# Supporting Floyd and BLM while opposing violence **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [June 1, 2020, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/supporting-floyd-and-blm-while-opposing-violence/854860 "2020-06-01T17:34:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2020, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/supporting-floyd-and-blm-while-opposing-violence/854860/1 "2020-06-01T17:34:49Z")
I am seeing Facebook memes/posts: MLK quotes “A riot is the language of the unheard” and memes: “White people: Can’t black people protest peacefully? (Image of Kaepernick kneeling) NOT LIKE THAT!” The consensus appears to be that peaceful protest is ineffective and that only violence can truly make a difference. The public can plug its ears as long as the protests are nonviolent. At the same time, though…property owners, shops, etc. have their rights, too. They have a perfectly legit and reasonable self interest in seeing to it that they don’t get burned or destroyed. Nor were they responsible in any way for what happened to George Floyd. ISTM that many people on social media who speak out against the riots are now being assumed to somehow be against Floyd or BLM, as if it is a dichotomy. If the protesters were going after police departments, that would be logical, but they are largely going after stores and shops, and thus trodden on other people’s rights in the process. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2020, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/supporting-floyd-and-blm-while-opposing-violence/854860/2 "2020-06-01T18:00:31Z")
For clarification, my objection isn’t the violence, it’s the targets they’re going after. Go after the police responsible, not stores and shops who had absolutely zilch to do with Floyd. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2020, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/supporting-floyd-and-blm-while-opposing-violence/854860/3 "2020-06-01T18:32:53Z")
But that’s not the protesters. That’s the looters. Those who loot are doing wrong. The vast majority of protesters are not looters and not violent. With regards to the generalized category of civil unrest – MLK Jr.'s point is that breaking the rules is the only option left when people have exhausted all the behaviors within the rules without sufficient progress. There’s no conflict in opposing looting and opposing the mistreatment of Floyd and other black people by law enforcement. But there is a conflict (and factual error) in blaming the looting on protesters as a whole, or BLM, or similar. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2020, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/supporting-floyd-and-blm-while-opposing-violence/854860/4 "2020-06-01T18:33:19Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > For clarification, my objection isn’t the violence, it’s the targets they’re going after. > > Go after the police responsible, not stores and shops who had absolutely zilch to do with Floyd. Why don’t you go ask the white people who are attacking stores and looting why black people don’t protest peacefully? ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2020, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/supporting-floyd-and-blm-while-opposing-violence/854860/5 "2020-06-01T18:36:44Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > I am seeing Facebook memes/posts: MLK quotes “A riot is the language of the unheard” and memes: “White people: Can’t black people protest peacefully? (Image of Kaepernick kneeling) NOT LIKE THAT!” There is now evidence that the looting started when a WHITE policeman from St. Paul, wearing an attempt at disguise, coldly broke several store windows and then walked away. Did he do this hoping to start looting, knowing that some of the public would then blame blacks instead of blaming those who killed a black? Did ALL the black protestors engage in looting? If it’s wrong to blame those store-owners who didn’t actively encourage racism by the police for the behavior of those citizens who DID encourage racism and brutality, is it also wrong to blame blacks who did NOT engage in looting for the actions of protestors who DID? Reflect on these questions. Then you will want to revise your OP. ---
**Author:** ![Omar\_Little](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omar_little/32/269_2.png) [@Omar\_Little](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omar_Little)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2020, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/supporting-floyd-and-blm-while-opposing-violence/854860/6 "2020-06-01T18:39:32Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > Go after the police responsible Man those four guys get around. They are being chased down in every major city in the US, and overseas. ---
**Author:** ![Omar\_Little](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omar_little/32/269_2.png) [@Omar\_Little](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omar_Little)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2020, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/supporting-floyd-and-blm-while-opposing-violence/854860/7 "2020-06-01T18:48:05Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > There is now **evidence** that the looting started when a WHITE policeman from St. Paul, wearing an attempt at disguise, coldly broke several store windows and then walked away. [![]( " - YouTube") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4vurPRZbLvc) Please share this **evidence** , and please do not posts conspiracy theories, speculation, wild-ass guesses. ---
