# Superman the Movie vs. Man of Steel **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [December 11, 2013, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/superman-the-movie-vs-man-of-steel/676109 "2013-12-11T21:57:56Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![amorali](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3e96dc/32.png) [@amorali](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amorali)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2013, 12:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/superman-the-movie-vs-man-of-steel/676109/41 "2013-12-14T00:28:57Z")
I was a kid when I saw Superman for the first time but I still believe that the way Reeves played him was just perfect. He had an innocent confidence that felt like it was truly out of the 50’s. I love the way he played Superman to this day. Anyone heard of the “how did this get made” pod cast? They did Superman III and in the episode before it they interviewed the guy who played Zod’s grunting friend. Can’t remember his name, the big guy who doesn’t talk. Great interview with lots of behind the scenes stories that haven’t been shared before. ---
**Author:** ![Jragon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e19b73/32.png) [@Jragon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jragon)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2013, 12:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/superman-the-movie-vs-man-of-steel/676109/42 "2013-12-14T00:54:39Z")
I still think the [world of cardboard](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cl_5UwS57X8) moment from the animated Justice League series is the best moment possible for Superman, and really defines what I think of when I think of Superman’s character. I think a serious Superman movie should really run with the premise that he’s a boyscout that loves people and is loved in return, but that actually achieving that is hard. Just because it’s too easy for him to rip off the arm of the man he’s handshaking, let alone not give into anger when punching Lex Luthor and accidentally paste him. (Though I’ll admit I didn’t mind the neck snap as much as some people) Nevermind that in that clip he knocks Darkseid through a bunch of buildings in a clearly populated area, and then proceeds to lose that fight 😛 ---
**Author:** ![amorali](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3e96dc/32.png) [@amorali](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amorali)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2013, 1:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/superman-the-movie-vs-man-of-steel/676109/43 "2013-12-14T01:53:18Z")
Questions about MOS: If he could fly why did he need to join that team to get to the place at the pole? How was Lois able to walk around there at night wearing just a coat and hat without her eyeballs freezing? Why did the floating parking meter thing attack Clark? Why did his powers kick in later in his child hood? Didn’t his dad die after he already knew he could fly? Why didn’t they take the dog to begin with? If they had space ships why couldn’t they take the ships off the planet to go to earth with him? How did he eat and what happened to his poop in the space ship? Why was his father able to create a version of himself but not the mother? Does Kevin Costner really look that bad now? ---
**Author:** ![BMalion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e274bd/32.png) [@BMalion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BMalion)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2013, 2:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/superman-the-movie-vs-man-of-steel/676109/44 "2013-12-14T02:07:06Z")
> [@Ike\_Witt](#): > > Otisburg? > > … It’s just a little place. ---
**Author:** ![Quimby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/22d042/32.png) [@Quimby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quimby)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2013, 4:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/superman-the-movie-vs-man-of-steel/676109/45 "2013-12-14T04:02:33Z")
> [@Simplicio](#): > > (Superman II is still the only _good_ Superman movie). It’s funny, as a kid I loved Superman II and thought Superman was boring; as an adult, I like Superman II but find parts of it silly and kind of dumb but really enjoy the original. ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Ashtar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ea924/32.png) [@Lord\_Ashtar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Ashtar)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2013, 5:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/superman-the-movie-vs-man-of-steel/676109/46 "2013-12-14T05:34:43Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > Exactly. Imagine that scene minus the digression into Abbott-and-Costello territory and he’s just a self-assured guy who chuckles at his own wisecracks before amiably transitioning to earnest seriousness. And a moment later, he’s gloating over the big guy but there’s not a hint of silliness. > > But what sticks in the memory? Otisburg. > > Likewise for how we first meet him: he’s got cameras in place, the better to (a) monitor the situation and (b) murder that cop with push-button convenience. He then pointedly growls to Otis that _you were followed…_ > > …and Otis bumblingly spins around, knocking over a lamp for to take Lex right into sarcastic eye-roll territory. If we see Lex condescendingly explain to Miss Tessmacher how he expects to kill Superman, we can expect Otis to end the scene on a different note by seeing how much fun he can have saying “burnoose” and “Addis Ababa”. > > If he’d been played by a black actor, the movie would be unwatchable. Take out Otis and you get the scene on the boat with Kitty in Superman Returns. I may be in the minority, but I kinda liked Kevin Spacey’s Lex. He seemed genuinely disgusted with what (who) he had to do to get money to fund his schemes, and he played him like he was really impressed with himself when he was describing his plot to grow a continent. Now that it’s been mentioned, I kinda have to go with the Superman from the JLA cartoons as the best depiction of traditional Kal-El. They had the most time to develop the character, so they got it closest to what was in the comics. That being said, I really dig what they did with the character in Man of Steel. I’m really looking forward to the next film. ---
