# Suppose a fetus is indeed a human being. Why wouldn't abortion still remain legal? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [July 21, 2016, 3:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suppose-a-fetus-is-indeed-a-human-being-why-wouldnt-abortion-still-remain-legal/760464 "2016-07-21T03:00:54Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![spamforbrains](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e274bd/32.png) [@spamforbrains](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/spamforbrains)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2016, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suppose-a-fetus-is-indeed-a-human-being-why-wouldnt-abortion-still-remain-legal/760464/81 "2016-07-21T21:23:27Z")
> [@](#): > > How in the world? refusing someone else the use of your body is not murder even if it directly leads to their death. If you want to compare it to something then refusing women abortions is basically slavery. Exactly. The forced birthers go around talking about killing babies because they are trying to cover up the fact that laws against abortion take away all of a woman’s rights. If a woman can be forced to use her body by someone else, she no rights. If you ask anyone these questions, everyone will answer “yes” but because most people don’t seem to realize the moral implications of forcing women to carry unwanted fetuses, the forced birthers only focus on the first question: Are you against killing babies? Do you think women should be allowed to make their own medical decisions? Do you think women should be forced to donate organs to keep sick children alive? Do you think it’s ok for a woman to kill someone trying to kidnap or harm her? ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2016, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suppose-a-fetus-is-indeed-a-human-being-why-wouldnt-abortion-still-remain-legal/760464/82 "2016-07-21T21:31:58Z")
> [@Roland\_Orzabal](#): > > …and the other person doesn’t have that right (presuming they’d rather you didn’t kill them) because? Because it is someone elses body being used to keep them alive, you don’t have any right to someone elses body. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2016, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suppose-a-fetus-is-indeed-a-human-being-why-wouldnt-abortion-still-remain-legal/760464/83 "2016-07-21T21:35:42Z")
> [@Roland\_Orzabal](#): > > …and the other person doesn’t have that right (presuming they’d rather you didn’t kill them) because? You said they were parasitic – are you now presenting some sort of mutualistic sci-fi relationship that has nothing in common with pregnancy? ---
**Author:** ![spamforbrains](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e274bd/32.png) [@spamforbrains](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/spamforbrains)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2016, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suppose-a-fetus-is-indeed-a-human-being-why-wouldnt-abortion-still-remain-legal/760464/84 "2016-07-21T21:42:07Z")
> [@](#): > > but I’ve always thought it seemed a bit “off” to frame abortion as primarily a women’s rights issue. well, it is. 100%. It isn’t even about abortion or fetuses, it’s about women’s rights. Several of the prominent “pro-life” leaders have openly admitted this-they aren’t trying to save fetuses, they are trying to punish women for having sex and to control the sexuality of women. If you look at the actual actions of the “pro-life” people, their behavior is inconsistent with a goal of trying to prevent abortions. Several studies have shown that laws against abortions don’t reduce their incidence, and in actual practice countries with draconian laws against abortions tend to a) be extremely misogynist, and b) have higher rates of abortion than countries where it’s legal. The only proven method to reduce the abortion rate is to increase access to sex education and contraceptives. And yet, oddly, the “pro-life” people are almost universally opposed to contraception and sex education. Look in CO, where pro-choice people have managed to reduce the abortion rate among teenagers by 40%, but the “pro-life” people have repeatedly attempted to have the program tossed out. Look at the bizarre attacks on Planned Parenthood by the “pro-life” people: PP prevents hundreds of thousands of abortions every year and is the only source of contraception for many poor people. Get rid of it, and what goal is achieved? Certainly not any reduction in abortion rates. And the idea that anyone “consents” to parenthood just because they had sex is just ridiculous. If a person used contraception, that’s kind of a clue they didn’t consent to it. ---
