# Superstition is the Enemy of All Mankind. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [May 13, 2003, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/superstition-is-the-enemy-of-all-mankind/174976 "2003-05-13T16:03:13Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Mockingbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c68b51/32.png) [@Mockingbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mockingbird)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2003, 4:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/superstition-is-the-enemy-of-all-mankind/174976/21 "2003-05-14T04:46:54Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Q.E.D. \* > \*\*Unless there’s a scientifically-proven reason to believe otherwise, no. Believe what you want, that’s fine by me, but if you’re going to rub it in MY face, you better be able to back it up with solid facts. \*\* Rub it in your face? RexDart was making a nasty slur. That is what I and lola were responding to. How is that rubbing it in your face? ---
**Author:** ![RexDart](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/b77776/32.png) [@RexDart](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RexDart)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2003, 4:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/superstition-is-the-enemy-of-all-mankind/174976/22 "2003-05-14T04:48:10Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Mockingbird \* > \*\*So, why _is_ it acceptable to mock, laugh at, and be religiously intolerant of pagans? > \*\* Well, maybe it’s because they _BELIEVE IN MAGIC_!!! When we link somebody to Snopes to bust an urban legend, is this being intolerant of someone who really believed that Bill Gates was going to send them $500, or that some millionaire in Nigeria really did die and they need your help to get the money out? If we explain how a magic trick works, is this being intolerant to someone who thought it was a real example of telekinesis? If we explain how a Yogi mystic is able to walk across fire or lie on a bed of nails is that intolerant because we didn’t blindly accept the assertions of those who believed he did these things magically? If all there is to paganism or Wicca or any of that these days is a philosophy of man’s place in relation to nature, then knock yourself out and have a good time. If you just think the rituals are fun and neat-looking, then you’ll get no complaints from me. But…if you actually believe that you’re casting spells, or that your sacred forest ritual will invoke some supernatural power, or that you share a spiritual power connection with some stump or rock formation via mysterious ley lines, or that wearing a symbol on a necklace will protect you from bad fortune, or any other bit of supernatural mumbo-jumbo, then that’s something else entirely. Something laughable to me, and worthy of my scorn. All religions are a little funny in some ways. I mean, what’s with all the arms on those Hindu deities? But at least most common religions try to avoid making easily disprovable claims by putting all their miracles and such waaaaay in the past. And most religions don’t use _magic_. Magic is like pro wrestling. It still makes for good entertainment, but nobody past the age of 8 still believes it’s real or takes it seriously. Stamp out the ignorance in one or two individual ignorant superstitions, and that’s commended. Stamp out an entire set of ignorant superstitions, and apparently that being “religiously intolerant.” Go figure. ---
**Author:** ![Q.E.D](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/51bf81/32.png) [@Q.E.D](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Q.E.D)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2003, 4:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/superstition-is-the-enemy-of-all-mankind/174976/23 "2003-05-14T04:49:26Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Dissonance \* > \*\*I don’t presume to speak for **kung fu lola** , and while I don’t personally buy into Wicca, dismissing someone’s religion as ‘crap’ is a bit presumptuous. \*\* All religion is crap. Not one has any real basis in science behind it. Show me irrefutable proof of god, and i’ll eat my words. ---
**Author:** ![Q.E.D](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/51bf81/32.png) [@Q.E.D](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Q.E.D)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2003, 4:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/superstition-is-the-enemy-of-all-mankind/174976/24 "2003-05-14T04:52:48Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Mockingbird \* > \*\*Rub it in your face? > > RexDart was making a nasty slur. That is what I and lola were responding to. How is that rubbing it in your face? \*\* Extremism on my part, perhaps. Nevertheless, I fail to see what **RexDart** said that was so terribly offensive. ---
**Author:** ![gobear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8dc957/32.png) [@gobear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gobear)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2003, 4:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/superstition-is-the-enemy-of-all-mankind/174976/25 "2003-05-14T04:54:44Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Q.E.D. \* > \*\*All religion is crap. Not one has any real basis in science behind it. Show me irrefutable proof of god, and i’ll eat my words. \*\* But that’s not the point. I, too, believe that there are no gods or spirits, but unless I am provoked, I don’t boorishly assert the nonexistence of deities. I may not respect theism in general, but because I respect people, I show respect for the things they believe, however false I may think them to be. ---
**Author:** ![Mockingbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c68b51/32.png) [@Mockingbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mockingbird)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2003, 4:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/superstition-is-the-enemy-of-all-mankind/174976/26 "2003-05-14T04:57:19Z")
Wow. You both have some serious issues going on. Both of you think it is acceptable to deride the faith of others in a hostile fashion, and then _demand_ proof. Laughable. Worthy of scorn. That is intolerance. Religious intolerance. ---