**Author:** ![ITR\_champion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/c67d28/32.png) [@ITR\_champion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ITR_champion)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2020, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/supporting-floyd-and-blm-while-opposing-violence/854860/8 "2020-06-01T18:49:08Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > At the same time, though…property owners, shops, etc. have their rights, too. They have a perfectly legit and reasonable self interest in seeing to it that they don’t get burned or destroyed. Nor were they responsible in any way for what happened to George Floyd. You know who else isn’t in any way responsible for what happened to George Floyd? Police officers and authorities in any place other than Minneapolis and possibly in the state chain of command. In my former hometown of Fargo, [protesters threw rocks at the police, injuring four, and also burned cars and dumpsters and violently trashed a number of small businesses](https://www.kvrr.com/2020/05/31/public-officials-community-leaders-respond-to-fargo-riots/). Neither the property destruction nor the assaults on police can have any possible connection to the killing of George Floyd. Similar things have happened in places like Salt Lake City and Fayetteville, NC, which haven’t had any recent murders by police as far as I know. It’s all so senseless. ---
**Author:** ![Hampshire](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hampshire/32/4887_2.png) [@Hampshire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hampshire)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2020, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/supporting-floyd-and-blm-while-opposing-violence/854860/9 "2020-06-01T19:19:06Z")
This seems to be a growing story that I think a lot of our local reporters (Minneapolis) are trying to get to the bottom of right now. That the property damage window breaking and fires are being started by organized non-local instigators. People had witnessed a whole lot of outsiders appearing out of nowhere. Cars with out of states plates suddenly parked in their neighborhoods the nights of the riots. Lots or arrests being made of out-of-state people. The locals sort of caught wind of it on Saturday night and while peacefully protesting were becoming more vigilant against these instigators immediately shutting down their attempts and turning them into authorities. ---
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2020, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/supporting-floyd-and-blm-while-opposing-violence/854860/10 "2020-06-01T19:28:37Z")
> [@ITR\_champion](#): > > You know who else isn’t in any way responsible for what happened to George Floyd? Police officers and authorities in any place other than Minneapolis and possibly in the state chain of command. > > In my former hometown of Fargo, [protesters threw rocks at the police, injuring four, and also burned cars and dumpsters and violently trashed a number of small businesses](https://www.kvrr.com/2020/05/31/public-officials-community-leaders-respond-to-fargo-riots/). Neither the property destruction nor the assaults on police can have any possible connection to the killing of George Floyd. Similar things have happened in places like Salt Lake City and Fayetteville, NC, which haven’t had any recent murders by police as far as I know. It’s all so senseless. This is absolutely correct. In the history of the United States, only one black person has ever been mistreated by the police, and that’s George Floyd. No other black people have ever been mistreated, so using Floyd as the catalyst to a broader protest against police behavior makes no sense at all! Wait, that’s not true at all… ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2020, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/supporting-floyd-and-blm-while-opposing-violence/854860/11 "2020-06-01T19:35:17Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > For clarification, my objection isn’t the violence, it’s the targets they’re going after. > > Go after the police responsible, not stores and shops who had absolutely zilch to do with Floyd. Which police are responsible? 😕 Even in a bad force only a minority are bad, violent or racist cops. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2020, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/supporting-floyd-and-blm-while-opposing-violence/854860/12 "2020-06-01T19:38:11Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > There is now evidence that the looting started when a WHITE policeman from St. Paul, wearing an attempt at disguise, coldly broke several store windows and then walked away. … cite? You mean the guy in the gas mask? So far, no one knows who he is. He looks like the normal Black Block anarchist. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2020, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/supporting-floyd-and-blm-while-opposing-violence/854860/13 "2020-06-01T19:42:44Z")