**Author:** ![Roland\_Orzabal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c2a13f/32.png) [@Roland\_Orzabal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Roland_Orzabal)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2016, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suppose-a-fetus-is-indeed-a-human-being-why-wouldnt-abortion-still-remain-legal/760464/85 "2016-07-21T21:54:50Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > You said they were parasitic – are you now presenting some sort of mutualistic sci-fi relationship that has nothing in common with pregnancy? No, and I’m genuinely curious why you think I am. I fully acknowledge that nobody has the right to cause harm to your body. The thing is, the person attached to you didn’t do that. It’s _happening_, but he didn’t do it…and not in the “didn’t intend to” sense that a driver might say they didn’t mean to hit that pedestrian, but in the sense that he literally _did not_ create the situation. The situation just _is_. Unless existing in circumstances entirely beyond one’s control is a crime that justifies the death penalty, he retains the same right to bodily autonomy that you do. That situation sucks elephant ass, and simply should not _be_ at all — and thankfully, in the real world, it isn’t — but that fact doesn’t give you the right to kill someone who’s done nothing wrong. ETA: We’re still discussing a patently goofy hypothetical. I’m harping on that because I don’t want anyone thinking I’m trying some kind of backdoor pro-life justification. Everything I’m blathering about is based upon a given that a fetus is a full-fledged sentient human being, and bears no relation whatsoever to anything I actually believe about abortion. ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2016, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suppose-a-fetus-is-indeed-a-human-being-why-wouldnt-abortion-still-remain-legal/760464/86 "2016-07-21T22:04:13Z")
> [@Roland\_Orzabal](#): > > No, and I’m genuinely curious why you think I am. I fully acknowledge that nobody has the right to cause harm to your body. The thing is, the person attached to you didn’t do that. It’s _happening_, but he didn’t do it…and not in the “didn’t intend to” sense that a driver might say they didn’t mean to hit that pedestrian, but in the sense that he literally _did not_ create the situation. The situation just _is_. Unless existing in circumstances entirely beyond one’s control is a crime that justifies the death penalty, he retains the same right to bodily autonomy that you do. That situation sucks elephant ass, and simply should not _be_ at all — and thankfully, in the real world, it isn’t — but that fact doesn’t give you the right to kill someone who’s done nothing wrong. > > ETA: We’re still discussing a patently goofy hypothetical. I’m harping on that because I don’t want anyone thinking I’m trying some kind of backdoor pro-life justification. Everything I’m blathering about is based upon a given that a fetus is a full-fledged sentient human being, and bears no relation whatsoever to anything I actually believe about abortion. You don’t have the right to another person’s body no matter the circumstances, it doesn’t matter if it was your fault or not if you ended up that way. I could get in an accident tomorrow through absolutely no fault of my own, that does not give me the right to forcibly take any of your blood. ---
**Author:** ![Roland\_Orzabal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c2a13f/32.png) [@Roland\_Orzabal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Roland_Orzabal)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2016, 10:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suppose-a-fetus-is-indeed-a-human-being-why-wouldnt-abortion-still-remain-legal/760464/87 "2016-07-21T22:12:38Z")
> [@DigitalC](#): > > You don’t have the right to another person’s body no matter the circumstances, it doesn’t matter if it was your fault or not if you ended up that way. I could get in an accident tomorrow through absolutely no fault of my own, that does not give me the right to forcibly take any of your blood. I agree with this. You do not have the right to forcibly take any of my blood, “forcibly” meaning that you decide to do it and then take steps to make it happen. If some of my blood just happened to teleport into your body, saving you and endangering my life — and if that sounds farfetched, remember we’re operating in a world where two fully self-aware and intelligent beings wake up one day magically fused together — then I wouldn’t have the right to kill you to get it back, for the same reason. ETA (again, sorry, but re: **spamforbrains** ’s post, I think it’s important to clarify this) — I was hesitant to mention that bit about women’s rights because I didn’t want to give the impression, which it seems I have, that I thought the very real cultural phenomenon of systemic oppression in the guise of “human rights” was irrelevant. I believe it’s irrelevant _to the validity of one specific argument_, but on a broader sense, it’s one of the most relevant, and sickening, issues facing the country. ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Tildrum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e95f7d/32.png) [@Tom\_Tildrum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Tildrum)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2016, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suppose-a-fetus-is-indeed-a-human-being-why-wouldnt-abortion-still-remain-legal/760464/88 "2016-07-21T22:13:29Z")
