23:36:41Z")
> [@digs](#): > > Oh, looks like it was to the director as well: > > # [Robert Downey Jr. Improvised the Original ‘Iron Man’ Twist Ending](https://www.indiewire.com/2018/07/kevin-feige-robert-downey-jr-improvised-iron-man-twist-ending-1201986093/) I always thought that was a pretty offbeat idea for a secret identity to begin with; if, for the sake of argument, it works, then - what? _“Okay, I get that you have a grudge against Iron Man, but why take it out on me? I’m just the guy who tells him what to do, and pays him to do it!”_ ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2020, 11:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/superman-s-secret-identity-is-the-opposite-of-convention/921095/125 "2020-12-02T23:44:07Z")
“Hey, I didn’t come up with the idiot scheme! I was just duped into following it!” You remember when Cameron Hodge comes back from the dead, and he tries to hide his terrifying cyborg body behind a carboard cutout of a suit? I think he had a reasonable expectation that that would work, based on past experience with the team. [![](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EDyp1JbX4AA8Ptj.jpg) ](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EDyp1JbX4AA8Ptj.jpg) ---
**Author:** ![Andy\_L](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c67d28/32.png) [@Andy\_L](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andy_L)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2020, 12:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/superman-s-secret-identity-is-the-opposite-of-convention/921095/126 "2020-12-03T00:53:44Z")
Amusingly, DC also has a Doctor Strange, though he is almost always referred to by his full name (Doctor Hugo Strange) ---
**Author:** ![erysichthon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/d07c76/32.png) [@erysichthon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/erysichthon)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2020, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/superman-s-secret-identity-is-the-opposite-of-convention/921095/127 "2020-12-03T20:57:51Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Jimmy Olsen revealed that he had known about it for years, but didn’t let on so that Clark wouldn’t worry about it. Now THAT makes sense. I always figured that Jimmy and Lois knew, but were playing along with the charade to avoid hurting Superman’s feelings. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2020, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/superman-s-secret-identity-is-the-opposite-of-convention/921095/128 "2020-12-03T21:00:21Z")
Lois has known for decades at this point. They’re married and have a kid. ---
**Author:** ![erysichthon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/d07c76/32.png) [@erysichthon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/erysichthon)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2020, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/superman-s-secret-identity-is-the-opposite-of-convention/921095/129 "2020-12-03T21:03:15Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > Lois has known for decades at this point. You’ll have to cut me some slack here. I stopped reading Superman when the price of an issue went from 12 cents to 15 cents. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2020, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/superman-s-secret-identity-is-the-opposite-of-convention/921095/130 "2020-12-03T21:07:30Z")
> [@erysichthon](#): > > I always figured that Jimmy and Lois knew, but were playing along with the charade to avoid hurting Superman’s feelings. IIRC, Grant Morrison said he wrote Jimmy with a slightly-different idea in mind: that Jimmy concluded that Superman was Clark; and that Jimmy concluded that Superman, for some reason, didn’t want to let him in on it; and that Jimmy concluded, _hey, he’s Superman, he’s presumably got a good reason._ ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2020, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/superman-s-secret-identity-is-the-opposite-of-convention/921095/131 "2020-12-03T21:14:15Z")
Never mind the cyborg with the cardboard suit. Why is Superman’s partially-decomposed head spliced onto the upper body of a woman, which is in turn spliced onto the lower body of a much larger woman? ---
**Author:** ![KneadToKnow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kneadtoknow/32/3999_2.png) [@KneadToKnow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KneadToKnow)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2020, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/superman-s-secret-identity-is-the-opposite-of-convention/921095/132 "2020-12-03T21:20:15Z")
> [@MrAtoz](#): > > “‘Superman’ is what I can do. ‘Clark’ is who I am.” That line changed _everything_ and has completely redefined the character. Thank Rao, because that post-Crisis hammering on the “Last Son of Krypton” emo was beginning to wear thin even on Elliot S! Maggin. ---
**Author:** ![CaptMurdock](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/captmurdock/32/11736_2.png) [@CaptMurdock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CaptMurdock)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2020, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/superman-s-secret-identity-is-the-opposite-of-convention/921095/133 "2020-12-04T18:19:52Z")
To me, one of the best twistings of the convention was the Moon Knight incarnation of the 70s/early 80s: - His real identity is Marc Spector (!), an ex-soldier-of-fortune, who through a convoluted series of events takes the costumed identity of: - Moon Knight, who often needs information he supposedly can only get through high-society connections, so he masquerades as: - Steven Grant, millionaire philanthropist and art collector. (Fortunately, Marc Spector managed to invest his earning from his mercenary years wisely). However, Spector/MK sometimes needs to get The Word From The Street, so he becomes: - Jake Lockley, cab driver. Get all that? There will be a test later… ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2020, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/superman-s-secret-identity-is-the-opposite-of-convention/921095/134 "2020-12-04T18:58:08Z")
> [@CaptMurdock](#): > > - Spector/MK sometimes needs to get The Word From The Street, so he becomes: > - Jake Lockley, cab driver Batman has a similar “Matches Malone” identity (a small-time criminal who (at least in the continuity where he first showed up) got killed under circumstances such that only Batman knew he was dead, enabling him to use his identity to spy on the underworld). ---
