# Supporters of capital punishment: are beheadings an acceptable method? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [April 1, 2009, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/supporters-of-capital-punishment-are-beheadings-an-acceptable-method/491594 "2009-04-01T17:56:15Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Annie-Xmas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecc23a/32.png) [@Annie-Xmas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Annie-Xmas)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2009, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/supporters-of-capital-punishment-are-beheadings-an-acceptable-method/491594/41 "2009-04-03T21:15:23Z")
I firmly belief that the murderer should be killed in the exact same manner that the victims were. Preferably by the family/families of the victim(s). If smashing them, choking them and raping them was good enough for Bundy’s victims, it should be good enough for Bundy. Sit Timothy McVeigh in a shed and let him wait for a massive bomb to go off at an unannounced moment. Beat the hell out of Joel Steinbach and then leave him on the bathroom floor to die. ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2009, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/supporters-of-capital-punishment-are-beheadings-an-acceptable-method/491594/42 "2009-04-03T21:41:54Z")
Serious factual question: how painful is lethal injection? And if it’s painful, why? Don’t we have any drugs that’ll put you painlessly to sleep, and then you just don’t wake up? Method of execution should be chosen based on the goals of the executor. If it’s to be humane, you want something that is as painless as possible, and quite probably something that wouldn’t count as desecrating the corpse…which would seem to rule out beheading. And electrocution, for that matter. If it’s _deterrence_…I recommend death by slow-moving steamroller. While awake. Feet first. Widely televized. ---
**Author:** ![Jack\_Batty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jack_batty/32/3201_2.png) [@Jack\_Batty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Batty)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2009, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/supporters-of-capital-punishment-are-beheadings-an-acceptable-method/491594/43 "2009-04-03T22:33:06Z")
> [@Annie-Xmas](#): > > I firmly belief that the murderer should be killed in the exact same manner that the victims were. Preferably by the family/families of the victim(s). > > If smashing them, choking them and raping them was good enough for Bundy’s victims, it should be good enough for Bundy. Sit Timothy McVeigh in a shed and let him wait for a massive bomb to go off at an unannounced moment. Beat the hell out of Joel Steinbach and then leave him on the bathroom floor to die. Christ, I hope you’re not serious. If someone decapitated my mother, I’m sure I’d want him dead, but I wouldn’t want to cut his head off. I don’t want to cut anybody’s head off. Ever. I’m just funny that way. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2009, 12:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/supporters-of-capital-punishment-are-beheadings-an-acceptable-method/491594/44 "2009-04-06T12:07:32Z")
> [@begbert2](#): > > Serious factual question: how painful is lethal injection? Not particularly ([cite](http://people.howstuffworks.com/lethal-injection4.htm)). No more so than general anesthesia usually is. Certainly the anti-DP folks will [say otherwise](http://www.amnestyusa.org/death-penalty/lethal-injection/page.do?id=1101012), but they always will. ISTM that whatever methods would be humane for voluntary euthanasia would be humane for executions as well. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2009, 12:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/supporters-of-capital-punishment-are-beheadings-an-acceptable-method/491594/45 "2009-04-06T12:21:45Z")
> [@Clothahump](#): > > I personally think a .38 (or higher) round in the back of the head, right where the spinal cord joins in, would be the most painless death. Actually the trusty large-caliber-gun-in-the-mouth is the most reliable way to obliterate the brain stem, which is what we’re really going for in this case. ---
**Author:** ![don\_t\_ask](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e68b1a/32.png) [@don\_t\_ask](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/don_t_ask)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2009, 12:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/supporters-of-capital-punishment-are-beheadings-an-acceptable-method/491594/46 "2009-04-06T12:32:01Z")
So long as it is not a public spectacle I guess I’d go along with guillotining. ---
**Author:** ![Scumpup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce73a5/32.png) [@Scumpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scumpup)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2009, 12:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/supporters-of-capital-punishment-are-beheadings-an-acceptable-method/491594/47 "2009-04-06T12:47:10Z")
> [@Cosmic Relief](#): > > Actually the trusty large-caliber-gun-in-the-mouth is the most reliable way to obliterate the brain stem, which is what we’re really going for in this case. Large caliber isn’t necessary. The Soviets used the ballistically lackluster [7.62 x 38R cartridge fired from the M1895 revolver](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nagant_revolver) to execute many, many [thousands of prisoners](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Katyn_massacre). Execution by handgun is typically done at contact range. The damage done is greatly amplified by the high pressure gases that get blasted into the wound. If you google up some post mortem suicide pictures, you’ll see a lot of “exploded heads” that graphically illustrate my point. ---
