# Suppose I just sauntered into Mordor (Spoilers expected) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [September 21, 2002, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suppose-i-just-sauntered-into-mordor-spoilers-expected/129016 "2002-09-21T19:12:04Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Speaker\_for\_the\_Dead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c77e96/32.png) [@Speaker\_for\_the\_Dead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Speaker_for_the_Dead)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2002, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suppose-i-just-sauntered-into-mordor-spoilers-expected/129016/1 "2002-09-21T19:12:04Z")
Suppose I just donned my Uber-Armor ™ and decided to walk into the heart of Mordor… what would Sauron look like? A giant eye? Would I be able to see him without the ring? ---
**Author:** ![Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/qadgop_the_mercotan/32/83_2.png) [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qadgop_the_Mercotan)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2002, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suppose-i-just-sauntered-into-mordor-spoilers-expected/129016/2 "2002-09-21T19:22:38Z")
Well, since the destruction of his body in the downfall of Numenor, Sauron was unable to assume fair form. And despite the Movie Saruman’s claim that Sauron was yet unbodied, in the book he had taken form again. Gollum implied he was all black and burning, and had but 4 fingers on his ring hand ---
**Author:** ![Speaker\_for\_the\_Dead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c77e96/32.png) [@Speaker\_for\_the\_Dead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Speaker_for_the_Dead)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2002, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suppose-i-just-sauntered-into-mordor-spoilers-expected/129016/3 "2002-09-21T20:47:44Z")
Was he already in a body when he was the Necromancer? ---
**Author:** ![Just\_Some\_Guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ad7895/32.png) [@Just\_Some\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Just_Some_Guy)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2002, 10:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suppose-i-just-sauntered-into-mordor-spoilers-expected/129016/4 "2002-09-21T22:59:29Z")
He definitely has some kind of form but let’s not forget that Gollum is a special case. Remember he had the Ring for five hundred years so he might be able to see the Nazgul uncloaked and Sauron when other people might not see anything. ---
**Author:** ![Speaker\_for\_the\_Dead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c77e96/32.png) [@Speaker\_for\_the\_Dead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Speaker_for_the_Dead)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2002, 5:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suppose-i-just-sauntered-into-mordor-spoilers-expected/129016/5 "2002-09-22T05:07:07Z")
Hm, yes… and this is a completely assinine nit-pick question, but how the heck did Sauron get that ring onto his finger in the movie? The armor on his knuckle was probably twice the size of the ring’s diameter! ---
**Author:** ![Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/qadgop_the_mercotan/32/83_2.png) [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qadgop_the_Mercotan)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2002, 5:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suppose-i-just-sauntered-into-mordor-spoilers-expected/129016/6 "2002-09-22T05:13:12Z")
**speaker** , it’s a _magic_ ring, for pity’s sake! ---
**Author:** ![Kipper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Kipper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kipper)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2002, 5:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suppose-i-just-sauntered-into-mordor-spoilers-expected/129016/7 "2002-09-22T05:33:31Z")
The ring changes size to suit the wearer or to be more precise who it wants to be worn by. When it no longer wants to be worn my Gollum it becomes larger and slips off his finger. A large variety of ring sizes were made for the film. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2002, 5:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suppose-i-just-sauntered-into-mordor-spoilers-expected/129016/8 "2002-09-22T05:41:00Z")
Gandalf talking to Frodo about the Ring: > [@](#): > > ‘…Though he [Bilbo] had found out that the thing needed looking after; it did not seem always of the same size or weight; it shrank or expanded in an odd way, and might suddenly slip off a finger where it had been tight.’ > > ‘Yes, he warned me of that in his last letter,’ said Frodo, ‘so I have always kept it on its chain.’ _Fellowship of the Ring_, “The Shadow of the Past.” And see also “Of the Rings of Power and the Third Age” in _The Silmarillion_: > [@](#): > > Isildur himself escaped [from the Battle of Gladden Fields] by means of the Ring, for when he wore it he was invisible to all eyes; but the Orcs hunted him by scent and slot, until he came to the River and plunged in. **There the Ring betrayed him and avenged its maker, for it slipped from his finger as he swam,** and it was lost in the water. Then the Orcs saw him as he laboured in the stream and they shot him with many arrows, and that was his end. [hijack]What is “slot” and how can one hunt by it? ---
