# Support the troops - send injured soldiers back to Iraq! **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [March 12, 2007, 1:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/support-the-troops-send-injured-soldiers-back-to-iraq/395587 "2007-03-12T13:33:54Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 14\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Mr.Moto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2007, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/support-the-troops-send-injured-soldiers-back-to-iraq/395587/61 "2007-03-13T18:26:47Z")
See, here’s the thing. Everybody complains about the government. And the government earns our scorn, mostly. Something that big is bound to make mistakes, and something that impersonal is bound not to consider the specific interests of ordinary people like you or me or an E-5 in the military very much when carrying out policy. So yes, there are some complaints to be made. But for people like **RTFirefly** , those general complaints aren’t enough. Everything has to be pinned on the administration or the Republican congress somehow because they were _in charge_. And if the problem predated them, well, it doesn’t matter because they should have fixed it since. Nevermind that the same could be said about the previous administration as well. I’m not taking Clinton to task over this. In fact, I’m giving him due credit for fixing the VA. The problems with fixing military health care are systemic, and stem from a lack of resources in the BRAC era and bad decisions by the military itself. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2007, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/support-the-troops-send-injured-soldiers-back-to-iraq/395587/62 "2007-03-13T19:18:05Z")
[QUOTE=Mr. Moto] So yes, there are some complaints to be made. But for people like **RTFirefly** , those general complaints aren’t enough. Everything has to be pinned on the administration or the Republican congress somehow because they were _in charge_. And if the problem predated them, well, it doesn’t matter because they should have fixed it since. Nevermind that the same could be said about the previous administration as well. [/quote] That’s a very nice dodge. I’ve made specific, particular arguments concerning **why** I think the GOP should be specifically held accountable here. And you choose to respond with vacuous handwaving that nobody in particular is responsible, that anything as big as the government “is bound to make mistakes” so nobody in particular should be accountable for treating our wounded soldiers like shit. > [@](#): > > I’m not taking Clinton to task over this. In fact, I’m giving him due credit for fixing the VA. Wow, took you long enough. > [@](#): > > The problems with fixing military health care are systemic, and stem from a lack of resources in the BRAC era and bad decisions by the military itself. And yet again, you might consider my analogy a few posts back. Since you haven’t, despite my repeated calling of your attention to it, you obviously have no rebuttal to it. That pretty much says it, doesn’t it? ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Moto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2007, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/support-the-troops-send-injured-soldiers-back-to-iraq/395587/63 "2007-03-13T19:46:49Z")
Didn’t make much sense to me, frankly. A shooting war this big could have easily begun under Clinton as under Bush, and the problems in the military medical care system would have become obvious then as well. Or don’t you think Clinton was risking an escalation in the Persian Gulf when he struck Iraq during Operation Desert Fox? ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2007, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/support-the-troops-send-injured-soldiers-back-to-iraq/395587/64 "2007-03-13T20:29:12Z")
[QUOTE=Mr. Moto] Didn’t make much sense to me, frankly. [/quote] Seems pretty obvious to me. Could you point out the part you don’t understand, and I’ll skip any big words this time? > [@](#): > > A shooting war this big could have easily begun under Clinton as under Bush, and the problems in the military medical care system would have become obvious then as well. And then it would have been Clinton’s fault for not dealing with the problem, unless he tried and was blocked by the GOP Congress, of course. > [@](#): > > Or don’t you think Clinton was risking an escalation in the Persian Gulf when he struck Iraq during Operation Desert Fox? Not really. How, exactly, was Iraq supposed to strike back at us? And if not, why would we escalate on our own? ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2007, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/support-the-troops-send-injured-soldiers-back-to-iraq/395587/65 "2007-03-13T21:31:30Z")
The repubs were in charge when their genius Rummy said we fight with the army we have not the one we wish we had. They attacked Iraq. They could have waited until they were ready. Except every day it became more obvious there were no WMD. When they were arguing the stupid financial giveaway to finance companies called the Bankruptcy Bill ,the dems offered an amendment to allow soldiers who keep getting called back to active duty an exemption. The repubs rejected it along party lines. This war is particularly ugly with door to door hand combat and actually seeing who you are shooting. 35 % of the soldiers are coming back with immediate mental problems from the war. In time the percentage will grow. The repubs are in charge of VA hospitals and have cut funding. Who supports the troops. The ones who want them home raising families or the ones using and abusing them? ---