**Author:** ![Scumpup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce73a5/32.png) [@Scumpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scumpup)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2009, 12:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/supporters-of-capital-punishment-are-beheadings-an-acceptable-method/491594/48 "2009-04-06T12:55:37Z")
Note [here](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vasili_Blokhin) that Stalin’s chief executioner favored the lowly .25 acp. ---
**Author:** ![CutterJohn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/91b2a8/32.png) [@CutterJohn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CutterJohn)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2009, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/supporters-of-capital-punishment-are-beheadings-an-acceptable-method/491594/49 "2009-04-06T15:24:59Z")
I wouldn’t have an issue with a guillotine. Especially if the condemned mans head rolled down a hill into one of 5 numbered baskets for betting purposes. Or better yet, head plinko! Joking aside, while it is visually a rather gruesome form of execution, it is imo, still one of the best. Its virtually painless, and even if not, the condemned won’t feel more than a few seconds of pain… Rapid loss of blood pressure like that to the head has immediate results, as anyone who has ever stood up too quickly can attest to, and its extremely obvious if things don’t go right. With such a simple mechanism though, it is highly unlikely to fail with todays manufacturing capabilities. I bet they’d never use it though, for one reason… Someone is going to have to pick the head up. Try getting volunteers for that. ---
**Author:** ![buttonjockey308](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bcef8e/32.png) [@buttonjockey308](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/buttonjockey308)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2009, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/supporters-of-capital-punishment-are-beheadings-an-acceptable-method/491594/50 "2009-04-06T15:43:50Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > Killing a man is a gruesome thing. If you can’t deal with it, don’t do it. > > Myself, I’m ambivalent on the death penalty, but I’m all for the “classic” methods. They’re more honest. I especially loathe lethal injection - people should be killed by killers, not doctors. As a pro death penalty person, I agree with this the most. I don’t believe in making state sanctioned killing ‘pretty’ for the cameras. Most times, the person being executed has done something horrible enough to be worthy of an equally ugly end. As far as the OP, I’m ok regarding beheadings, as long as they’re not done with a scimitar or sandwich knife ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2009, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/supporters-of-capital-punishment-are-beheadings-an-acceptable-method/491594/51 "2009-04-07T17:58:31Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > OK, color me morbidly fascinated : why would head crunching be more painless than straight decapitation ? I would think the brain mulch would still get some blood flowing into it (hence the chance for basic consciousness and functions to last longer), the pain bearing nerves would still be in there (although crunched up, making them doubly painful)… Couple of things - [ul][li]There are no pain nerves in the brain - odd but true, the seat of all sensation is itself numb to sensation.[_]The head crunching I am thinking of is a 500 lb. weight being dropped onto the skull from forty feet up. Thus the pressure alone would disallow any blood flowing into the brain - it would all be squirted out in a tenth of a second or so[_]Such a crushing would immediately destroy the brain’s ability to transmit signals to the pain centers, and to maintain consciousness.[/ul]Destroying the brain faster than it can react to the stimulus of its own destruction is as close as can be achieved to instant, painless death. [/li] Decapitation preserves the integrity of the brain for much longer - until it shuts down from lack of blood pressure, upon being disconnected from the pumping heart. I am guessing it would produce unconsciousness about as quickly as a sleeper hold would do. On numerous occasions, I have both been the subject and the applicant of sleeper holds such as this, and I can attest that the process is absolutely painless, and not particularly unpleasant. There would be some pain from the neck being severed, but a hard, clean cut such as that produced by the angled blade of the guillotine would probably not hurt all that much quickly enough to be a major concern. Even if the impact of the blade did not produce unconsciousness in and of itself, as a rabbit punch can do. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2009, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/supporters-of-capital-punishment-are-beheadings-an-acceptable-method/491594/52 "2009-04-07T18:18:48Z")
What is the goal of using beheading as execution? What is accomplished by that method that is not accomplished equally well or better by other methods, possibly other methods already in use? ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2009, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/supporters-of-capital-punishment-are-beheadings-an-acceptable-method/491594/53 "2009-04-07T18:40:08Z")