> [@RitterSport](#): > > This is absolutely correct. In the history of the United States, only one black person has ever been mistreated by the police, and that’s George Floyd. No other black people have ever been mistreated, so using Floyd as the catalyst to a broader protest against police behavior makes no sense at all! > > Wait, that’s not true at all… Sure, plenty have been. But the point also is- that only a tiny minority of police do that sort of shit. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2020, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/supporting-floyd-and-blm-while-opposing-violence/854860/14 "2020-06-01T19:48:43Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Sure, plenty have been. But the point also is- that only a tiny minority of police do that sort of shit. I would agree only a tiny minority of cops have actually killed a black person. Not for a moment do I think only a tiny minority have mistreated black people. It’s quite common. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2020, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/supporting-floyd-and-blm-while-opposing-violence/854860/15 "2020-06-01T19:49:42Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Which police are responsible? 😕 Even in a bad force only a minority are bad, violent or racist cops. Sure, but going after each officer in a surgical manner isn’t possible. But at least protesting against police departments as an entity makes far more sense than going after stores or businesses. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2020, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/supporting-floyd-and-blm-while-opposing-violence/854860/16 "2020-06-01T19:54:58Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Which police are responsible? 😕 Even in a bad force only a minority are bad, violent or racist cops. Hmm…just spitballing here, but maybe the cops who stood around watching as Floyd got murdered? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2020, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/supporting-floyd-and-blm-while-opposing-violence/854860/17 "2020-06-01T20:14:08Z")
[http://www.apnorc.org/projects/Pages/HTML%20Reports/law-enforcement-and-violence-the-divide-between-black-and-white-americans0803-9759.aspx](http://www.apnorc.org/projects/Pages/HTML%20Reports/law-enforcement-and-violence-the-divide-between-black-and-white-americans0803-9759.aspx) 50% of black people report that they, personally, have been mistreated by law enforcement. Think about that – half of all black Americans. Does anyone really think that it’s only a tiny minority of police officers who mistreated tens of millions of black people? ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2020, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/supporting-floyd-and-blm-while-opposing-violence/854860/18 "2020-06-01T20:34:46Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > Hmm…just spitballing here, but maybe the cops who stood around watching as Floyd got murdered? So, four of the officers were fired. A few were supporting from two blocks away- could they see clearly what was going on? which cops who were there did wrong- other than the ones being charged or fired? ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2020, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/supporting-floyd-and-blm-while-opposing-violence/854860/19 "2020-06-01T20:42:56Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > [What Americans think about the Economy - AP-NORC](http://www.apnorc.org/projects/Pages/HTML%20Reports/law-enforcement-and-violence-the-divide-between-black-and-white-americans0803-9759.aspx) > > 50% of black people report that they, personally, have been mistreated by law enforcement. Think about that – half of all black Americans. Does anyone really think that it’s only a tiny minority of police officers who mistreated tens of millions of black people? I have been mistreated by a cop. Most white people have also. But there is a difference between a rude cops who gives you a undeserved ticket vs ones who kneel on a dudes throat until he is dead. What that sez is _“Half of black Americans report being treated unfairly by police because of their race, and their views of law enforcement are shaped by this experience.”_. I have been treated unfairly also- but likely not due to my race, due to the fact I was a smartass kid. “Being treated unfair” is so vague as to be meaningless, and I would suspect that if you are a minority, and you are being treated unfairly, you would assume it is due to your races, rather than you being a smartass or the cop having a bad day or whatever. I dont know nor have I ever met a racist cop. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2020, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/supporting-floyd-and-blm-while-opposing-violence/854860/20 "2020-06-01T20:56:27Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > I have been mistreated by a cop. Most white people have also. But there is a difference between a rude cops who gives you a undeserved ticket vs ones who kneel on a dudes throat until he is dead. > > What that sez is _“Half of black Americans report being treated unfairly by police because of their race, and their views of law enforcement are shaped by this experience.”_. I have been treated unfairly also- but likely not due to my race, due to the fact I was a smartass kid. “Being treated unfair” is so vague as to be meaningless, and I would suspect that if you are a minority, and you are being treated unfairly, you would assume it is due to your races, rather than you being a smartass or the cop having a bad day or whatever. > > I dont know nor have I ever met a racist cop. Look back on history – black people were always right about the mistreatment of black people. Literally always, broadly speaking. Black people understood slavery; white people didn’t. Black people understood Jim Crow and segregation; white people didn’t. Black people understood Civil Rights; white people didn’t. Why on Earth would you think that black people just happen to have picked now to be wrong about their mistreatment – for literally the first time in American history? And why on Earth would you think you know better than they do? [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/supporting-floyd-and-blm-while-opposing-violence/854860.md?page=2)