**Author:** ![gdave](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gdave/32/3683_2.png) [@gdave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gdave)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2020, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/superman-s-secret-identity-is-the-opposite-of-convention/921095/135 "2020-12-04T19:03:59Z")
Which was inspired by the pulp-era hero, The Shadow, who (through various retcons) was a famed World War I aviator, Kent Allard, who fakes his own death and returns as “The Shadow”, while also maintaining several aliases, most prominently millionaire playboy Lamont Cranston, but also including businessman Henry Arnaud, elderly Isaac Twambley, and Fritz, a janitor at the police station. Interestingly, Lamont Cranston and Henry Arnaud were in-continuity actual people, and The Shadow just used their identities, apparently with their cooperation. Later iterations and interpretations often made Lamont Cranston his real identity, and also often dispensed with all of the alternate identities. Both Moon Knight and the Shadow have, in various appearances, also had retcons establishing those alternate identities being a result of Multiple Personality Disorder. As awareness and sensitivity towards mental health issues became more prevalent, and as controversy over the reality of Multiple Personality Disorder became more commonly known, I think that aspect has simply been ignored in the Shadow’s more recent appearances, and Moon Knight has been retconned back and forth a couple of times. The latest I’m aware of, Moon Knight had a series a couple of years ago written by Warren Ellis. Ellis’ version of Moon Knight had personas based on the phase of the moon. They weren’t true alternate personalities ala MPD, but were representations of different aspects/incarnations of the Egyptian moon god Khonshu. Moon Knight was also been retconned back and forth several times as to whether Khonshu actually exists or is a figment of Marc Spector’s imagination/mental illness, what Khonshu actually is (the literal Egyptian god or some other sort of supernatural entity taking on Khonshu’s guise), and whether Moon Knight is just a Batman-style gadgeteering crime fighter with a theme, or Golden Age Hawkman style divinely empowered avenger with weapons drawn from myth. ---
**Author:** ![Son\_of\_a\_Rich](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/son_of_a_rich/32/5439_2.png) [@Son\_of\_a\_Rich](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Son_of_a_Rich)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2020, 10:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/superman-s-secret-identity-is-the-opposite-of-convention/921095/136 "2020-12-04T22:23:39Z")
One of the reasons Superman maintained a secret identity for so long was the fact that every other story was his struggle to keep it secret. Made it easy on the writers. ---
**Author:** ![E-DUB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/e-dub/32/403_2.png) [@E-DUB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-DUB)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2020, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/superman-s-secret-identity-is-the-opposite-of-convention/921095/137 "2020-12-05T17:58:08Z")
I would recommend the book “Superman”. [https://www.amazon.com/Superman-High-Flying-History-Americas-Enduring/dp/0812980778](https://www.amazon.com/Superman-High-Flying-History-Americas-Enduring/dp/0812980778) It goes into depth on this subject. Also, someone upthread mentioned the Fantastic Four not having secret identities. But Johnny Storm aka The Human Torch seemed to in his solo adventures of the same time. I think Marvel later said that everybody was just going along with it. ---
**Author:** ![Guest-starring\_Id](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guest-starring_id/32/21736_2.png) [@Guest-starring\_Id](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guest-starring_Id)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2020, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/superman-s-secret-identity-is-the-opposite-of-convention/921095/138 "2020-12-05T19:07:50Z")
Didn’t read entire thread so this could’ve already been mentioned. IIRC a National Lampoon comic strip showed a scheming woman (Lois?) at a cocktail party, wondering if that Clark guy was in fact Superman, so she jumps out a window, and I have a vague memory of a panel showing the woman being held mid-air by a Clark Kent who didn’t have time to change into his superclothing, as she chides him to the effect of “HA! Busted! You _are_ superman!” I don’t remember the rest of the strip, but logic tells me that the next panel should’ve showed him going “well, fuck this, then”, and just dump her. ---
**Author:** ![gdave](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gdave/32/3683_2.png) [@gdave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gdave)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2020, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/superman-s-secret-identity-is-the-opposite-of-convention/921095/139 "2020-12-05T19:29:53Z")
> [@E-DUB](#): > > Also, someone upthread mentioned the Fantastic Four not having secret identities. But Johnny Storm aka The Human Torch seemed to in his solo adventures of the same time. I think Marvel later said that everybody was just going along with it. That sparks a memory. Possibly a Mandela effect false memory, but: IIRC, I’ve got a copy of a comic with the Human Torch on a solo adventure, and possibly the first appearance of the Wizard. The Wizard, in the story, is a stage magician, inventor, and daredevil, who for some reason decides to uncover the Human Torch’s secret identity. So he sets up an elaborate, convoluted scheme to get HT into a trap where he can extinguish HT’s flames and get a photo of his face. Which, of course, makes no sense whatsoever, given that all of the Fantastic Four are world famous celebrities with public identities… ---
**Author:** ![Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/elmer_j.fudd/32/1211_2.png) [@Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elmer_J.Fudd)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2020, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/superman-s-secret-identity-is-the-opposite-of-convention/921095/140 "2020-12-05T23:21:25Z")
The Human Torch’s solo adventures in _Strange Tales_ were an attempt to spin the Torch off into teen-themed situations similar to those in the new, wildly popular _Amazing Spider-Man_ book. Half of the drama in ASM arose from Peter Parker’s attempts to keep his identity a secret. That was Stan Lee’s brief to _Starnge Tales_ writer (and brother) Larry Lieber while Stan himself wrote a character in _Fantastic Four_ that apparently had no secret identity. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/superman-s-secret-identity-is-the-opposite-of-convention/921095.md?page=6)