# Supposably - have mispronounced words become standard? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [February 17, 2015, 12:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/supposably-have-mispronounced-words-become-standard/712875 "2015-02-17T00:36:45Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Senegoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senegoid/32/6606_2.png) [@Senegoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Senegoid)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2015, 3:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/supposably-have-mispronounced-words-become-standard/712875/21 "2015-02-17T03:14:55Z")
Curiouser and curiouser! But here’s my opinion: People who say “supposably” are just morons with rocks where their brains belong. As evidence of this, I give you a certain former landlord I had about 15 years ago. ---
**Author:** ![vomit\_comet](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/73ab20/32.png) [@vomit\_comet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vomit_comet)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2015, 3:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/supposably-have-mispronounced-words-become-standard/712875/22 "2015-02-17T03:27:02Z")
> [@jz78817](#): > > usage defines a language. a dictionary is just a catalog of usage. And the internet is a catalog of abusage. ---
**Author:** ![vomit\_comet](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/73ab20/32.png) [@vomit\_comet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vomit_comet)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2015, 3:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/supposably-have-mispronounced-words-become-standard/712875/23 "2015-02-17T03:36:35Z")
> [@Senegoid](#): > > Curiouser and curiouser! > > But here’s my opinion: People who say “supposably” are just morons with rocks where their brains belong. As evidence of this, I give you a certain former landlord I had about 15 years ago. We live in a society where both teams get an award for playing a game of soccer. If the idiots can’t learn and remember how to spell a word they will invent new ones and be happy as pigs in shit. Beware the current generation (X,Y,Z) whatever it is called for when they are ruling the world and don’t get their way and their X-box is broken all hell will break loose. ---
**Author:** ![Ambivalid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a5b964/32.png) [@Ambivalid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ambivalid)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2015, 3:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/supposably-have-mispronounced-words-become-standard/712875/24 "2015-02-17T03:52:36Z")
> [@Senegoid](#): > > Curiouser and curiouser! > > But here’s my opinion: People who say “supposably” are just morons with rocks where their brains belong. As evidence of this, I give you a certain former landlord I had about 15 years ago. > [@vomit\_comet](#): > > We live in a society where both teams get an award for playing a game of soccer. If the idiots can’t learn and remember how to spell a word they will invent new ones and be happy as pigs in shit. Beware the current generation (X,Y,Z) whatever it is called for when they are ruling the world and don’t get their way and their X-box is broken all hell will break loose. You both are just standing in the way. Move or be run over by progress!! ---
**Author:** ![california\_jobcase](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9d8465/32.png) [@california\_jobcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/california_jobcase)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2015, 4:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/supposably-have-mispronounced-words-become-standard/712875/25 "2015-02-17T04:34:01Z")
Many people mispronounce data (date-uh) as dat-uh. It’s catching on, unfortunately. I’m only 54, and I have read dictionaries in which the only pronunciation of protein is pro-tee-in. No one says pro-tee-in any more. When I was in elementary school, the only pronunciation of kiln in the dictionary was kill. Yep, pronunciations change. ---
**Author:** ![gigi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a587f6/32.png) [@gigi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gigi)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2015, 4:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/supposably-have-mispronounced-words-become-standard/712875/26 "2015-02-17T04:38:13Z")
> [@Ambivalid](#): > > Kum-ftur-ble. That is how it is pronounced with three syllables. > > Kum-fort-ah-ble. That is how it is pronounced with four syllables. > > I say it the first way, as do most people IME. I used to say it the first way until I realized it’s like saying Favre as Farve. Now I make it a point to pronounce it as it is spelled. ---
**Author:** ![guizot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guizot/32/3636_2.png) [@guizot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/guizot)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2015, 5:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/supposably-have-mispronounced-words-become-standard/712875/27 "2015-02-17T05:48:02Z")
> [@jz78817](#): > > I mean, at one point your post could have been written like this: > > \*"For about 10 years I’ve been telling my kids that there is no ſuch word as “coſted.” > > “It coſted 5 dollars” my 17 year old daughter will ſay. I’m ſure ſhe muſt hear this from other kids." > > Apart from that, ſhe’s completely normal."