# Suppose Gary Hart Hadn't Been Caught Out as an Adulterer? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 18, 2014, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suppose-gary-hart-hadnt-been-caught-out-as-an-adulterer/698880 "2014-09-18T22:33:27Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![The\_Second\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@The\_Second\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Second_Stone)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2014, 4:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suppose-gary-hart-hadnt-been-caught-out-as-an-adulterer/698880/61 "2014-09-22T04:36:56Z")
The suggestion that conspiracies never happen is also ludicrous. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2014, 5:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suppose-gary-hart-hadnt-been-caught-out-as-an-adulterer/698880/62 "2014-09-22T05:10:43Z")
> [@The\_Second\_Stone](#): > > The suggestion that conspiracies never happen is also ludicrous. Who has suggested that? Please name the person who has and quote where they said that. > [@](#): > > Sen. John Ensign, blackmailed by a staffer for Ensign having an affair with staffer’s wife. Not a “honey trap”. > [@](#): > > Brian J. Doyle, set up by police to think he was seducing a 14 year old girl. Not a “honey trap” unless you consider Chris Harrison to be a practitioner of “honey traps”. > [@](#): > > David Dreier, congressman who opposed gay rights outed as gay by man who befriended him for just that purpose. Utter bullshit. He was caught fucking his Cheif of Staff. He wasn’t the victim of a honey trap. > [@](#): > > Robert Bauman, attempting to solicit. Oh bullshit! Do you actually read up on this or do you just do a quick google search and hope everyone will just take what you say at face value. He was caught screwing an underage prostitute, that’s not remotely close to being the victim of a honey trap. > [@](#): > > Thomas Evans with lobbyist Paula Parinson Not a victim of a honey trap. > [@](#): > > Walter Jenkins Oh please! I newly wet myself laughing at this. He was caught screwing another man in a public place. Frankly you could make a more credible claim that the idiot Idaho senator was a victim of a “honey trap”. > [@](#): > > David Walsh Ok this example is possibly the dumbest example you’ve provided. Are you under the impression he was set up by his American political opponents because I’ve seen no evidence of this or do you not know what a “honey trap” is? ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2014, 12:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suppose-gary-hart-hadnt-been-caught-out-as-an-adulterer/698880/63 "2014-09-22T12:37:17Z")
> [@The\_Second\_Stone](#): > > Good God that is entertaining. Your posts, on the other hand, are pathetic. > [@](#): > > Hart was arrogant and wrong. Clinton made the exact same mistake. That doesn’t mean the mistress of either wasn’t spilling the beans, wittingly or unwittingly, to the people who egged them on. Do you have any evidence that Hart was set up, or not? So far, obviously, the answer is Not. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![notquitekarpov](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/71c47a/32.png) [@notquitekarpov](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/notquitekarpov)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2014, 2:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suppose-gary-hart-hadnt-been-caught-out-as-an-adulterer/698880/64 "2014-09-22T14:03:42Z")
Hart and McGovern would have been excellent Presidents, in my view. Given that the US electoral majority has almost never seemed to agree with my views, I suspect that Hart would have lost the election if nominated. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2014, 2:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suppose-gary-hart-hadnt-been-caught-out-as-an-adulterer/698880/65 "2014-09-22T14:14:52Z")
Lest we forget the actual assertion made in his first post: > [@The Second Stone](#): > > I’ve always had the unsupported suspicion that she was a plant sent by someone like Atwater. A “plant” is not when you find out, after the fact, that someone is having an affair. A “plant” is when you set someone up to start the affair from the beginning. Hart cooked his own goose, just like Clinton did. No one set either of them up. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2014, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suppose-gary-hart-hadnt-been-caught-out-as-an-adulterer/698880/66 "2014-09-22T15:16:54Z")
Not to mention the other (ahem) unsubstantiated accusation that Bush Sr had a mistress. Which apparently we know is true because [LBJ wire-tapped Nixon](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paris_Peace_Accords), or Alexander Hamilton conspired with Linda Tripp to set up Brian Doyle, or something. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2014, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suppose-gary-hart-hadnt-been-caught-out-as-an-adulterer/698880/67 "2014-09-22T15:36:46Z")
