# Supposably - have mispronounced words become standard? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [February 17, 2015, 12:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/supposably-have-mispronounced-words-become-standard/712875 "2015-02-17T00:36:45Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![ellie303](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/53a042/32.png) [@ellie303](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ellie303)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2015, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/supposably-have-mispronounced-words-become-standard/712875/141 "2015-02-19T22:25:47Z")
@ Guizot but many people do. I’ve been "corrected’’ before for saying “gonna”. People nitpick sometimes and it can make other people feel stupid. I don’t like it at all. I went on a date the other day and the guy said, “It’s whom, not who,” while I was speaking!! I know it’s whom, but I think that word sounds too uptight for me. Anyway, it pissed me off because this guy doesn’t even realize that I’m smarter than him. I don’t judge others, but I’m definitely sensitive to being judged. In a lot of cases, the way things are written doesn’t really matter, but if you’re working in a profession where it does, it can mean a lot to a lot of people. My boss won’t even let my coworker do anymore public speaking because her grammar/spelling is so bad. I feel bad for her because her speeches are so much better than mine and she’s ostracized because “it makes the company look weak”. It’s ridiculous. ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2015, 10:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/supposably-have-mispronounced-words-become-standard/712875/142 "2015-02-19T22:36:05Z")
> [@bump](#): > > I mean, I cringe every time I hear someone say “digestive track” How the heck can you know that the word is spelled T-R-A-C-T, and yet still pronounce it “track”? Except how often do you actually hear someone saying “My digestive track is acting up”? If they really were an ignorant hillbilly like you believe them to be, they’d say “guts”, or "bowels"or some other rude anglo-saxon word. And I guarantee that if you’re listening to the radio and a scientist says “We studied the digestive tracts of several species of antelope…” if you isolated the word “tracts” you’d find that the “t” was not actually pronounced, or at most pronounced as a slight stop. If you study how people actually speak you’ll find that they substitute or remove phonemes all the time. How do you pronounce a word like “water”? Go around the english-speaking planet and record people saying that word, and you’ll find a hundred different ways of saying that word. I’d bet you actually say “wader” every day, rather than “water”. It’s just that “d” and “t” extremely closely related sounds, substitution of one for the other is extremely common. This is how we get Odin, Oðinn and Wotan as spellings for the same mythological figure. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2015, 11:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/supposably-have-mispronounced-words-become-standard/712875/143 "2015-02-19T23:34:34Z")
> [@Lemur866](#): > > If you study how people actually speak you’ll find that they substitute or remove phonemes all the time. Reminds me of the conversation around “truck.” I didn’t know I said “chruck,” but I do. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2015, 11:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/supposably-have-mispronounced-words-become-standard/712875/144 "2015-02-19T23:54:28Z")
> [@sich\_hinaufwinden](#): > > I thought everyone pronounced that “t”. > > It’s the “c” right before it that I don’t pronounce and the dictionary notes that is standard pronunciation: [kuh-net-i-kuh t] You’re absolutely right. I fouled up my description of her mispronunciation. She says “conne **c** t” whereas AFAIK everybody else says “connet” with the second “c” just skipped. D’oh :smack: ---
**Author:** ![Keeve](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/f07891/32.png) [@Keeve](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Keeve)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2015, 12:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/supposably-have-mispronounced-words-become-standard/712875/145 "2015-02-20T00:00:15Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > In spontaneous speech, it sounds to me like most American speakers I know elide over the “t.” If I says “facts of life,” it comes out like “fax of life.” Only if I am speaking slowly and deliberately does that “t” get heard. Yes, but if if someone heard you say that, and wrote it down, wouldn’t you expect them to spell it as “facts”? > [@Senegoid](#): > > Eliding sounds or slurring adjacent sounds together is a fact of life is spoken language in general, especially in casual spoken language. > > For example, Hebrew has the common phrase מה העיניינים (or מָה הָעִנְיָנִים in another spelling I found) (mah ha-`inyanim) meaning, idiomatically, “What’s the matter?” But in ordinary spoken conversation, it’s always reduced to “man-ya-nim” (the vowels here sound similar to Spanish vowels). The English equivalent being, of course, “Wassup?” ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2015, 12:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/supposably-have-mispronounced-words-become-standard/712875/146 "2015-02-20T00:05:33Z")
> [@jsgoddess](#): > > Reminds me of the conversation around “truck.” I didn’t know I said “chruck,” but I do. A lot of people also pronounce words with “str” in them, like “structure”, as “shtructure”. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2015, 12:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/supposably-have-mispronounced-words-become-standard/712875/147 "2015-02-20T00:08:08Z")