**Author:** ![Roundabout](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/dec6dc/32.png) [@Roundabout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Roundabout)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2013, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/superman-the-movie-vs-man-of-steel/676109/47 "2013-12-14T16:01:44Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > Dude. It was bad, but _Quest for Peace_ bad? Remember [this guy?](http://m5.paperblog.com/i/57/576243/superman-iv-the-quest-for-peace-1987-L-0Jh81d.jpeg) Of course you don’t. You repressed all memory of him, to make the nightmares stop. I’d agree. Superman Returns was a mess on every level, but nothing can compare to Nuclear Man ---
**Author:** ![amorali](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3e96dc/32.png) [@amorali](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amorali)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2013, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/superman-the-movie-vs-man-of-steel/676109/48 "2013-12-14T20:11:51Z")
> [@Lord\_Ashtar](#): > > Take out Otis and you get the scene on the boat with Kitty in Superman Returns. > > I may be in the minority, but I kinda liked Kevin Spacey’s Lex. He seemed genuinely disgusted with what (who) he had to do to get money to fund his schemes, and he played him like he was really impressed with himself when he was describing his plot to grow a continent. > > Now that it’s been mentioned, I kinda have to go with the Superman from the JLA cartoons as the best depiction of traditional Kal-El. They had the most time to develop the character, so they got it closest to what was in the comics. That being said, I really dig what they did with the character in Man of Steel. I’m really looking forward to the next film. Parker posey was awful! ---
**Author:** ![BMalion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e274bd/32.png) [@BMalion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BMalion)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2013, 12:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/superman-the-movie-vs-man-of-steel/676109/49 "2013-12-15T00:10:13Z")
I watched _Superman_ last night, and I think I’ll watch _Superman II_ tonight. All because of this thread, thanks. ---
**Author:** ![Roundabout](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/dec6dc/32.png) [@Roundabout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Roundabout)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2013, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/superman-the-movie-vs-man-of-steel/676109/50 "2013-12-15T18:14:25Z")
> [@BMalion](#): > > I watched _Superman_ last night, and I think I’ll watch _Superman II_ tonight. > > All because of this thread, thanks. Np. I’m glad you’re giving them a try. Let us know what you think. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2013, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/superman-the-movie-vs-man-of-steel/676109/51 "2013-12-15T18:15:39Z")
I rewatched _Superman II_ about six months ago, after not seeing it since I was a kid. Honestly? It kind of sucks. ---
**Author:** ![BMalion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e274bd/32.png) [@BMalion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BMalion)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2013, 11:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/superman-the-movie-vs-man-of-steel/676109/52 "2013-12-15T23:47:00Z")
> [@Roundabout](#): > > Np. I’m glad you’re giving them a try. Let us know what you think. I enjoyed them immensly. ---
**Author:** ![Roundabout](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/dec6dc/32.png) [@Roundabout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Roundabout)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2013, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/superman-the-movie-vs-man-of-steel/676109/53 "2013-12-16T15:03:03Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > I rewatched _Superman II_ about six months ago, after not seeing it since I was a kid. > > Honestly? It kind of sucks. Yeah, I’m not a big fan of SII either. ---
**Author:** ![Roundabout](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/dec6dc/32.png) [@Roundabout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Roundabout)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2013, 3:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/superman-the-movie-vs-man-of-steel/676109/54 "2013-12-16T15:05:18Z")
> [@BMalion](#): > > I enjoyed them immensly. Awesome. What aspects of the film did you like? What’d you think about Christopher Reeve? ---
**Author:** ![D\_Odds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/d_odds/32/2882_2.png) [@D\_Odds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Odds)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2013, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/superman-the-movie-vs-man-of-steel/676109/55 "2013-12-16T16:28:39Z")
Not even close - _Superman: The Movie_. 1. It had a better Superman. (Cavill was so pale and lifeless I thought he was playing Zombie Superman) 2. It had a better Lois Lane. 3. More personable Perry. 4. While _Man of Steel_ had a better actor as Pa Kent, the part as written was a failure. 5. _Man of Steel_ has better villains, as Lex Luthor never really seemed a threat, just a nuisance. It wasn’t until _Superman Returns_ that he was a threat, but that movie had a host of other failings. But the biggest failing of _Man of Steel_ was Superman killing Zod. Superman does NOT kill. A good writer who appreciates and respects the source material would have incorporated that, not shit upon it the way MoS did. I’ve never been a big Superman fan (though I am a comic book fan), but this is a core tenet of his character and that one scene had me leaving the movie disgusted (even more so than Tim Burton’s Batman killing mooks right and left). ---