**Author:** ![Dissonance](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/85f322/32.png) [@Dissonance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dissonance)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2003, 5:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/superstition-is-the-enemy-of-all-mankind/174976/27 "2003-05-14T05:02:12Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Q.E.D. \* > \*\*All religion is crap. Not one has any real basis in science behind it. Show me irrefutable proof of god, and i’ll eat my words. \*\* Start a new thread and I’ll debate it. Religion is by definition not based on logic. I’m fairly atheistic myself, but disrespecting people because of their religious belief is quite frankly rude. ---
**Author:** ![RexDart](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/b77776/32.png) [@RexDart](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RexDart)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2003, 5:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/superstition-is-the-enemy-of-all-mankind/174976/28 "2003-05-14T05:02:51Z")
OK, we’ll call an end to the thread hijack. I only brought it up as a way to compare what the perception of witchcraft is in the U.S. to places where it’s still taken to be a serious threat. I think all superstitions share the common thread of being ignorant and wrongheaded, but that superstitions in the US are just worthy of occasionaly scorn makes this a much better place to be in than where they lead to witchhunts. I can respect the Jews and Christians who arrived at their religions through critical thought, and because they have a coherent system of thought, founded on incorrect beliefs though it might be. Judging from the dozen or so Wiccans I’ve met, Wicca is just some trendy thing for disillusioned teenagers who pick it because it’s asthetically pleasing or because it complements their pre-existing beliefs in feminism or environmentalism. I stand by my statements, that’s all I have to say, and I’ll leave it at that as far as this thread is concerned. ---
**Author:** ![Q.E.D](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/51bf81/32.png) [@Q.E.D](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Q.E.D)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2003, 5:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/superstition-is-the-enemy-of-all-mankind/174976/29 "2003-05-14T05:07:14Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by gobear \* > \*\*But that’s not the point. I, too, believe that there are no gods or spirits, but unless I am provoked, I don’t boorishly assert the nonexistence of deities. I may not respect theism in general, but because I respect people, I show respect for the things they believe, however false I may think them to be. \*\* That’s one of the big problems with the world today. If more people had the balls to say “that’s a load of crap”, we wouldn’t have half the problems we have today. Beliefs are fine as far as they go, but if there’s no substantial proof behind them them, they’re pointless. You wanna believe what amounts to pure water can cure disease because it’s been exposed to an active ingredient of equally dubious efficacy, you go right ahead. ---
**Author:** ![Fenris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fenris/32/498_2.png) [@Fenris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fenris)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2003, 5:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/superstition-is-the-enemy-of-all-mankind/174976/30 "2003-05-14T05:08:17Z")
Hey **Rex** , **Q.E.D** ; I’m curious. I understand it’s cute to mock Pagans and all, but where’s the venom for…oh…say Jewish people? We’ve got “superstitions” too, right? Strange, I don’t see the sort of trollish drive-bys that I see in this thread and others about other religions. Let’s rephrase **Rex** ’s post in a different light. Before someone screams, note complete _lack_ of the quote tags. It ain’t against the rules if there’s no quote tag. Once you’ve seen some ignorant “Jew” running around in a shawl and prayer-beanie trying to appease his God, and then going to his job at the convenience store, that pretty much kills any fear of Jews you might have. Fear being replaced with hysterical laughter and mockery. **Rex** , you’re being an unmitigated dickhead, and frankly, I’d say that under Board rules, this post clearly counts as ban-worthy hate-speech. Just because Wiccans are a tiny minority doesn’t mean it’s ok to spew your venom. Fenris, incredibly offended ---