\* That was just about typology (and hand script). That character wasn’t dropped because of any change in pronunciation. That said, the particular case of _costed_, as **Leaffan** ’s daughter says, is not necessarily so far-fetched. We already have _burnt_ vs. _burned_, _dreamt_ vs. _dreamed_, etc. Usually, however, the irregular form is the newer verison. AS **Kamino Neko** points out, these changes are often originally phonological, and they frequently involve consonant clusters that are motor-physically more challenging than usual in English. As a case in point, [**sjc** points out on this board](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8464502&postcount=4) in a long ago discussion of the original pronunciation of _ask_ (which often was pronounced in Middle English as /aks/): [QUOTE=sjc] I’m not certain if ‘ask’ or ‘aks’ came first, but the ‘aks’ pronunciation can easily explained as a simplification of a difficult consonant cluster through metathesis. That is to say, the ‘ks’ consonant cluster is difficult to pronounce (most languages find this one hard) and in order to make it easier the two sounds are transposed (technical term: metathesis\*). Sound changes to make pronunciation easier are pretty common in every language. ‘Aks’ just happens to not be the Standard English pronunciation of today, though it might have been in the past. [/quote] ---
**Author:** ![guizot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guizot/32/3636_2.png) [@guizot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/guizot)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2015, 6:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/supposably-have-mispronounced-words-become-standard/712875/28 "2015-02-17T06:10:15Z")
> [@Ornery\_Bob](#): > > . . . I’m thinking more of something where the unwashed masses have misheard a word and made it their own. Just to be clear, metathesis is not simply a result of “mishearing” a word. It’s usually a result of hearing a word. I’m sure that quite a few of those posting here, _ **when they’re speaking unselfconsciously** _, pronounce _prescription_ as /pərˈskrɪpʃ(ə)n/, even though they might deny it when asked. But that’s not from “mishearing.” It’s because many other people say it that way. ---
**Author:** ![vomit\_comet](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/73ab20/32.png) [@vomit\_comet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vomit_comet)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2015, 6:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/supposably-have-mispronounced-words-become-standard/712875/29 "2015-02-17T06:59:33Z")
I used to quietly, very quietly… just in my head, in fact, mock my dad for saying “vegetables” with four very distinct syllables when everyone else said it with three. ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2015, 7:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/supposably-have-mispronounced-words-become-standard/712875/30 "2015-02-17T07:31:27Z")
Surely the canonical example is butterfly / flutter-by? ---
**Author:** ![panache45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/panache45/32/64_2.png) [@panache45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panache45)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2015, 7:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/supposably-have-mispronounced-words-become-standard/712875/31 "2015-02-17T07:54:05Z")
I’ve been noticing something that I think is rapidly becoming standard: dropping the final consonant of words, or contracting endings with multiple consonants. An example of the first is when Charlie Rose pronounces world as “worl” or Egypt as “Egyp.” An example of the second was a recent documentary about the role of forests. The usually well-spoken, educated scientist narrator had no trouble pronouncing the singular “forest,” but when using the plural, it consistently came out as “foress.” I had to work very hard to prevent this from ruining my enjoyment of the program. I’m hearing both of these phenomena from somewhat Southern or ethnic (Black) speakers, but it sounds like the “standard” is moving in that direction. And don’t get me started on “sinators” and “dimocrats.” So far, only the pronunciations are affected, but I won’t be surprised if some people have already altered the spelling. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2015, 8:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/supposably-have-mispronounced-words-become-standard/712875/32 "2015-02-17T08:17:50Z")
> [@panache45](#): > > I’ve been noticing something that I think is rapidly becoming standard: dropping the final consonant of words, or contracting endings with multiple consonants. An example of the first is when Charlie Rose pronounces world as “worl” or Egypt as “Egyp.” An example of the second was a recent documentary about the role of forests. The usually well-spoken, educated scientist narrator had no trouble pronouncing the singular “forest,” but when using the plural, it consistently came out as “foress.” I had to work very hard to prevent this from ruining my enjoyment of the program. You’re basically describing French.\* Nes-pa\*? ---
**Author:** ![WotNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e19b73/32.png) [@WotNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WotNot)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2015, 8:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/supposably-have-mispronounced-words-become-standard/712875/33 "2015-02-17T08:56:18Z")
> [@Quartz](#): > > Surely the canonical example is butterfly / flutter-by? [Nope. It’s always been butterfly.](http://www.grammarphobia.com/blog/2008/02/a-swallowtail-by-any-other-name.html) ---
