# Supernatural 9/18 **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [September 18, 2008, 1:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/supernatural-9-18/464139 "2008-09-18T13:33:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Small\_Hen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ad7895/32.png) [@Small\_Hen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Small_Hen)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2008, 1:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/supernatural-9-18/464139/41 "2008-09-20T01:29:34Z")
> [@levdrakon](#): > > Dean is going to be so pissed when he finds out. Especially If Sam helped her escape, and worse, helped her get a body. And is now having sex with her in it. That has to qualify as some kind of mystical rape, right? ---
**Author:** ![Love\_Rhombus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/love_rhombus/32/10694_2.png) [@Love\_Rhombus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Love_Rhombus)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2008, 2:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/supernatural-9-18/464139/42 "2008-09-20T02:07:58Z")
> [@Small\_Hen](#): > > And is now having sex with her in it. That has to qualify as some kind of mystical rape, right? Even ookier, what if the girl was like dead or in a coma when Ruby jumped in? Besides, he was shacking up with that other girl, so I doubt he and Ruby are bedpals. Probably she’s his teacher. And I hope the new guy isn’t Lucifer. That’s someone who really can’t be portrayed by anyone without being underwhelming. I DO think perhaps he isn’t on the level. Is that the name of a “real” angel? ---
**Author:** ![elfkin477](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/a9a28c/32.png) [@elfkin477](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elfkin477)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2008, 2:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/supernatural-9-18/464139/43 "2008-09-20T02:13:56Z")
> [@Noelq](#): > > 1. Ruby’s body got KILLED/killed last season (as opposed to just killed, and then coming back). How sure are you of this? The last we saw Lillith had possessed her body, but we know for 100% this isn’t fatal because the little girl was okay after being possessed by her earlier in the episode. Then Lillith unpossessed Ruby, _maybe_ dragging Ruby out of the body too though that [wasn’t made clear](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ajhjUWX7tQ) in the episode, and she fell to the ground. That’s all because Sam didn’t even get the chance to stab her. Why would we think she was dead rather than just ousted? Until they showed her in a new body, there wasn’t any reason to believe that Ruby was yanked out too… ---
**Author:** ![Love\_Rhombus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/love_rhombus/32/10694_2.png) [@Love\_Rhombus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Love_Rhombus)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2008, 2:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/supernatural-9-18/464139/44 "2008-09-20T02:21:30Z")
> [@elfkin477](#): > > How sure are you of this? The last we saw Lillith had possessed her body, but we know for 100% this isn’t fatal because the little girl was okay after being possessed by her earlier in the episode. Then Lillith unpossessed Ruby, _maybe_ dragging Ruby out of the body too though that [wasn’t made clear](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ajhjUWX7tQ) in the episode, and she fell to the ground. That’s all because Sam didn’t even get the chance to stab her. Why would we think she was dead rather than just ousted? Until they showed her in a new body, there wasn’t any reason to believe that Ruby was yanked out too… She did say she’d sent Ruby somewhere far away. ---
**Author:** ![RikWriter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/49beb7/32.png) [@RikWriter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RikWriter)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2008, 2:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/supernatural-9-18/464139/45 "2008-09-20T02:29:08Z")
> [@Love\_Rhombus](#): > > Even ookier, what if the girl was like dead or in a coma when Ruby jumped in? Besides, he was shacking up with that other girl, so I doubt he and Ruby are bedpals. The girl from the beginning (Kathy… It’s Christie) WAS Ruby, if that’s the shacking up you’re talking about. ---
**Author:** ![starryspice](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9e8a1a/32.png) [@starryspice](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/starryspice)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2008, 5:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/supernatural-9-18/464139/46 "2008-09-20T05:17:15Z")
> [@Love\_Rhombus](#): > > And I hope the new guy isn’t Lucifer. That’s someone who really can’t be portrayed by anyone without being underwhelming. I DO think perhaps he isn’t on the level. Is that the name of a “real” angel? As a matter of fact, Castiel is the Angel of Thursdays. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Dijon\_Warlock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a9a28c/32.png) [@Dijon\_Warlock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dijon_Warlock)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2008, 12:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/supernatural-9-18/464139/47 "2008-09-20T12:19:00Z")
Haven’t heard of the name Castiel before, but [here’s the Wikipedia on Cassiel, which I HAVE heard of.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cassiel) It states that this angel was used in the 9/18 episode of Supernatural. That’s what I was thinking of when I watched the show; but I can’t account for the pronunciation change. ---