I’m sure I will horrify many when I admit I don’t say the Ts in “Massachusetts.” It’s much closer to Massachususs. > [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > A lot of people also pronounce words with “str” in them, like “structure”, as “shtructure”. They both sound correct to me, but I suspect I say shtructure. ---
**Author:** ![Keeve](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/f07891/32.png) [@Keeve](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Keeve)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2015, 12:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/supposably-have-mispronounced-words-become-standard/712875/148 "2015-02-20T00:09:54Z")
About ten years ago, I was dictating something to someone. I don’t recall the circumstance, but this person was a high school graduate, possibly a college graduate. I enunciated every word very clearly and deliberately, to avoid confusion, and to make it easier for him. When I was done, I looked at what had been written. It was perfect, except every time I said “the”, he had written “thee”. I guess I had enunciated the words a bit too deliberately. ---
**Author:** ![drewtwo99](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d07c76/32.png) [@drewtwo99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drewtwo99)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2015, 12:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/supposably-have-mispronounced-words-become-standard/712875/149 "2015-02-20T00:19:25Z")
> [@Sailboat](#): > > I’ve recently seen two people use “curve” when they mean “curb.” “I am trying to _curve_ my dog’s tendency to…” This is a big one. I suspect dictionaries in 50 or 100 years will have alternate definitions. I hear it all the time. Also the other way around. “I hit the curve when I tried to park my car today.” Ummm… ok ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2015, 12:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/supposably-have-mispronounced-words-become-standard/712875/150 "2015-02-20T00:22:51Z")
> [@drewtwo99](#): > > This is a big one. I suspect dictionaries in 50 or 100 years will have alternate definitions. I hear it all the time. > > Also the other way around. “I hit the curve when I tried to park my car today.” Ummm… ok Others: Hone in. That doesn’t jive with the facts\*. (Sorry, “fax.”) 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2015, 12:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/supposably-have-mispronounced-words-become-standard/712875/151 "2015-02-20T00:34:35Z")
> [@Keeve](#): > > Yes, but if if someone heard you say that, and wrote it down, wouldn’t you expect them to spell it as “facts”? Yes, because the way we spell the word “facts” in English is “facts”, despite the fact that we don’t usually pronounce it that way. Just like we spell “knight” K-N-I-G-H-T but we don’t pronounce it “kuh-nicht” like they did back in the old days. All those random gh’s strewn through various words used to be pronounced like the the german “ch”. English has a standard orthography (or rather two, if we count those quaint people in Britain). If we actually spelled things how we pronounce them in our own idiolect it would make written communication much more difficult. Once you get past grade school you don’t read words by sounding them out, you read words as a unit. If I sometimes spelled “water” as wadder or wattuh or wa’a depending on my idiolect it would take forever to read. Standardized spelling helps tremendously. Take a look at middle English like Chaucer, and it’s really hard to read. But re-write it using modern spelling but keeping the words exactly the same and it’s suddenly easy even though the word choice is a bit odd. ---
**Author:** ![Ornery\_Bob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/da6949/32.png) [@Ornery\_Bob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ornery_Bob)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2015, 12:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/supposably-have-mispronounced-words-become-standard/712875/152 "2015-02-20T00:35:04Z")
_I went on a date the other day and the guy said, “It’s whom, not who,” while I was speaking!!_ I had a similar experience recently. It wasn’t a date, but it was a conversation with an a-hole who was asking me for a favor! My response to his interruption was, “I really don’t appreciate you being rude to me and interrupting me while I’m speaking. You can apologize for being rude to me and keep your petty grammar comments to yourself, or we’re done here.” “But whom is correct and who is not.” “I’m sorry that your mother didn’t care enough about you to teach you manners, but it’s not my problem. Please leave me alone” “But I need you to fix my computer.” “Fuck off.” I have no patience for people so insecure that they have to “prove” their superiority. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2015, 12:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/supposably-have-mispronounced-words-become-standard/712875/153 "2015-02-20T00:41:36Z")
> [@Ornery\_Bob](#): > > “But I need you to fix my computer.” You should have told him “I need thee to stop talking.” ---
