# Superstition is the Enemy of All Mankind. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [May 13, 2003, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/superstition-is-the-enemy-of-all-mankind/174976 "2003-05-13T16:03:13Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 17\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Juniper200](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/df788c/32.png) [@Juniper200](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Juniper200)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2003, 9:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/superstition-is-the-enemy-of-all-mankind/174976/61 "2003-05-14T09:20:37Z")
> [@](#): > > _Originally posted by Mockingbird_\*\* > When an “Ask The Pagan” thread was open a few years ago, it quickly devolved into mockery from many board members leading to two pit threads, one of which focused on me.\*\* Don’t cast yourself as a martyr here; be fair. You got into hot water in that thread because [your mouth was writing checks your ass couldn’t cash](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?postid=1278914#1278914). For those unfamiliar with that thread, scroll down a few posts to where **Czarcasm** calls **Mockingbird/Hastur** ’s bluff and **Hastur** starts backpedaling like it’s the last leg of the Tour de France. ---
**Author:** ![Siege](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dbc845/32.png) [@Siege](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siege)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2003, 10:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/superstition-is-the-enemy-of-all-mankind/174976/62 "2003-05-14T10:02:16Z")
**RexDart** , I appreciate your apology, but I’m afraid I still have to add my two cents. You see, of the three Wiccans I know well, all three are above average in intelligence. One of them is our own **agentfroot**. At least one of the other two went from Fundamentalist Christians to hard atheist (of the “How can anyone _believe_ that junk?!” ilk); the other’s his wife. He’s a reasonably prosperous science fiction writer; his wife was a music teacher. The woman who got them into Wicca was a Presbyterian minister with a doctorate in theology, and recently retired from a rather successful career as a psychotherapist. Fast food workers, they ain’t! You distinguished doing magic from prayer. To their minds, the rituals they do are the exact same thing, with the same feeling and intent as the praying they did back in their Christian days. I’m a devout Christian myself, but I’ve been in rituals with them, and I have to agree. I know it looks silly and ridiculous, and Lord (or Goddess) knows there are what my friends call “fluffy bunny” pagans just as there are saccharine style “Jesus loves you” Christians. It’s just that I tend to avoid both! ::shudder:: Getting back to the OP, it was horrifying. I may be a Christian, but I am still appalled by people using a travesty of any religion to justify their actions. I know things are desparate there. I hope I never have to find out what it’s like to be faced with mouths I can’t feed or a disease I can’t cure. There are massive problems over there, and there’s not a blamed thing I can do about them, and I have no idea what anyone can do. Come to think of it, is it any wonder prayer is comforting? It’s the last resort of the hopeless. Oh, if the tone sounds familiar, but the username doesn’t, I used to be cjhoworth. CJ ---
**Author:** ![Dunderman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ecb155/32.png) [@Dunderman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dunderman)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2003, 10:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/superstition-is-the-enemy-of-all-mankind/174976/63 "2003-05-14T10:17:07Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Q.E.D. \* > \*\*Cite? I can’t stand them either, but I’ve never seen a reputable source making such claims about them. \*\* To avoid hi-jacking this thread more, I opened a [new thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=183929) about this. ---
**Author:** ![Blake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a9a28c/32.png) [@Blake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blake)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2003, 10:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/superstition-is-the-enemy-of-all-mankind/174976/64 "2003-05-14T10:31:46Z")
> [@](#): > > How is it impossible for a large group men to sleep with a relatively small subset of promiscuous women who then transmit this disease to even more men? It isn’t, which probably makes it a good thing that I never said anything like that. You however seem to have finally grasped the point that on average men and women are equally promiscuous. I just love the double standard that allows you to say that minor promiscuity in a large number of men is culpable, but rampant and completely unfettered promiscuity on the part of smaller number of women is not in any way unacceptable or contributing to the spread of AIDS. But at least you have made your position clear. Thank you. ---
**Author:** ![Blake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a9a28c/32.png) [@Blake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blake)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2003, 10:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/superstition-is-the-enemy-of-all-mankind/174976/65 "2003-05-14T10:35:55Z")
[quote] How is it impossible for a large group men to sleep with a relatively small subset of promiscuous women who then transmit this disease to even more men?[/uote] Just to highlight the double standad, there are of course a number of women engaging in activity that transmits the disease to huge numbers of men. but that sort of behaviour is apparently acceptable and not in any way spreading the disease.:rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bosda_di_chi_of_tricor/32/16845_2.png) [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2003, 11:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/superstition-is-the-enemy-of-all-mankind/174976/66 "2003-05-14T11:45:54Z")