I thought it was generally accepted that Bush had an affair with, IIRC, his female driver during WWII in Europe. But not during the campaign we are discussing in this thread. The whole point of the Hart affair (pun intended) was that reporters broke the veil of secrecy that had been understood to protect powerful pols from most accusations of affairs over the years. ---
**Author:** ![astorian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ad7895/32.png) [@astorian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astorian)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2014, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suppose-gary-hart-hadnt-been-caught-out-as-an-adulterer/698880/68 "2014-09-22T16:34:14Z")
Why was Gary Hart perceived as a front runner for the Democratic nom ination in 1988? Because he had tons of money? No. Because he had the unions in his corner? No. Because he was extraordinarily popular? Again, no. Hart was perceived as a frontrunner in 1988 almost solely because he’d been a (very distant) runner-up for the nomination in 1984. He had no prayer of winning in 1984, but got a lot of free publicity that year from reporters who wanted to pretend there was a competitive race going on. In 1988, Hart was one of MANY so-so candidates seeking the Democratic nomination, along with Richard Gephardt, Michael Dukakis, Al Gore, Jesse Jackson, Joe Biden, Bruce Babbitt and Paul Simon. (You may recall that was the year a then-bald Joe Biden shot himself in the foot by stealing British Labourite Neil Kinnock’s speech!) Hart had a chance, certainly, but he was FAR from a lock to win the nomination even if there’d been no scandals. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2014, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suppose-gary-hart-hadnt-been-caught-out-as-an-adulterer/698880/69 "2014-09-22T16:40:38Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > I thought it was generally accepted that Bush had an affair with, IIRC, his female driver during WWII in Europe. I think that was Eisenhower. Bush Sr was in the Navy; I don’t think he had a driver. (ETA: He didn’t marry Barbara until after he returned from the Pacific and had left the Navy). He was accused of having an affair with his secretary, because she worked for him for a long time in the various positions he held. Unless I have been whooshed… Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2014, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suppose-gary-hart-hadnt-been-caught-out-as-an-adulterer/698880/70 "2014-09-22T17:35:44Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > I think that was Eisenhower. Bush Sr was in the Navy; I don’t think he had a driver. (ETA: He didn’t marry Barbara until after he returned from the Pacific and had left the Navy). He was accused of having an affair with his secretary, because she worked for him for a long time in the various positions he held. > > Unless I have been whooshed… > > Regards, > Shodan No, you’re probably right. It’s hard to keep all these pols and their various affairs straight. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2014, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suppose-gary-hart-hadnt-been-caught-out-as-an-adulterer/698880/71 "2014-09-22T17:46:34Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > No, you’re probably right. It’s hard to keep all these pols and their various affairs straight. 🙂 That’s what special prosecutors are for. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2014, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suppose-gary-hart-hadnt-been-caught-out-as-an-adulterer/698880/72 "2014-09-22T18:11:05Z")
George H.W. Bush was rumored to have had several affairs over many years. The only reason it’s pertinent to this topic is to mention that none of the rumors have been substantiated, and he didn’t challenge the press to follow him around, so it has no bearing on the actual Hart situation. If Hart had been the victim of unsubstantiated rumors, and not evidence of actual affairs, he would not have been treated any differently than Bush. ETA: Or not treated much differently, the press and politics don’t operate on a fairness basis. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2014, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suppose-gary-hart-hadnt-been-caught-out-as-an-adulterer/698880/73 "2014-09-22T19:25:15Z")
In fact, if you look at Clinton, there was all kinds of evidence of several affairs before and during the campaign, yet he was able to skirt the issue almost completely. But it’s hard to pass up a picture of a candidate with a blonde sitting on his lap on a boat called “Monkey Business”. That’s a slow lob across the plate… ---