**Author:** ![Honey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/honey/32/5074_2.png) [@Honey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Honey)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2015, 1:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/supposably-have-mispronounced-words-become-standard/712875/154 "2015-02-20T01:26:40Z")
> [@gigi](#): > > I used to say it the first way until I realized it’s like saying Favre as Farve. Now I make it a point to pronounce it as it is spelled. Heh. I do that too. I pronounce it as Favor. ---
**Author:** ![Ambivalid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a5b964/32.png) [@Ambivalid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ambivalid)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2015, 1:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/supposably-have-mispronounced-words-become-standard/712875/155 "2015-02-20T01:36:25Z")
> [@Honey](#): > > Heh. I do that too. I pronounce it as Favor. I pronounce it as “Ugh, go away already”. ---
**Author:** ![Keeve](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/f07891/32.png) [@Keeve](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Keeve)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2015, 2:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/supposably-have-mispronounced-words-become-standard/712875/156 "2015-02-20T02:53:25Z")
> [@Ornery\_Bob](#): > > _I went on a date the other day and the guy said, “It’s whom, not who,” while I was speaking!!_ > > I had a similar experience recently. It wasn’t a date, but it was a conversation with an a-hole who was asking me for a favor! My response to his interruption was, “I really don’t appreciate you being rude to me and interrupting me while I’m speaking. You can apologize for being rude to me and keep your petty grammar comments to yourself, or we’re done here.” > > “But whom is correct and who is not.” > > “I’m sorry that your mother didn’t care enough about you to teach you manners, but it’s not my problem. Please leave me alone” > > “But I need you to fix my computer.” > > “Fuck off.” > > I have no patience for people so insecure that they have to “prove” their superiority. I have no objection to the way you handled that, but my style would have been to say, “I will try to improve my grammar if you try to improve your manners. Do we have a deal?” ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2015, 3:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/supposably-have-mispronounced-words-become-standard/712875/157 "2015-02-20T03:33:14Z")
> [@Ornery\_Bob](#): > > _I went on a date the other day and the guy said, “It’s whom, not who,” while I was speaking!!_ Wow. People actually still correct that one? I simply refuse to use the word “whom” in casual conversation. Only if I’m intending to speak in a formal voice will I use it–it’s not a part of casual speech where I’m from, nor, it seems, where any of my friends are from. Seriously, even the most literary types I know do not use “whom” in casual speech. And I get amused when I hear over-corrections where people use “whom” where the subjective case “who” is called for. ---
**Author:** ![Honey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/honey/32/5074_2.png) [@Honey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Honey)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2015, 3:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/supposably-have-mispronounced-words-become-standard/712875/158 "2015-02-20T03:45:46Z")
> [@Ambivalid](#): > > I pronounce it as “Ugh, go away already”. Yeah. The reason I do it, is because I can’t stand him. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Honey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/honey/32/5074_2.png) [@Honey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Honey)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2015, 3:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/supposably-have-mispronounced-words-become-standard/712875/159 "2015-02-20T03:49:04Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > Wow. People actually still correct that one? I simply refuse to use the word “whom” in casual conversation. Only if I’m intending to speak in a formal voice will I use it–it’s not a part of casual speech where I’m from, nor, it seems, where any of my friends are from. Seriously, even the most literary types I know do not use “whom” in casual speech. And I get amused when I hear over-corrections where people use “whom” where the subjective case “who” is called for. Probably the same people who use “and I”, when “and me” is correct. Jim taught George and me how to ski. ---
**Author:** ![Ambivalid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a5b964/32.png) [@Ambivalid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ambivalid)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2015, 3:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/supposably-have-mispronounced-words-become-standard/712875/160 "2015-02-20T03:50:38Z")
> [@Ambivalid](#): > > I pronounce it as “Ugh, go away already”. > [@Honey](#): > > Yeah. The reason I do it, is because I can’t stand him. 😉 Yeah, maybe I should hone my pronunciation more to something like “Ugh, go away alreadyavre” [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/supposably-have-mispronounced-words-become-standard/712875.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/supposably-have-mispronounced-words-become-standard/712875.md?page=9)