> [@Trinopus](#): > > At the same time, the law won’t compel me to be a “parent” to my unwanted child. Yes, if the other physiological parent wants to be a caregiver and raise the sprat, he/she gets to. I might be compelled to pay bunches of money for child support. > > But the law does not compel me to change diapers, sing lullabyes, teach them their ABCs, remember their birthdays, and buy them their first car. > > I can walk away from a child I don’t want. Well, you can walk away if and only if someone else has agreed to take on the task of being a parent to your child. If you walk away, and the neighbors come by and find that your child hasn’t been changed or fed or clothed in several days, the law might not compel you to sing a lullaby, but it may very well put you in jail for neglect. > [@spamforbrains](#): > > And the idea that anyone “consents” to parenthood just because they had sex is just ridiculous. Not at all; this is precisely the rationale for imposition of child support upon an unwilling father. As I noted above, the law absolutely compels parenthood (absent an agreeable substitute), and it requires no more showing of consent than having had sex. The law doesn’t compel _pregnancy_, on the other hand, because pregnancy is a qualitatively different and more intrusive burden upon personal autonomy than parenthood. As **Trinopus** points out, you can in some circumstances buy your way out of parenthood. And again, even pregnancy can be compelled in the third trimester. ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2016, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suppose-a-fetus-is-indeed-a-human-being-why-wouldnt-abortion-still-remain-legal/760464/89 "2016-07-21T22:15:35Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > _But I still would trust that women know better what to do about their own bodies than government_. It’s not about their own bodies in this case. The government would act in order to prevent what has been proved in some way to be a murder. The government is totally in the business of preventing people from killing other people. > [@](#): > > It wouldn’t change my position that it’s abominable to force a woman to bear a child (or force a woman to end her pregnancy) under any circumstances whatsoever, and that women must be allowed to have full and complete control of their bodies, including when pregnant, under any and all circumstances. Even if you allowed them to end the pregnancy out of some general principle or another, they still should still be sentenced because they acted with complete recklessness. They engaged in an activity they could chose not to engage in, and resulting in the death of another human being. If fetuses are indeed persons in the full sense of the term, you can’t let everybody kill them without consequences simply because they don’t feel like stopping having sex, and don’t want to have to deal with the predictable result of having sex either. The situation is entirely of your own making, without any fault on the victim’s part. You put it in this bad spot basically because you felt like it. Even if we take as granted that one’s own body is sacrosanct for some unknown hypothetical reason, and that abortion should be allowed if you insist on it, you’re still guilty at the very least of reckless endangerment or some kind of manslaughter. As I already wrote, if the fetus is a person, aborting isn’t much different from abandoning a newborn to die of exposure. ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2016, 10:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suppose-a-fetus-is-indeed-a-human-being-why-wouldnt-abortion-still-remain-legal/760464/90 "2016-07-21T22:20:12Z")
> [@DigitalC](#): > > You don’t have the right to another person’s body no matter the circumstances, it doesn’t matter if it was your fault or not if you ended up that way. I could get in an accident tomorrow through absolutely no fault of my own, that does not give me the right to forcibly take any of your blood. Maybe not. But if the accident is entirely my fault (say, I was drunk and driving at 120 m/h), even though I can’t be compelled to give blood and save your life, I can definitely still be sentenced in court for my criminally reckless behaviour. And the fact that on top of it I refused to give blood to save you probably won’t help my case. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2016, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suppose-a-fetus-is-indeed-a-human-being-why-wouldnt-abortion-still-remain-legal/760464/91 "2016-07-21T22:24:40Z")
> [@Roland\_Orzabal](#): > > No, and I’m genuinely curious why you think I am. I fully acknowledge that nobody has the right to cause harm to your body. The thing is, the person attached to you didn’t do that. It’s _happening_, but he didn’t do it…and not in the “didn’t intend to” sense that a driver might say they didn’t mean to hit that pedestrian, but in the sense that he literally _did not_ create the situation. The situation just _is_. Unless existing in circumstances entirely beyond one’s control is a crime that justifies the death penalty, he retains the same right to bodily autonomy that you do. That situation sucks elephant ass, and simply should not _be_ at all — and thankfully, in the real world, it isn’t — but that fact doesn’t give you the right to kill someone who’s done nothing wrong. > > ETA: We’re still discussing a patently goofy hypothetical. I’m harping on that because I don’t want anyone thinking I’m trying some kind of backdoor pro-life justification. Everything I’m blathering about is based upon a given that a fetus is a full-fledged sentient human being, and bears no relation whatsoever to anything I actually believe about abortion. It doesn’t matter. It may be competing rights, but when rights compete and one of them is bodily autonomy, _bodily autonomy takes precedence_. Always. 100%. If I wake up and a little tiny dude is inside of me, and removing him will kill him, then I still can get rid of him no matter how he got there. It doesn’t matter if he snuck in while I slept or if a mad scientist injected him into me. Bodily autonomy takes precedence 100% absolutely all the time with zero exceptions. I may choose to leave him, but I absolutely should have the right to restrict my body to myself if I so choose, no matter how the scenario occurred. Clear yet? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2016, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suppose-a-fetus-is-indeed-a-human-being-why-wouldnt-abortion-still-remain-legal/760464/92 "2016-07-21T22:25:41Z")