**Author:** ![Wendell\_Wagner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/8491ac/32.png) [@Wendell\_Wagner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wendell_Wagner)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2015, 8:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/supposably-have-mispronounced-words-become-standard/712875/34 "2015-02-17T08:59:52Z")
Ambivalid writes: \> So there is no such thing as a spelling mistake or mispronunciation to you then? \> It’s all just the English language, evolving? There are two sets of things that we mean when we talk about the English language. (The same true of most, and probably all, languages.) There is each set of rules within each person’s head at a given time. This is their best attempt to understand how other English speakers talk (and presumably write), and it will be different for each person and even different at any given time. There are always certain ways in which any given person at any given time has reinterpreted what they have heard other people say or write to construct a different pronunciation, grammatical expression, or item of vocabulary. In other words, they have made a mistake according to what you mean. Changes in languages over time happen when enough people change the way that they speak or write. The second thing the English language means is a set of rules that language arbitrators like English teachers, copy editors, accent coaches, etc. have declared to be the way English is now spoken and written “properly.” There is nothing wrong with this, and it may be necessary to have a “standard” language at any moment, but that doesn’t mean that the language will stop evolving. It’s useful for language arbitrators to understand how language in the first sense really operates though. Some language arbitrators have attempted to create rules that no one, including themselves, have ever used and which they themselves don’t even use. They don’t then really help standardize usage but just muddle things up. ---
**Author:** ![guizot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guizot/32/3636_2.png) [@guizot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/guizot)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2015, 9:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/supposably-have-mispronounced-words-become-standard/712875/35 "2015-02-17T09:04:04Z")
> [@panache45](#): > > I’ve been noticing something that I think is rapidly becoming standard: dropping the final consonant of words, or contracting endings with multiple consonants. An example of the first is when Charlie Rose pronounces world as “worl” or Egypt as “Egyp.” An example of the second was a recent documentary about the role of forests. The usually well-spoken, educated scientist narrator had no trouble pronouncing the singular “forest,” but when using the plural, it consistently came out as “foress.” I had to work very hard to prevent this from ruining my enjoyment of the program. I think most of those are known as [unreleased stops](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_audible_release), and as the wiki article implies, they’re pretty standard for most non-formal North American English dialects–though I agree they can be more pronounced with some speakers than with others. ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2015, 10:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/supposably-have-mispronounced-words-become-standard/712875/36 "2015-02-17T10:00:16Z")
> [@WotNot](#): > > [Nope. It’s always been butterfly.](http://www.grammarphobia.com/blog/2008/02/a-swallowtail-by-any-other-name.html) Ignorance fought! ---
**Author:** ![bob\_2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bob_2/32/3341_2.png) [@bob\_2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bob_2)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2015, 10:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/supposably-have-mispronounced-words-become-standard/712875/37 "2015-02-17T10:26:37Z")
And of course you guys insist on using ‘al oo min um’ instead of ‘al u min yum’. I mean - it’s spelled - ALUMINIUM not ALUMINUM. ---
**Author:** ![Keeve](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/f07891/32.png) [@Keeve](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Keeve)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2015, 10:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/supposably-have-mispronounced-words-become-standard/712875/38 "2015-02-17T10:33:39Z")
> [@gigi](#): > > I used to say it the first way until I realized it’s like saying Favre as Farve. Now I make it a point to pronounce it as it is spelled. Do you say “Wednesday” or “Wendsday”? ---
**Author:** ![Keeve](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/f07891/32.png) [@Keeve](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Keeve)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2015, 10:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/supposably-have-mispronounced-words-become-standard/712875/39 "2015-02-17T10:38:04Z")
> [@guizot](#): > > Just to be clear, metathesis is not simply a result of “mishearing” a word. It’s usually a result of hearing a word. I’m sure that quite a few of those posting here, _ **when they’re speaking unselfconsciously** _, pronounce _prescription_ as /pərˈskrɪpʃ(ə)n/, even though they might deny it when asked. But that’s not from “mishearing.” It’s because many other people say it that way. I plead guilty. When speaking selfconsciously, I am careful to say February. But I am ashamed to admit that when speaking UNselfconsciously, far too often it comes out as Febyuary. ---
**Author:** ![Keeve](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/f07891/32.png) [@Keeve](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Keeve)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2015, 10:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/supposably-have-mispronounced-words-become-standard/712875/40 "2015-02-17T10:50:47Z")
I think that this thread ought to distinguish between changes which result from error or laziness, and those which are deliberate. And I don’t mean new words that result from new inventions. There are also cases where someone creates a new word for rhetorical purposes, and then it becomes popular: “ginormous” is the first to come to mind. And also words which were invented specifically to address a real or perceived problem: Am I correct that “nonflammable” was invented recently, because of confusion over “inflammable”? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/supposably-have-mispronounced-words-become-standard/712875.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/supposably-have-mispronounced-words-become-standard/712875.md?page=3)