> [@begbert2](#): > > What is the goal of using beheading as execution? What is accomplished by that method that is not accomplished equally well or better by other methods, possibly other methods already in use? I assumed that quick, relatively painless death was the goal. It is nearly as fast, and somewhat more certain that, say, lethal injection. Drug abusing convicts may have so many collapsed veins as to make starting a good IV difficult. OTOH, decapitation is rather messy, which is often a consideration, however illogically. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2009, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/supporters-of-capital-punishment-are-beheadings-an-acceptable-method/491594/54 "2009-04-07T18:59:52Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > I assumed that quick, relatively painless death was the goal. It is nearly as fast, and somewhat more certain that, say, lethal injection. Drug abusing convicts may have so many collapsed veins as to make starting a good IV difficult. OTOH, decapitation is rather messy, which is often a consideration, however illogically. > > Regards, > Shodan So you’re not supposing that the drama of a beheading is at least a supporting consideration? 'Cause I suspect that it’s a _primary_ justification, in anybody who actually supports the idea. Sure, it’s probably instant and painless (though I’m not certain it’s [_certain_](http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/1172/does-the-head-remain-briefly-conscious-after-decapitation)), but come on, isn’t the _real_ reason that we want to see the rotter’s head roll? ---
**Author:** ![Clothahump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/51bf81/32.png) [@Clothahump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Clothahump)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2009, 12:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/supporters-of-capital-punishment-are-beheadings-an-acceptable-method/491594/55 "2009-04-08T12:38:03Z")
> [@begbert2](#): > > If it’s _deterrence_…I recommend death by slow-moving steamroller. While awake. Feet first. Widely televized. Televised, yes - no matter what the method. I like the one about nailing the scrotum to a log, then setting the other end of the log on fire. If they don’t burn to death, they bleed to death after the jerk to get away from the flames. ---
**Author:** ![gytalf2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/ac91a4/32.png) [@gytalf2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gytalf2000)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2009, 12:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/supporters-of-capital-punishment-are-beheadings-an-acceptable-method/491594/56 "2009-04-08T12:38:28Z")
Regarding decapitation – I seem to recall that European royalty, in the “pre-guillotine” era, preferred getting beheaded via sword rather than the axe. Why would this be so? (Assuming that this is an accurate memory…) ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2009, 12:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/supporters-of-capital-punishment-are-beheadings-an-acceptable-method/491594/57 "2009-04-08T12:54:34Z")
> [@begbert2](#): > > So you’re not supposing that the drama of a beheading is at least a supporting consideration? 'Cause I suspect that it’s a _primary_ justification, in anybody who actually supports the idea. Sure, it’s probably instant and painless (though I’m not certain it’s [_certain_](http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/1172/does-the-head-remain-briefly-conscious-after-decapitation)), but come on, isn’t the _real_ reason that we want to see the rotter’s head roll? No, pretty much the opposite, which is why I mentioned the messiness a couple of times. I am assuming that decapitation would be done in private, as lethal injection is done now. If you are arguing in favor of public executions, that is a different thread. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Scumpup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce73a5/32.png) [@Scumpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scumpup)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2009, 1:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/supporters-of-capital-punishment-are-beheadings-an-acceptable-method/491594/58 "2009-04-08T13:08:48Z")
> [@gytalf2000](#): > > Regarding decapitation – I seem to recall that European royalty, in the “pre-guillotine” era, preferred getting beheaded via sword rather than the axe. Why would this be so? (Assuming that this is an accurate memory…) As I understand this, it was partially because the sword was the weapon of nobility. As a martial class, they preferred to die by the weapon symbolizing their standing. I’ve also heard that the sword was sharper and made for a cleaner cut and less painful death. Why that should be the case, I don’t know. One can sharpen an axe, after all. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Moto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2009, 1:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/supporters-of-capital-punishment-are-beheadings-an-acceptable-method/491594/59 "2009-04-08T13:37:00Z")
> [@manila](#): > > Who else read that as Lapdancer?:eek: No - Laplander. Like [this.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Sofia_Jannok_20070621_Centre_Culturel_Suedois_5.jpg) ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2009, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/supporters-of-capital-punishment-are-beheadings-an-acceptable-method/491594/60 "2009-04-08T22:22:55Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > No, pretty much the opposite, which is why I mentioned the messiness a couple of times. > > I am assuming that decapitation would be done in private, as lethal injection is done now. If you are arguing in favor of public executions, that is a different thread. > > Regards, > Shodan How odd. I still think you’re in the minority. (And I think that this is a fine thread to discuss public -or at least, publicly viewable by indirect means- executions.) Do you suppose that beheadings are an optimal method to execute people painlessly? I would thing there has to be _some_ kind of gas which will knock you out and kill you painlessly, _without_ the mess. (We might be able to find a delivery method that avoids the stigma of the term ‘gas chamber’, even.) Do you think that, if such alternatives exist, that execution by beheading remains a favorable option? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/supporters-of-capital-punishment-are-beheadings-an-acceptable-method/491594.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/supporters-of-capital-punishment-are-beheadings-an-acceptable-method/491594.md?page=4)