I Started This thread To Protest The Fact That Superstion/Religion Makes People Into Assholes. You Hijackers Are All Proving It. Fuck You. :mad: You are all using your beliefs to justify abusing your fellow Dopers. You ‘jackers forgot the kids entirely. And you forgot your own compassion. Fuck you. Fuck you for turning these kids’ suffering into a shoddy little game for your amusement! :mad: ---
**Author:** ![gobear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8dc957/32.png) [@gobear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gobear)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2003, 12:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/superstition-is-the-enemy-of-all-mankind/174976/67 "2003-05-14T12:31:36Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by kung fu lola \* > It’s a pleasure to have distinquished SDMBers like **Fenris** , **Mockingbird** and **Zenster** fighting ignorance and his cousin, arrogance, in this thread. \*\* I didn’t make the list? Proof positive I’m not in the Clique! ☹ **Bosda** , you may have started this thread, but that doesn’t make you the arbiter of post content. Moreover, your point “That Superstion/Religion Makes People Into Assholes” is not a fact, but an opinion, one that is being vigorously debated in the so-called hijacks. While religion can provide the justification for the wickedness you describe in the OP, it is not religion _per se_ that is the cause, but selfishness. ---
**Author:** ![Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bosda_di_chi_of_tricor/32/16845_2.png) [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2003, 1:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/superstition-is-the-enemy-of-all-mankind/174976/68 "2003-05-14T13:27:10Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by gobear \* > **Bosda** , you may have started this thread, but that doesn’t make you the arbiter of post content. Moreover, your point “That Superstion/Religion Makes People Into Assholes” is not a fact, but an opinion, one that is being vigorously debated in the so-called hijacks. While religion can provide the justification for the wickedness you describe in the OP, it is not religion _per se_ that is the cause, but selfishness. [list=1] [li]I never claimed to be the “arbiter of post content”. Straw man. Fuck you.[/li][li]My point is that the people who oppose religion are acting s famatically as the worst of the endorsers. Fuck you X2.[/li][li]The poor kis awful fate has been lost in the vile, egoistic, self-absorbed, so-called “debate”. **Fuck you all[SUP]3[/SUP]** [/li][/list=1] ---
**Author:** ![gobear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8dc957/32.png) [@gobear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gobear)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2003, 2:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/superstition-is-the-enemy-of-all-mankind/174976/69 "2003-05-14T14:03:48Z")
> [@](#): > > I never claimed to be the “arbiter of post content”. Straw man. Fuck you Straw man? Read your own quote: > [@](#): > > I Started This thread To Protest The Fact That Superstion/Religion Makes People Into Assholes. You Hijackers Are All Proving It. Fuck You. You are telling people that they may not devaiate from the topic you set? And why the indignation? This is a message board, you twerp. Nothing we say here has any effect the children who have been branded witches. Nothing. So stop your pious mewling about “won’t somebody think of the children.” I have always thought you to be a fool and you are really confirming my opinion, you self-important jackass. ---
**Author:** ![kung\_fu\_lola](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/f4b2a3/32.png) [@kung\_fu\_lola](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kung_fu_lola)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2003, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/superstition-is-the-enemy-of-all-mankind/174976/70 "2003-05-14T15:31:37Z")
I’m with **Bosda** here. I wish that the rest of you had taken the topics you were arguing about somewhere else so I would have felt comfortable rebutting you. As things are, I’ve posted minimally in the thread because I don’t feel okay about hijacking a thread so blatantly. Back on topic (and this may actually tie the hijack in), I don’t think that superstition is really the enemy in this case. Read between the lines of the article, and you can see that these families are facing changing economic circumstances (diamond prices crashing). They are using the superstition to justify their actions. These people want to survive, and their first instinct is to protect their own children and themselves. They don’t have the resources to care for charity cases like children orphaned by AIDS and/or strife. So they do something enormously convenient by accusing the children of witchcraft and washing their hands of them. Believing in witches (and whether all of them do is up for debate) isn’t making them cast out the children; fearing that they can’t feed their families is. So they “take care of their own” and fuck everyone else. It’s human nature, and unlike superstition, it can’t be resisted with logic and it will never go away. I think blaming the superstitions is the easy thing to do, because actually trying to change people’s hearts when they are desperate, or changing the economic situation for these people, or re-structuring their society, is just too hard. ---