**Author:** ![gobear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8dc957/32.png) [@gobear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gobear)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2003, 5:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/superstition-is-the-enemy-of-all-mankind/174976/31 "2003-05-14T05:10:43Z")
> [@](#): > > But…if you actually believe that you’re casting spells, or that your sacred forest ritual will invoke some supernatural power, or that you share a spiritual power connection with some stump or rock formation via mysterious ley lines, or that wearing a symbol on a necklace will protect you from bad fortune, or any other bit of supernatural mumbo-jumbo, then that’s something else entirely. Something laughable to me, and worthy of my scorn. But who placed you in such a superior vantage point that you can mock others for their beliefs? Do you laugh at Catholics for their belief that the ritual of the Mass can change bread and wine into the Body and Blood of Christ? Do you mock Jews who believe that Goddelieverd thei ancestors from bondage in Egypt? The tales of miracles and prophets that are common to religions may not be true in a literal sense, but they possess a deeper truth. Mythologies exist as more than Just So stories to explain why the sun rises or why thunder reverberates in the sky. Relgion is man’s attempt to find meaning to his existence and to codify his relations with his neighbors. Religions give people moral standards to help them live in communities in common harmony. The great works of religious expression, from the design of cathedral spires to lonely stupas on windswept Tibetan highlands, from the moral disctates of the Bible to the transcendent beauty of the Diamond Sutra, have evoked man’s deepest hopes and aspirations. ---
**Author:** ![Q.E.D](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/51bf81/32.png) [@Q.E.D](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Q.E.D)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2003, 5:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/superstition-is-the-enemy-of-all-mankind/174976/32 "2003-05-14T05:10:51Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Mockingbird \* > \*\* > That is intolerance. Religious intolerance. \*\* No, I’m completely tolerant of different religious views. I think they’re total crap, but i’ll still tolerate them. ---
**Author:** ![Q.E.D](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/51bf81/32.png) [@Q.E.D](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Q.E.D)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2003, 5:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/superstition-is-the-enemy-of-all-mankind/174976/33 "2003-05-14T05:16:54Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Fenris \* > **Let’s rephrase Rex’s post in a different light. Before someone screams, note complete _lack_ of the quote tags. It ain’t against the rules if there’s no quote tag.** WTF? That’s not anything even close to what **RexDart** was saying. And IMHO that post totally violates the SDMB policy against the appearance of misquoting another poster. ---
**Author:** ![Dissonance](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/85f322/32.png) [@Dissonance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dissonance)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2003, 5:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/superstition-is-the-enemy-of-all-mankind/174976/34 "2003-05-14T05:18:03Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Q.E.D. \* > \*\*No, I’m completely tolerant of different religious views. I think they’re total crap, but i’ll still tolerate them. \*\* Funny, I caught flagrant intolerance. ---
**Author:** ![Mockingbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c68b51/32.png) [@Mockingbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mockingbird)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2003, 5:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/superstition-is-the-enemy-of-all-mankind/174976/35 "2003-05-14T05:20:31Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Q.E.D. \* > \*\*No, I’m completely tolerant of different religious views. I think they’re total crap, but i’ll still tolerate them. \*\* Wrong _again_. When you continue to insult, that isn’t tolerance. ---
**Author:** ![Zenster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/cdc98d/32.png) [@Zenster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zenster)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2003, 5:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/superstition-is-the-enemy-of-all-mankind/174976/36 "2003-05-14T05:22:13Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Mockingbird \* > So, why _is_ it acceptable to mock, laugh at, and be religiously intolerant of pagans? > > Quite often of late, I have seen mockery of pagans or outright slurring. > > In a recent thread, I was called a “baby eating satanist.” > > Cold. Nasty. Hateful. And it should be unacceptable. But, it goes on and on. > > While there have been posters who have been majorly intolerant of Christians, they were given what for by other posters and the mods. > > When an “Ask The Pagan” thread was open a few years ago, it quickly devolved into mockery from many board members leading to two pit threads, one of which focused on me. > commonly > As long as a pagan mentions it in passing, little is said about it. > > Some have said that they mock and ridicule such things because they are “stamping out ignorance.” > > Yet isn’t it _quite_ ignorant to make fun of someone’s faith? While it is not appropriate to mock or deride someone’s declared faith, some people have a difficult time accepting the current form of Wiccan paganism because it was conjured up (as it were) so recently. Much the same way how the Christian church regards Mormonism as an interloper, I suppose. I’ve been to many Wiccan rituals. I’ve met a lot of peaceful and harmonious people at such events. "Do what thou wilt and harm no one, " isn’t really a very bad motto. I think they do themselves a lot of damage by comingling their pantheon with new age belief in crystals plus other dubious practices. No, they don’t cook up babies for Sunday lunch and they have literally zero to do with Satanism, contrary to what the established churches so often blat about. However, while cladding themselves in the traditional garments of ancient proto-religious nomenclature, they have adopted a lot of pseudoscience that tends to make them look a bit ridiculous. That’s just my 2¢. ---
**Author:** ![Leaper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/4bbf92/32.png) [@Leaper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaper)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2003, 5:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/superstition-is-the-enemy-of-all-mankind/174976/37 "2003-05-14T05:23:19Z")
Boy, where were **RexDart** and **Q.E.D.