**Author:** ![Love\_Rhombus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/love_rhombus/32/10694_2.png) [@Love\_Rhombus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Love_Rhombus)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2008, 2:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/supernatural-9-18/464139/48 "2008-09-20T14:38:18Z")
> [@RikWriter](#): > > The girl from the beginning (Kathy… It’s Christie) WAS Ruby, if that’s the shacking up you’re talking about. Well, crap. Perhaps she looked diffirent to me with more clothes on. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2008, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/supernatural-9-18/464139/49 "2008-09-20T18:36:20Z")
Dean as Christ - fascinating. I too missed those parallels. I was too busy thinking about the Buffy parallel - “Doesn’t anybody know to dig up the body when they resurrect someone? Sheesh.” **gallows fodder** , how do you know that isn’t Jensen Ackles’ body? He is pretty ripped. ---
**Author:** ![Kythereia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/e8c25b/32.png) [@Kythereia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kythereia)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2008, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/supernatural-9-18/464139/50 "2008-09-20T19:25:25Z")
> [@featherlou](#): > > **gallows fodder** , how do you know that isn’t Jensen Ackles’ body? He is pretty ripped. Trust me, as someone in the online fandom: it’s a Photoshop. There would’ve been a _lot_ more combusted panties otherwise. 😉 Thoughts on the episode: 1. BROTHER HUGGING! LINGERING GLANCES! SAM WEARING DEAN’S AMULET! _broken capslock_ 2. Helloooo, Mr. Ackles. 3. I choose to believe that Sam is not doing Ruby and that the whole ‘Kristy’ thing is a cover story, because a) Sam flat-out says he still doesn’t trust her, b) either that’s rape or some sort of weird necrophilia thing, and that is wrong, c) it’s massively OOC for him. Possibly they’re shacking up while she teaches him something-or-other. 4. Castiel is a creepy mofo–he blinds cute psychic Pam (not to mention the innocent bodies of those diner demons) in a horrifically gruesome way, and when called on it by Dean, basically goes “Eh, I warned her”. My guesses (spoiler box for speculation): [SPOILER]The whole thing is angling towards a brother versus brother fight, IMHO. And so: 1. Castiel is the real deal, and needs Dean to kill Sam. Dean refuses and Castiel unleashes the wrath of Heaven, and Sam will be called upon to either a) embrace his dark powers fully and precipitate an all-out war between angels and demons, or b) surrender all his dark powers to save Dean, and get a pissed-off Lilith closing in for the kill. Castiel will move to protect Sam now that he’s light-side, and the war will begin. 2. Castiel is the real deal, and needs Dean to save Sam, in some sort of fashion or other. Sam may call Castiel into doubt and eventually refuse to be saved, which will lead to situation 1a, or be saved, which will lead to situation 1b. 3. Castiel is not the real deal, and is in league with Lilith to put brother against brother and take them both out. Dean and/or Sam will realize this too late.[/SPOILER] ---
**Author:** ![gallows\_fodder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8c91f0/32.png) [@gallows\_fodder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gallows_fodder)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2008, 12:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/supernatural-9-18/464139/51 "2008-09-21T00:16:49Z")
> [@Kythereia](#): > > Trust me, as someone in the online fandom: it’s a Photoshop. There would’ve been a _lot_ more combusted panties otherwise. 😉 Yep. You can tell by the strange neckless head and its angle (and the graininess of the image would mask the difference in skin tones). Besides, we all know what Dean really looks like [first thing in the morning](http://i34.tinypic.com/slmwi1.jpg). 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2008, 3:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/supernatural-9-18/464139/52 "2008-09-21T03:20:50Z")
> [@gallows\_fodder](#): > > Yep. You can tell by the strange neckless head and its angle (and the graininess of the image would mask the difference in skin tones). > > Besides, we all know what Dean really looks like [first thing in the morning](http://i34.tinypic.com/slmwi1.jpg). 😛 Eh, I still wouldn’t kick him out of bed. 🙂 Dang - I really liked that picture. Maybe I’ll just hang onto my fantasy in the cold, harsh light of reality. As for **Kythereia’s** point 4, it doesn’t strain my belief to have an angel be cruel and callous. _They’re_ not gods - they’re God’s soldiers. ---
**Author:** ![Small\_Hen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ad7895/32.png) [@Small\_Hen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Small_Hen)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2008, 4:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/supernatural-9-18/464139/53 "2008-09-21T04:51:13Z")
> [@featherlou](#): > > Eh, I still wouldn’t kick him out of bed. 🙂 > > Dang - I really liked that picture. Maybe I’ll just hang onto my fantasy in the cold, harsh light of reality. > > As for **Kythereia’s** point 4, it doesn’t strain my belief to have an angel be cruel and callous. _They’re_ not gods - they’re God’s soldiers. Agreed. It’s not Castiels’ fault that the sight of him blinds people. Not like it’s malicious. As Metratron said, “We went through five Adams before we figure that one out.” Maybe next time when a spirit begs annoying psychic to look away, she will. ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2008, 2:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/supernatural-9-18/464139/54 "2008-09-21T14:13:36Z")