**Author:** ![astorian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ad7895/32.png) [@astorian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astorian)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2013, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/superman-the-movie-vs-man-of-steel/676109/56 "2013-12-16T17:07:32Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > Dude. It was bad, but _Quest for Peace_ bad? Remember [this guy?](http://m5.paperblog.com/i/57/576243/superman-iv-the-quest-for-peace-1987-L-0Jh81d.jpeg) Of course you don’t. You repressed all memory of him, to make the nightmares stop. Actually, I never saw it- after _ **Superman 3** _ with Richard Pryor, I figured they’d run out of ideas, and I never bothered to watch any of the others with Reeve. ---
**Author:** ![epbrown01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7ba0ec/32.png) [@epbrown01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/epbrown01)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2013, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/superman-the-movie-vs-man-of-steel/676109/57 "2013-12-16T19:59:47Z")
> [@D\_Odds](#): > > But the biggest failing of _Man of Steel_ was Superman killing Zod. Superman does NOT kill. A good writer who appreciates and respects the source material would have incorporated that, not shit upon it the way MoS did. I’ve never been a big Superman fan (though I am a comic book fan), but this is a core tenet of his character and that one scene had me leaving the movie disgusted (even more so than Tim Burton’s Batman killing mooks right and left). Actually. Batman doesn’t kill. Well, all comics heroes are willing to kill on the big screen, but in the comics Batman’s the most adamant. Supes has shown a willingness to kill as a last resort, as he tends to face bad guys so powerful they can’t be stopped any other way - sometimes, not even killing them works (Darkseid). More concerning from a character perspective is the Cavill version’s cavalier attitude about collateral damage/casualties. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2013, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/superman-the-movie-vs-man-of-steel/676109/58 "2013-12-16T21:31:52Z")
> [@D\_Odds](#): > > Not even close - _Superman: The Movie_. > > 1. It had a better Superman. (Cavill was so pale and lifeless I thought he was playing Zombie Superman) > 2. It had a better Lois Lane. > 3. More personable Perry. > 4. While _Man of Steel_ had a better actor as Pa Kent, the part as written was a failure. > 5. _Man of Steel_ has better villains, as Lex Luthor never really seemed a threat, just a nuisance. It wasn’t until _Superman Returns_ that he was a threat, but that movie had a host of other failings. > > But the biggest failing of _Man of Steel_ was Superman killing Zod. Superman does NOT kill. A good writer who appreciates and respects the source material would have incorporated that, not shit upon it the way MoS did. I’ve never been a big Superman fan (though I am a comic book fan), but this is a core tenet of his character and that one scene had me leaving the movie disgusted (even more so than Tim Burton’s Batman killing mooks right and left). Except, in comics, [Superman did kill general Zod.](http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/4/46385/2932470-Superman_kills_01.jpg) Of course, in the comics, that was after years and years of Superman not killing any one at all, and afterwards, he was so ashamed that he gave up the cloak and boots for a while. It was a BIG DEAL when he did it in the comics. In movie terms, Superman killing Zod should have been the “downer climax” to the second film in a trilogy, like Luke getting his hand chopped off in ESB, or Batman taking the blame for killing Dent in _Dark Knight._ The first film should have made a point of him not killing people, to set up how desperate he is when he fights Zod in the second. ---
**Author:** ![BMalion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e274bd/32.png) [@BMalion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BMalion)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2013, 10:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/superman-the-movie-vs-man-of-steel/676109/59 "2013-12-16T22:31:02Z")
> [@Roundabout](#): > > Awesome. What aspects of the film did you like? What’d you think about Christopher Reeve? I liked Reeve as Clark/Superman, the voice and the wholesomeness. I loved Gene Hackman as Lex. The 70’s feel. ---
**Author:** ![Alba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ea666f/32.png) [@Alba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alba)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2013, 1:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/superman-the-movie-vs-man-of-steel/676109/60 "2013-12-17T13:09:39Z")
I like MoS more than StM. The “dark” or “serious” theme of the movie was also to my liking. I find that in StM, and especially Burton’s Batman, the films we’re unable to capture the mix of silly and serious which is so well done in the comics. I agree that is difficult to accomplish on film. So I’d rather just see it heavy on the serious side with just a dash of silliness. > [@Miller](#): > > The first film should have made a point of him not killing people, to set up how desperate he is when he fights Zod in the second. To me he seemed desperate enough to kill him. I was surprised that he actually did so. Maybe MoS II will show how much it affected Super. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/superman-the-movie-vs-man-of-steel/676109.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/superman-the-movie-vs-man-of-steel/676109.md?page=4)