**Author:** ![The\_Second\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@The\_Second\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Second_Stone)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2014, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suppose-gary-hart-hadnt-been-caught-out-as-an-adulterer/698880/74 "2014-09-22T19:25:20Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Not to mention the other (ahem) unsubstantiated accusation that Bush Sr had a mistress. > > Which apparently we know is true because [LBJ wire-tapped Nixon](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paris_Peace_Accords), or Alexander Hamilton conspired with Linda Tripp to set up Brian Doyle, or something. > > Regards, > Shodan Bush did have a longtime paramour her name, which finally came to me, is Jennifer Fitzgerald. But she isn’t a honey pot, but rather a long term paramour and staffer of his. Neither he nor she ever confirmed an affair. > [@John\_Mace](#): > > I thought it was generally accepted that Bush had an affair with, IIRC, his female driver during WWII in Europe. But not during the campaign we are discussing in this thread. > > The whole point of the Hart affair (pun intended) was that reporters broke the veil of secrecy that had been understood to protect powerful pols from most accusations of affairs over the years. Bush served in the Pacific and did not have a driver. Perhaps you are thinking of Eisenhower and the rumors about his driver, Kay Sommersby. Neither Eisenhower or Sommersby ever confirmed those rumors. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2014, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suppose-gary-hart-hadnt-been-caught-out-as-an-adulterer/698880/75 "2014-09-22T19:57:50Z")
> [@The\_Second\_Stone](#): > > Bush did have a longtime paramour her name, which finally came to me, is Jennifer Fitzgerald. But she isn’t a honey pot, but rather a long term paramour and staffer of his. And you know this definitively how? Yes, there were rumors, but rumors and facts are not always the same. Do you have any compelling evidence for this or is this a case of “my post is my cite”? ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2014, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suppose-gary-hart-hadnt-been-caught-out-as-an-adulterer/698880/76 "2014-09-22T20:11:47Z")
> [@The\_Second\_Stone](#): > > Bush did have a longtime paramour her name, which finally came to me, is Jennifer Fitzgerald. You use the word “did” in the sense of “Hillary Clinton did kill Vince Foster”. Right? ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2014, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suppose-gary-hart-hadnt-been-caught-out-as-an-adulterer/698880/77 "2014-09-22T20:28:50Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > Do you have any compelling evidence for this or is this a case of “my post is my cite”? Hilary Clinton tried to[push this briefly](http://www.people.com/people/archive/article/0,,20108467,00.html) to counter the entirely true talk about Bill’s whoring, but the story originally appears to have been made up by some CNN reporter’s wife who was trying to push a book. She claimed some ambassador (conveniently dead) told her. After all, they wouldn’t be allowed to publish that if it weren’t [true](http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/12/24/672437/-George-W-Laura-Bush-to-Divorce)! Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![The\_Second\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@The\_Second\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Second_Stone)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2014, 10:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suppose-gary-hart-hadnt-been-caught-out-as-an-adulterer/698880/78 "2014-09-22T22:14:16Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > You use the word “did” in the sense of “Hillary Clinton did kill Vince Foster”. Right? It’s unsurprising to find that you think Hillary Clinton killed Vince Foster. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2014, 10:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suppose-gary-hart-hadnt-been-caught-out-as-an-adulterer/698880/79 "2014-09-22T22:43:03Z")
> [@The\_Second\_Stone](#): > > It’s unsurprising to find that you think Hillary Clinton killed Vince Foster. That would be funny if it weren’t absurd. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Second\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@The\_Second\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Second_Stone)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2014, 11:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suppose-gary-hart-hadnt-been-caught-out-as-an-adulterer/698880/80 "2014-09-22T23:09:36Z")
My thought exactly. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suppose-gary-hart-hadnt-been-caught-out-as-an-adulterer/698880.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suppose-gary-hart-hadnt-been-caught-out-as-an-adulterer/698880.md?page=5)