I’m actually hoping Cassiel is from God and that Dean is needed to stop some great evil. It’d be much more interesting than it turning out that Cassiel is some rouge Angel that is messing with God’s ultimate plan. Am I the only one who was waiting, cringing, expecting Cassiel to say, “No, Dean. I’m Satan.” I was so relieved when the show didn’t go for the obvious “uberdemon”. ---
**Author:** ![Dinsdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/97f17d/32.png) [@Dinsdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dinsdale)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2008, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/supernatural-9-18/464139/55 "2008-09-21T16:49:46Z")
Looked at the listings again. There was a Cubs game in the evening. Supernatural was broadcast sometime around midnight… Blankety-blank baseball! :mad: ---
**Author:** ![Kythereia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/e8c25b/32.png) [@Kythereia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kythereia)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2008, 11:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/supernatural-9-18/464139/56 "2008-09-21T23:40:02Z")
> [@gallows\_fodder](#): > > Besides, we all know what Dean really looks like [first thing in the morning](http://i34.tinypic.com/slmwi1.jpg). 😛 And yet, still my dream guy. :rolleyes: 😃 As for Castiel: even if Pam was annoying about it, she didn’t get deserved to get blinded and permanently scarred. She’s a psychic, the guy can’t ring her up and say, “Woman, you’ll get horrifically maimed if you see my true face, now knock it off”? And yes, it’s not his fault he blinds people. It’s not the diner people’s fault they were possessed by demons, either–and how exactly did they get dead in the first place? There’s a line between badass and creepy mofo, and I can’t help feeling like Castiel walked over it. ---
**Author:** ![DianaG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7ab992/32.png) [@DianaG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DianaG)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2008, 1:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/supernatural-9-18/464139/57 "2008-09-22T13:06:30Z")
If Castiel’s story is true, I think the important thing that we’re all missing here is that even \*God \*has a crush on Dean. I’ll have to rewatch to confirm, but I don’t think the girl in Sam’s room at the beginning was Ruby. > [@elfkin](#): > > How sure are you of this? The last we saw Lillith had possessed her body, but we know for 100% this isn’t fatal because the little girl was okay after being possessed by her earlier in the episode. Then Lillith unpossessed Ruby, maybe dragging Ruby out of the body too though that wasn’t made clear in the episode, and she fell to the ground. That’s all because Sam didn’t even get the chance to stab her. Why would we think she was dead rather than just ousted? Until they showed her in a new body, there wasn’t any reason to believe that Ruby was yanked out too… Was it ever established that OldRuby’s body was alive while she was in it? Demons can possess the living or the dead. If the body is okay when the demon vacates, then the person will be okay. If the body is dead when the demon vacates, well… the person is dead. I also don’t think that Sam had anything to do with Ruby’s new incarnation. Ruby is perfectly capable of finding herself a fresh meat suit, she doesn’t need Sam’s help for that. I’m guessing she came to him, not vice versa. And just to get it out of the way, I vastly preferred the former actress, but I’m hoping this one will grow on me. Or, even better, that they’ll just keep killing Ruby’s bodies off, and we’ll get a MysterySpecialGuestRuby every week! ---
**Author:** ![AuntiePam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f19dbf/32.png) [@AuntiePam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AuntiePam)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2008, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/supernatural-9-18/464139/58 "2008-09-22T15:36:32Z")
> [@DianaG](#): > > I’ll have to rewatch to confirm, but I don’t think the girl in Sam’s room at the beginning was Ruby. I was skeptical too. I rewatched and it’s Ruby. Her mouth is distinctive. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2008, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/supernatural-9-18/464139/59 "2008-09-22T16:57:12Z")
> [@Kythereia](#): > > There’s a line between badass and creepy mofo, and I can’t help feeling like Castiel walked over it. For angels, I don’t see that line. I think they are both. ETA: Which fits in perfectly with this show. This is no warm, fuzzy “Ghost Whisperer.” 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![drewcosten](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/13edae/32.png) [@drewcosten](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drewcosten)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2008, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/supernatural-9-18/464139/60 "2008-09-22T17:02:03Z")
> [@AuntiePam](#): > > I was skeptical too. I rewatched and it’s Ruby. Her mouth is distinctive. [TV.com](http://www.tv.com/supernatural/lazarus-rising/episode/1216075/summary.html) says Kristy/Ruby was played by Genevieve Cortese. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/supernatural-9-18/464139.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/supernatural-9-18/464139.md?page=4)