** when I [started a thread about whether we would be better off without spirituality/religion](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=159069)? It would’ve been so interesting to see the back and forth…! ---
**Author:** ![Fenris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fenris/32/498_2.png) [@Fenris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fenris)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2003, 5:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/superstition-is-the-enemy-of-all-mankind/174976/38 "2003-05-14T05:24:14Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Q.E.D. \* > \*\*WTF? That’s not anything even close to what **RexDart** was saying. And IMHO that post totally violates the SDMB policy against the appearance of misquoting another poster. \*\* Luckily, you’re wrong on all counts. 1. Look again Cuddles, it’s _exactly_ his words with about 4 Wiccan references replaced with about 4 Jewish ones. _EXACTLY_ the same thing he was saying, just not as much fun of a religion to bash. 2. The magic standard is the quote tag or the appearance of putting words into another’s mouth. Since I didn’t start the red text with “Rex said…” and even a casual observer would have to be pretty damned dumb to miss the entire “Let’s recast Rex’s post” intro, I’ve got no worries. Fenris ---
**Author:** ![Mockingbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c68b51/32.png) [@Mockingbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mockingbird)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2003, 5:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/superstition-is-the-enemy-of-all-mankind/174976/39 "2003-05-14T05:26:19Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by RexDart \* > \*\*OK, we’ll call an end to the thread hijack. I only brought it up as a way to compare what the perception of witchcraft is in the U.S. to places where it’s still taken to be a serious threat. I think all superstitions share the common thread of being ignorant and wrongheaded, but that superstitions in the US are just worthy of occasionaly scorn makes this a much better place to be in than where they lead to witchhunts. I can respect the Jews and Christians who arrived at their religions through critical thought, and because they have a coherent system of thought, founded on incorrect beliefs though it might be. Judging from the dozen or so Wiccans I’ve met, Wicca is just some trendy thing for disillusioned teenagers who pick it because it’s asthetically pleasing or because it complements their pre-existing beliefs in feminism or environmentalism. I stand by my statements, that’s all I have to say, and I’ll leave it at that as far as this thread is concerned. \*\* Wow. RexDart talking out of his ass, showing ignorance of that which he decries. What a _shock_. Wicca is an aspect of paganism. You obviously know nothing about it. Let me point you at a text: Drawing Down the Moon by Margot Adler. For an overview of contemporary paganism, you won’t find a better book. Of course, I assume you’ll stay with your cherished ignorance. ---
**Author:** ![Mockingbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c68b51/32.png) [@Mockingbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mockingbird)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2003, 5:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/superstition-is-the-enemy-of-all-mankind/174976/40 "2003-05-14T05:30:06Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Zenster \* > \*\*While it is not appropriate to mock or deride someone’s declared faith, some people have a difficult time accepting the current form of Wiccan paganism because it was conjured up (as it were) so recently. Much the same way how the Christian church regards Mormonism as an interloper, I suppose. > > I’ve been to many Wiccan rituals. I’ve met a lot of peaceful and harmonious people at such events. "Do what thou wilt and harm no one, " isn’t really a very bad motto. I think they do themselves a lot of damage by comingling their pantheon with new age belief in crystals plus other dubious practices. No, they don’t cook up babies for Sunday lunch and they have literally zero to do with Satanism, contrary to what the established churches so often blat about. However, while cladding themselves in the traditional garments of ancient proto-religious nomenclature, they have adopted a lot of pseudoscience that tends to make them look a bit ridiculous. That’s just my 2¢. \*\* A wiccan is generally considered pagan. Not all pagans are wiccans. There is a lot more out there. Wiccans are just more visible. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/superstition-is-the-enemy-of-all-mankind/174976.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/superstition-is-the-enemy-of-all-mankind/174976.md?page=3)