**Author:** ![Zenster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/cdc98d/32.png) [@Zenster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zenster)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2003, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/superstition-is-the-enemy-of-all-mankind/174976/71 "2003-05-14T18:48:28Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Bosda Di’Chi of Tricor \* > [ul]3. The poor kids’ awful fate has been lost in the vile, egoistic, self-absorbed, so-called “debate”. **Fuck you all[SUP]3[/SUP]**[/ul] **Bos** , while I’m guilty of railing against the anti-spiritual posters in this thread, please note that I have also been directing my energies towards discussing the situation in Africa as well. I would hope that the topic I’ve imported has some merit in this thread. PS: I like that, “**Fuck you all[SUP]3[/SUP]**.” ---
**Author:** ![TVAA](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c57346/32.png) [@TVAA](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TVAA)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2003, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/superstition-is-the-enemy-of-all-mankind/174976/72 "2003-05-14T19:08:35Z")
Superstitions aren’t the enemy of _all_ mankind. They allow us to identify the stupid and gullible among us. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2003, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/superstition-is-the-enemy-of-all-mankind/174976/73 "2003-05-14T20:57:27Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Siege \* > \*\* > You distinguished doing magic from prayer. To their minds, the rituals they do are the exact same thing, with the same feeling and intent as the praying they did back in their Christian days. I’m a devout Christian myself, but I’ve been in rituals with them, and I have to agree. I know it looks silly and ridiculous, and Lord (or Goddess) knows there are what my friends call “fluffy bunny” pagans just as there are saccharine style “Jesus loves you” Christians. It’s just that I tend to avoid both! ::shudder:: > \*\* Well, but in either case, be it magic or prayer, then if the magic or prayer seeks tangible results, then that can be tested, right? ---
**Author:** ![Freyr](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/freyr/32/5763_2.png) [@Freyr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freyr)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2003, 7:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/superstition-is-the-enemy-of-all-mankind/174976/74 "2003-05-15T07:09:33Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by RexDart \* > \*\*Judging from the dozen or so Wiccans I’ve met, Wicca is just some trendy thing for disillusioned teenagers who pick it because it’s asthetically pleasing or because it complements their pre-existing beliefs in feminism or environmentalism. \*\* Well, that’s certainly scientific! You’ve _met_ (not interviewed or otherwise rigorously questioned) a dozen or so people who are Wiccan and therefore draw conclusions about the entire religion based on those random encounters. Why don’t you try reading something a bit more authorative on the subject? Try _Drawing Down the Moon_ (1986) by Margot Adler and _Triumph of the Moon_ (1998) by Ronald Hutton. Both are considered authoratative essays on Wicca and its history. :wally ---
**Author:** ![kung\_fu\_lola](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/f4b2a3/32.png) [@kung\_fu\_lola](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kung_fu_lola)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2003, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/superstition-is-the-enemy-of-all-mankind/174976/75 "2003-05-15T15:30:45Z")
Please, **Rex** , you who embraces the rational, you should really know better than that. I had classmates in high school who were Christian because they were lonely and came from broken homes and their only friends were Born-Agains, so they became Born-Again too. That doesn’t mean Christianity is a sham. I went to University with people who were Jewish for no reason other than their families are and it’s the way they were raised. This does not mean that Judaism is a sham either. People come by their faiths for many different reasons. How did you come by your lack of faith? ---
**Author:** ![RexDart](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/b77776/32.png) [@RexDart](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RexDart)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2003, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/superstition-is-the-enemy-of-all-mankind/174976/76 "2003-05-15T18:05:27Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by kung fu lola \* > \*\* > > People come by their faiths for many different reasons. How did you come by your lack of faith? \*\* (This will circle back to the OP) I arrived at athiesm after careful consideration of the world around us, causality, physics, all pointing towards the conclusions that there was no need for a god, and that a god even if one existed would be impotent to intervene in the world. I was deist for awhile, then agnostic, then finally saw no point in clinging to belief in some form of deity. Because I arrived at my beliefs through careful consideration, and came finally to rest upon beliefs that I don’t _like_ but I think are nonetheless true, I find it suspicious when someone appears to choose beliefs _because_ they like them or because they are aesthetically pleasing. Nobody _wants_ to be an athiest, we just end up realizing the truth of the proposition. But plenty of people want to embrace superstitions, and they do so because they like believing in them. Perhaps some think they’re true, but perhaps some would much rather believe in them because it’s useful and not think too much about it. And superstitions are convenient. Look at the OP, an example of people who use superstitions to make scapegoats out of other people during depressed economic times. If they let themselves realize that there aren’t any witches running around casting hexes on them to give them AIDS, they’d have to realize what a horrible thing they’ve done to those kids. Look at the Nazi racist mythology, there were scientists there who believed the Germans were descended from the people of Atlantis, and they believed that because it made it easier to find some wacky way to justify in their minds what they were doing. ---
**Author:** ![fatmac98](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3ec8ea/32.png) [@fatmac98](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fatmac98)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2003, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/superstition-is-the-enemy-of-all-mankind/174976/77 "2003-05-15T20:09:40Z")
**Bosda** , these people in Africa are scum. . . superstition is for the weak, and feebleminded. At what point do we throw all political correctness out the window and admit that a culture has failed? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/superstition-is-the-enemy-of-all-mankind/174976.md?page=3)