# Support the Troops my ass. The VA is horrid. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [April 21, 2013, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/support-the-troops-my-ass-the-va-is-horrid/656319 "2013-04-21T16:29:20Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Tom\_Scud](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f08c70/32.png) [@Tom\_Scud](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Scud)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2013, 2:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/support-the-troops-my-ass-the-va-is-horrid/656319/21 "2013-04-23T14:28:46Z")
Worth noting, the VA might suck but apparently it sucks less than the alternatives: [QUOTE=wikipedia] “Patients routinely rank the veterans system above the alternatives, according to the American Customer Satisfaction Index.” In 2008, the VHA got a satisfaction rating of 85 for inpatient treatment, compared with 77 for private hospitals. In the same report the VHA outpatient care scored 3 points higher than for private hospitals.[15] “As compared with the Medicare fee-for-service program, the VA performed significantly better on all 11 similar quality indicators for the period from 1997 through 1999. In 2000, the VA outperformed Medicare on 12 of 13 indicators.” [16] A study that compared VHA with commercial managed care systems in their treatment of diabetes patients found that in all seven measures of quality, the VHA provided better care.[17] A RAND Corporation study in 2004 concluded that the VHA outperforms all other sectors of American health care in 294 measures of quality; Patients from the VHA scored significantly higher for adjusted overall quality, chronic disease care, and preventive care, but not for acute care.[13] A 2009 Congressional Budget Office report on the VHA found that “the care provided to VHA patients compares favorably with that provided to non-VHA patients in terms of compliance with widely recognized clinical guidelines — particularly those that VHA has emphasized in its internal performance measurement system. Such research is complicated by the fact that most users of VHA’s services receive at least part of their care from outside providers.” [6] [(source)](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Veterans_Health_Administration) [/quote] I guess it’s possible that it’s deteriorated since 2008-9 for some reason (influx of new veterans? Some generation of veterans passing a critical age where they need more health care?). ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2013, 2:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/support-the-troops-my-ass-the-va-is-horrid/656319/22 "2013-04-23T14:34:08Z")
You are comparing apples and oranges. The VA provides excellent, unstinting care for those who, it has deemed to suffered a qualifying event (been injured or sustained some sort of compensable medical condition while in the services). The problem is that the VA is taking eleventy billion years to determine who _has_ suffered a qualifying event- and yes, the massive number of new veterans probably has much to do with that. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2013, 2:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/support-the-troops-my-ass-the-va-is-horrid/656319/23 "2013-04-23T14:49:32Z")
> [@Tamerlane](#): > > Seems like kind of a disconnect in these two statements. Insult then praise? > > Speaking as a civil servant, I tend to get my back up at the “lazy civil servant” meme. Not that they don’t exist mind you, but the casually tossed stereotype grates just like most stereotypes. You can’t imagine people have different jobs at the VA and some of them are the problem and some of them aren’t? The lower ranks are busy doing their job, they could stay there 24 hours a day but they wouldn’t have anything else to do. The lazy bastards are the ones sitting around making the system impossible to use and preventing anyone from doing anything about it. ---
**Author:** ![April\_R](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3da27b/32.png) [@April\_R](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/April_R)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2013, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/support-the-troops-my-ass-the-va-is-horrid/656319/24 "2013-04-23T14:57:19Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > They are not underfunded or understaffed. They are staffed with lazy civil servants, and even that is a result of mismanagement, the real culprit here. If anyone really cared about this the entire backlog could be cleared in a few months, and this would never be a problem again, but no one in charge really cares. I hate to agree, but as a former employee of the above mentioned organization in the OP, it’s true. There are too many civil servants who are past their probationary period who would have to shoot someone in the face to lose their job and they know it. They do the least amount of work and chronically leave early, come in late, go missing during breaks and lunch for several hours and run to the Union every time a superior even looks at them funny. They know how to work the system, and they know they won’t get fired or called out on their behavior. This breeds a culture of procrastination, feet dragging, and overall incompetence. It creates resentment in the employees who do care and have to carry their co-workers load, and an overt attitude of disgruntlement. (is that a word?) I hated working for the federal government and I am glad I got out when I did. ---
**Author:** ![Slypork](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9fc29f/32.png) [@Slypork](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slypork)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2013, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/support-the-troops-my-ass-the-va-is-horrid/656319/25 "2013-04-23T16:27:19Z")
> [@Vietvet1968](#): > > AnthonyElite, you ask if there’s anything us concerned civilians can do to help the cause! Contact all of your government representatives not just concerning this cause but any you deem necessary to contact them about. Each is a Public Servant, ( supposedly ) they work for us & they are elected by us.This includes from Senators & Congressman to those Public Servants on the local level. Just look around you & see how people that come together in numbers get things done. > Vietvet1968 > USMC 1965 Totally agree. My friends nephew was having problems getting things done by the VA. First contacted his state Representative who contacted his Congressman who contacted the VA who got everything straightened out. It’s a shame that our service people are forced to jump through such hoops to get the services and support they need, deserve and are entitled to. ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2013, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/support-the-troops-my-ass-the-va-is-horrid/656319/26 "2013-04-23T16:39:08Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > You can’t imagine people have different jobs at the VA and some of them are the problem and some of them aren’t? No, I can certainly imagine that. Ignore my earlier post, I was in a bit of a mood at that moment. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2013, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/support-the-troops-my-ass-the-va-is-horrid/656319/27 "2013-04-23T16:45:50Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > You can’t imagine people have different jobs at the VA and some of them are the problem and some of them aren’t? The lower ranks are busy doing their job, they could stay there 24 hours a day but they wouldn’t have anything else to do. The lazy bastards are the ones sitting around making the system impossible to use and preventing anyone from doing anything about it. Your post #4 did not differentiate between different people at the VA. You seemed to paint every single employee there with the same brush when you said: > [@](#): > > They are not underfunded or understaffed. They are staffed with lazy civil servants… Glad to know that you acknowledge that there are some good folks there being held back by incompetent administration. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2013, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/support-the-troops-my-ass-the-va-is-horrid/656319/28 "2013-04-23T17:06:20Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > Your post #4 did not differentiate between different people at the VA. You seemed to paint every single employee there with the same brush when you said: > [@Tamerlane](#): > > No, I can certainly imagine that. Ignore my earlier post, I was in a bit of a mood at that moment. I’m being too touchy too. My response should have noted that I didn’t intend to use ‘lazy civil servant’ as a meme. In this case it’s some civil servants who do happen to be lazy. ‘Lazy’ including uncaring, imcompetent, selfish, and other possible variant definitions. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Second\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@The\_Second\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Second_Stone)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2013, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/support-the-troops-my-ass-the-va-is-horrid/656319/29 "2013-04-23T19:43:23Z")
Support the troops is code for support the war. It’s not like they actually want to support the disabled troops for the rest of their lives, that would be including the public in the sacrifice of the troops, and the public doesn’t want to sacrifice. ---
**Author:** ![Musicat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/musicat/32/20189_2.png) [@Musicat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Musicat)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2013, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/support-the-troops-my-ass-the-va-is-horrid/656319/30 "2013-04-23T19:48:26Z")
You may have to wait a long time for the VA to make up its mind that you are entitled to benefits from a claim, but the good news is that if you are granted the claim, you will get a check for the entire amount you would have received starting at the first claim date. Or at least that’s what happened to me. It took 18 months. ---
**Author:** ![flatlined](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/eb9ed0/32.png) [@flatlined](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/flatlined)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2013, 2:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/support-the-troops-my-ass-the-va-is-horrid/656319/31 "2013-04-24T02:10:20Z")
To the OP, contact your local Disabled Veterans Association. Its a volunteer group, but they do know how to help. Maybe I have forgotten who you are, but if you are the rich guy…give them a couple of hundred as a donation. They will work harder for you. As to people who are thinking that people who work at the VA hospitals don’t care…you are wrong. The line workers really do care. Its the paperwork that stops the PTB from doing such things as helping a hospice patient with finding a home for a beloved cat as he dies. ---
**Author:** ![MsRobyn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/90ced4/32.png) [@MsRobyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MsRobyn)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2013, 2:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/support-the-troops-my-ass-the-va-is-horrid/656319/32 "2013-04-24T02:21:31Z")
Yes, MST stands for military sexual trauma. It’s not something I’m 100% comfortable discussing the specifics of, but I did go through it. I don’t use it as a go-to-the-head-of-the-line card, but the fact that it’s in my record makes accessing care easier. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2013, 3:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/support-the-troops-my-ass-the-va-is-horrid/656319/33 "2013-04-24T03:35:54Z")
Colour me confused. Do only combat veterans have the right to VA benefits? Beccause the size of the US military and naval forces did not increase much during these wars, about 4 or 5 new brigades nor SFAIK did service obligation. So the absolute number of claims should be about the same. ---