**Author:** ![DMC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dmc/32/18049_2.png) [@DMC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DMC)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2007, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/support-the-troops-send-injured-soldiers-back-to-iraq/395587/66 "2007-03-13T21:57:03Z")
[QUOTE=Mr. Moto] According to [Charity Navigator](http://www.charitynavigator.org/index.cfm/bay/search.summary/orgid/7585.htm), Fisher House spends only 2% of its budget on fundraising expenses and 2.4% on administrative expenses. All the rest goes right to programs. [/QUOTE] I saw that, but then I saw the leadership compensation (which is what I alluded to), and it didn’t add up. It still seems like a worthwhile organization, and further research on Operation Homefront shows them to be a bit too “preachy” for my tastes, so unless I find a good reason to change my mind, Fisher House will be on my list for this year. ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2007, 10:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/support-the-troops-send-injured-soldiers-back-to-iraq/395587/67 "2007-03-13T22:07:44Z")
[QUOTE=RTFirefly] Not really. How, exactly, was Iraq supposed to strike back at us? And if not, why would we escalate on our own? [/QUOTE] Obviously with its copious Weapons of Mass Destruction. Have you already forgotten Saddam’s Anthrax laden unmanned aircraft initiative? 😃 ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2007, 11:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/support-the-troops-send-injured-soldiers-back-to-iraq/395587/68 "2007-03-13T23:13:46Z")
[QUOTE=Squink] Obviously with its copious Weapons of Mass Destruction. Have you already forgotten Saddam’s Anthrax laden unmanned aircraft initiative? 😃 [/QUOTE] Do you mean an African unmanned aircraft, or a European unmanned aircraft? ---
**Author:** ![wring](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/838e76/32.png) [@wring](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wring)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2007, 11:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/support-the-troops-send-injured-soldiers-back-to-iraq/395587/69 "2007-03-13T23:16:33Z")
[QUOTE=kaylasdad99] Do you mean an African unmanned aircraft, or a European unmanned aircraft? [/QUOTE] I think it was African. Nigerian to be specific. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Lissa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/85f322/32.png) [@Lissa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lissa)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2007, 11:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/support-the-troops-send-injured-soldiers-back-to-iraq/395587/70 "2007-03-13T23:28:11Z")
[QUOTE=wring] I think it was African. Nigerian to be specific. 😉 [/QUOTE] There is no way that a Nigerian Swallow could carry a two pound bio-weapon. ---
**Author:** ![Revenant\_Threshold](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f1d935/32.png) [@Revenant\_Threshold](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revenant_Threshold)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2007, 11:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/support-the-troops-send-injured-soldiers-back-to-iraq/395587/71 "2007-03-13T23:28:58Z")
[QUOTE=Lissa] There is no way that a Nigerian Swallow could carry a two pound bio-weapon. [/QUOTE] What if it gripped it by the casing? ---
**Author:** ![Lissa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/85f322/32.png) [@Lissa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lissa)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2007, 11:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/support-the-troops-send-injured-soldiers-back-to-iraq/395587/72 "2007-03-13T23:34:48Z")
[QUOTE=Revenant Threshold] What if it gripped it by the casing? [/QUOTE] If they grip it by the casing and there are two of them, maybe… ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2007, 11:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/support-the-troops-send-injured-soldiers-back-to-iraq/395587/73 "2007-03-14T11:41:11Z")
[QUOTE=Mr. Moto] And I was careful to lay the blame on both parties for that, as I’m convinced that both share the blame for it. [/QUOTE] I’m not sure that you would be so eager to share the blame if the Democrats controlled the White House. One party has pretty much controlled Washington for six years and they ruled with an iron fist. Were conditions at Walter Reed a top priority for Clinton? Probably not. But then Clinton didn’t start a war leading to these high numbers of injuries. Blame should be shared only if both parties were equally negligent. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2007, 12:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/support-the-troops-send-injured-soldiers-back-to-iraq/395587/74 "2007-03-14T12:58:21Z")
[QUOTE=BobLibDem] Were conditions at Walter Reed a top priority for Clinton? Probably not. But then Clinton didn’t start a war leading to these high numbers of injuries. Blame should be shared only if both parties were equally negligent. [/QUOTE] Go easy on the poor boy. He’s still trying to figure out this challenging analogy of mine from post 55: > [@](#): > > If you’ve got a broken-down old car that you use to drive to the store and back every once in awhile, fixing it isn’t a high priority. But if your brother decides take it on a cross-country trip without fixing it, and it breaks down on the way, the failure to fix it is just as much your fault as his? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/support-the-troops-send-injured-soldiers-back-to-iraq/395587.md?page=3)