> [@clairobscur](#): > > It’s not about their own bodies in this case. The government would act in order to prevent what has been proved in some way to be a murder. The government is totally in the business of preventing people from killing other people. > > Even if you allowed them to end the pregnancy out of some general principle or another, they still should still be sentenced because they acted with complete recklessness. They engaged in an activity they could chose not to engage in, and resulting in the death of another human being. > > If fetuses are indeed persons in the full sense of the term, you can’t let everybody kill them without consequences simply because they don’t feel like stopping having sex, and don’t want to have to deal with the predictable result of having sex either. The situation is entirely of your own making, without any fault on the victim’s part. You put it in this bad spot basically because you felt like it. Even if we take as granted that one’s own body is sacrosanct for some unknown hypothetical reason, and that abortion should be allowed if you insist on it, you’re still guilty at the very least of reckless endangerment or some kind of manslaughter. > > As I already wrote, if the fetus is a person, aborting isn’t much different from abandoning a newborn to die of exposure. Very very strongly disagree. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2016, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suppose-a-fetus-is-indeed-a-human-being-why-wouldnt-abortion-still-remain-legal/760464/93 "2016-07-21T22:26:55Z")
> [@spamforbrains](#): > > And the idea that anyone “consents” to parenthood just because they had sex is just ridiculous. If a person used contraception, that’s kind of a clue they didn’t consent to it. What about fathers who don’t want to pay child support? ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2016, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suppose-a-fetus-is-indeed-a-human-being-why-wouldnt-abortion-still-remain-legal/760464/94 "2016-07-21T22:27:30Z")
> [@spamforbrains](#): > > And the idea that anyone “consents” to parenthood just because they had sex is just ridiculous. If a person used contraception, that’s kind of a clue they didn’t consent to it. As I wrote above, if you’re male, you’re consenting to parenthood every time you have sex, regardless of how many precautions you took to avoid becoming a parent. Regardless how ridiculous you find the concept, it’s enshrined in law pretty much everywhere, and few people dispute it. Unless you’re a menopaused woman, sex results in pregnancies. That’s not something people should ever forget. ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2016, 10:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suppose-a-fetus-is-indeed-a-human-being-why-wouldnt-abortion-still-remain-legal/760464/95 "2016-07-21T22:38:02Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Very very strongly disagree. Tell me why. If you chose to have sex, got pregnant with a child (not a fetus) as a result, and subsequently kill the child, you think you have no moral responsibility whatsoever in the death of this child? And if you think you don’t have any such responsibility, why then shouldn’t you also be allowed to kill him after birth rather than being compelled to care for him for the next 18 years? ---
**Author:** ![Roland\_Orzabal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c2a13f/32.png) [@Roland\_Orzabal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Roland_Orzabal)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2016, 10:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suppose-a-fetus-is-indeed-a-human-being-why-wouldnt-abortion-still-remain-legal/760464/96 "2016-07-21T22:43:04Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > It doesn’t matter. It may be competing rights, but when rights compete and one of them is bodily autonomy, _bodily autonomy takes precedence_. Always. 100%. If I wake up and a little tiny dude is inside of me, and removing him will kill him, then I still can get rid of him no matter how he got there. It doesn’t matter if he snuck in while I slept or if a mad scientist injected him into me. Bodily autonomy takes precedence 100% absolutely all the time with zero exceptions. I may choose to leave him, but I absolutely should have the right to restrict my body to myself if I so choose, no matter how the scenario occurred. > > Clear yet? Your opinion that your body is sacrosanct is crystal clear and as far as I can tell I agree with it. Your opinion that the only person whose bodily autonomy is thusly inviolable is _you_ is the part I’m not sold on. As best I can tell, you’re saying that his right to his own autonomy — and his own life — is revoked because of something he didn’t do and bears no culpability for. That’s the part I have a problem with. (In the mad scientist scenario, I’d have no problem with you killing the scientist, if that makes things any clearer.) Or, wait, are you saying that bodily autonomy is separate from the right not to be killed, and takes precedence over that? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2016, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suppose-a-fetus-is-indeed-a-human-being-why-wouldnt-abortion-still-remain-legal/760464/97 "2016-07-21T22:46:27Z")
> [@clairobscur](#): > > Tell me why. If you chose to have sex, got pregnant with a child (not a fetus) as a result, and subsequently kill the child, you think you have no moral responsibility whatsoever in the death of this child? And if you think you don’t have any such responsibility, why then shouldn’t you also be allowed to kill him after birth rather than being compelled to care for him for the next 18 years? Moral responsibility, maybe. That doesn’t mean the government gets to decide. It’s always – ALWAYS – up to the woman. It doesn’t matter how they got pregnant. It doesn’t matter who is inside them, or how they got there. Every woman always 100% has the right to evict any person inside them, no matter how they got there, and no matter if they will die if they are evicted. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2016, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suppose-a-fetus-is-indeed-a-human-being-why-wouldnt-abortion-still-remain-legal/760464/98 "2016-07-21T22:49:09Z")
> [@Roland\_Orzabal](#): > > Your opinion that your body is sacrosanct is crystal clear and as far as I can tell I agree with it. Your opinion that the only person whose bodily autonomy is thusly inviolable is _you_ is the part I’m not sold on. As best I can tell, you’re saying that his right to his own autonomy — and his own life — is revoked because of something he didn’t do and bears no culpability for. That’s the part I have a problem with. (In the mad scientist scenario, I’d have no problem with you killing the scientist, if that makes things any clearer.) His right to life conflicts with my right to control my body. My bodily autonomy doesn’t conflict with his bodily autonomy – he can do anything he likes with his body as long as it doesn’t conflict with my body… unfortunately, his living conflicts with my bodily autonomy. Since his is the parasitic relationship – his life relies on my body, but not vice versa – my bodily autonomy takes precedence. We do nothing, and he is feeding off my body – I’m not feeding off his. I have the right to say “no, you can’t feed off my body any more”, under any circumstance whatsoever. His bodily autonomy doesn’t come into play because I’m not feeding off his body in any way whatsoever. ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2016, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suppose-a-fetus-is-indeed-a-human-being-why-wouldnt-abortion-still-remain-legal/760464/99 "2016-07-21T22:53:58Z")
> [@MandaJo](#): > > Pregnancy is a thousand times more invasive than any of those. I thought having a child would make me lean more pro-life, but it made me more pro-choice instead. Pregnancy is a hell of a thing–even when it’s routine. It literally takes over your body. For a lot of us, it demands surgery at the end. > . Yes, but pregnancy isn’t something that just happens to you. You have to take an active step to end up in this situation. A step that you can perfectly avoid taking. If abortion is considered murder because it’s proven beyond any doubt that a fetus is as human as you are, it’s not a choice between enduring pregnancy and spending 20 years being bars. It’s a choice between getting pregnant (and enduring the consequences) and not getting pregnant. Otherwise, you’re just saying that your sexual satisfaction is worth killing another person. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2016, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suppose-a-fetus-is-indeed-a-human-being-why-wouldnt-abortion-still-remain-legal/760464/100 "2016-07-21T22:57:50Z")
> [@clairobscur](#): > > Yes, but pregnancy isn’t something that just happens to you. You have to take an active step to end up in this situation. A step that you can perfectly avoid taking. If abortion is considered murder because it’s proven beyond any doubt that a fetus is as human as you are, it’s not a choice between enduring pregnancy and spending 20 years being bars. It’s a choice between getting pregnant (and enduring the consequences) and not getting pregnant. Otherwise, you’re just saying that your sexual satisfaction is worth killing another person. I don’t think it matters why people have sex with regards to abortion, but I see sex as a totally normal and even psychologically necessary activity – almost as much as eating and breathing. People have sex because they’re people, and that’s what people do. So yes, your existence and continued psychological normalcy is worth the chance of possibly killing a person, since the alternative is tantamount to increasing the chance of possibly killing one’s self. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suppose-a-fetus-is-indeed-a-human-being-why-wouldnt-abortion-still-remain-legal/760464.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suppose-a-fetus-is-indeed-a-human-being-why-wouldnt-abortion-still-remain-legal/760464.md?page=6)