**Author:** ![I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/i_love_me_vol.i/32/521_2.png) [@I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/I_Love_Me_Vol.I)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2013, 5:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/support-the-troops-my-ass-the-va-is-horrid/656319/34 "2013-04-24T05:25:47Z")
> [@AK84](#): > > Colour me confused. Do only combat veterans have the right to VA benefits? Beccause the size of the US military and naval forces did not increase much during these wars, about 4 or 5 new brigades nor SFAIK did service obligation. So the absolute number of claims should be about the same. I’m not so sure that the amount of claims would remain the same. Seems like there would be a lot more since during wartime you’ll have lots of physical and mental trauma situations to address on top of the peacetime run-of-the-mill health service needs. Maybe I’m just not parsing your post correctly? ---
**Author:** ![MsRobyn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/90ced4/32.png) [@MsRobyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MsRobyn)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2013, 11:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/support-the-troops-my-ass-the-va-is-horrid/656319/35 "2013-04-24T11:38:04Z")
In this instance, “claim” does not necessarily include every veteran who served, just veterans who have a disability connected to their service. So **I Love Me, Vol I** was right in that claims for disability go up in wartime, even if the number of veterans stays the same. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2013, 1:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/support-the-troops-my-ass-the-va-is-horrid/656319/36 "2013-04-24T13:15:49Z")
> [@AK84](#): > > Colour me confused. Do only combat veterans have the right to VA benefits? Beccause the size of the US military and naval forces did not increase much during these wars, about 4 or 5 new brigades nor SFAIK did service obligation. So the absolute number of claims should be about the same. Everyone that doesn’t get dishonorably discharged gets health care, but only combat-wounded (or some other conditions that occur as a result of service) veterans are entitled to _disability_ benefits. ---
**Author:** ![RandMcnally](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/b782af/32.png) [@RandMcnally](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RandMcnally)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2013, 2:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/support-the-troops-my-ass-the-va-is-horrid/656319/37 "2013-04-24T14:29:57Z")
> [@flatlined](#): > > To the OP, contact your local Disabled Veterans Association. Its a volunteer group, but they do know how to help. Maybe I have forgotten who you are, but if you are the rich guy…give them a couple of hundred as a donation. They will work harder for you. Thanks. And you’ve must have confused me with someone else, unfortunately. I am not rich in the least bit. > [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Everyone that doesn’t get dishonorably discharged gets health care, but only combat-wounded (or some other conditions that occur as a result of service) veterans are entitled to _disability_ benefits. You do not get healthcare once you separate unless you deployed to Iraq or Afghanistan, then you get five years. And yeah, you get disability if you can prove a service connected injury. ---
**Author:** ![flatlined](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/eb9ed0/32.png) [@flatlined](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/flatlined)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2013, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/support-the-troops-my-ass-the-va-is-horrid/656319/38 "2013-04-24T19:24:35Z")
Sorry for the mistaken identity. I’m not as good at keeping track of posters as I should be. I stand by my advice, though. A friend of mine has severe mental problems and was not able to deal with the paperwork and red tape to get his disability payments set up. He’s not easy to deal with at the best of times, and when he gets frustrated…it gets bad. I dragged him to the DAV, told them his story and they were not only willing to help him, they were able to talk him down when he was so frustrated that he wanted to rip up all the paperwork and kick computers over while threatening violence. I really do believe that if not for the DAV, my friend would be living on the streets or dead. So, call them. What’s the worse they can say? ---
**Author:** ![Musicat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/musicat/32/20189_2.png) [@Musicat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Musicat)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2013, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/support-the-troops-my-ass-the-va-is-horrid/656319/39 "2013-04-24T20:58:49Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Everyone that doesn’t get dishonorably discharged gets health care,… I am not an expert, but I think vets with less than full service (20 yrs min) may be entitled to VA care, _but not free._ > [@](#): > > … but only combat-wounded (or some other conditions that occur as a result of service) veterans are entitled to _disability_ benefits. Just remove the “combat-wounded” part of your statement, which doesn’t add anything. Any injury received during active duty, if sufficiently debilitating (10% or more) can make the vet eligible for benefits and free medical coverage. ---
**Author:** ![RandMcnally](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/b782af/32.png) [@RandMcnally](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RandMcnally)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2013, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/support-the-troops-my-ass-the-va-is-horrid/656319/40 "2013-04-24T21:13:05Z")
> [@Musicat](#): > > I am not an expert, but I think vets with less than full service (20 yrs min) may be entitled to VA care, _but not free._ I mentioned this in my above post: if you don’t have 20 years in the only free healthcare you get is for five years and that’s only if you deployed to Afghanistan and/or Iraq. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/support-the-troops-my-ass-the-va-is-horrid/656319.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/support-the-troops-my-ass-the-va-is-horrid/656319.md?page=3)