**Author:** ![Speaker\_for\_the\_Dead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c77e96/32.png) [@Speaker\_for\_the\_Dead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Speaker_for_the_Dead)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2002, 5:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suppose-i-just-sauntered-into-mordor-spoilers-expected/129016/9 "2002-09-22T05:54:41Z")
Sometimes the book almost implies the ring can think, is that true? At the very least it can percieve its wearer and Sauron, right? ---
**Author:** ![Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/qadgop_the_mercotan/32/83_2.png) [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qadgop_the_Mercotan)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2002, 6:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suppose-i-just-sauntered-into-mordor-spoilers-expected/129016/10 "2002-09-22T06:12:52Z")
slot n. The track or trail of an animal, especially a deer. [Obsolete French esclot, horse’s hoofprint, from Old French, perhaps from Old Norse sldh, track.] Source: The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition Copyright © 2000 by Houghton Mifflin Company. Published by Houghton Mifflin Company. All rights reserved. ---
**Author:** ![Koxinga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/4af34b/32.png) [@Koxinga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Koxinga)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2002, 6:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suppose-i-just-sauntered-into-mordor-spoilers-expected/129016/11 "2002-09-22T06:40:05Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Speaker for the Dead \* > \*\*Sometimes the book almost implies the ring can think, is that true? At the very least it can percieve its wearer and Sauron, right? \*\* Not only that, I seem to recall a scene where the Ring was _speaking_ through Frodo. Wasn’t Gollum grovelling before Frodo at one point, and Frodo said something like, I am no longer yours and if you touch _me_ again you will die? Or am I misremembering? ---
**Author:** ![Coriolanus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/coriolanus/32/18769_2.png) [@Coriolanus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Coriolanus)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2002, 7:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suppose-i-just-sauntered-into-mordor-spoilers-expected/129016/12 "2002-09-22T07:20:40Z")
You could not ‘saunter’ into Mordor. There were only a few passes, and they were rather intensely watched by Mordor folk (and nasty statues) as well as by Rangers of Ithilien - and folk of Dol Amroth if you’d be thinking of sailing in. The likelihood you’d be summarily dropped by either side is high. From Robert Foster’s **The Complete Guide to Middle Earth** > [@](#): > > Because of its great evil power, the Ring had curious properties. It posessed a certain measure of self-determination. Gandalf, who had wisdom in such matters, claimed that Bilbo found the Ring because it wanted to be found in order to be re-united with Sauron. The Ring also used and devoured its bearers, unless, like Sauron, they were of very great power ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2002, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suppose-i-just-sauntered-into-mordor-spoilers-expected/129016/13 "2002-09-22T18:03:26Z")
I don[t know if this makes any sense, but it always seemed to me that the Ring could not actually “think”, yet had free will nonetheless. We definitely have it doing things like betraying its wearer, and wanting to be found, and Sauron imbued it not only with his power, but with his malice. ---
**Author:** ![Narile](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/71c47a/32.png) [@Narile](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Narile)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2002, 3:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suppose-i-just-sauntered-into-mordor-spoilers-expected/129016/14 "2002-09-23T03:02:28Z")
I think it would be more appropriate to think of the ring as having a dog level AI or expert system. It didn’t think exactly. It more reacted in a way that would probably get it closer to its ‘desired’ state. ```auto while( !On_Saurons_Finger ) { if( !Still_Usefull_To_Get_To_Sauron ) { SlipOffFinger( &GoodLocation, &GoodTime ); while( WaitForPickup( 3000yrs ) != PickedUp ) { CallOut( &DistFromSauron, Evil ); } } if( !BearerUnderControl ) { BeABurden( DevourWill( )* ); } TemptAll( Sight, HearOf, KnowOf ); } ``` ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2002, 3:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suppose-i-just-sauntered-into-mordor-spoilers-expected/129016/15 "2002-09-23T03:25:10Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Narile \* > \*\*I think it would be more appropriate to think of the ring as having a dog level AI or expert system. It didn’t think exactly. It more reacted in a way that would probably get it closer to its ‘desired’ state. > > ```auto > > while( !On_Saurons_Finger ) > { > if( !Still_Usefull_To_Get_To_Sauron ) > { > SlipOffFinger( &GoodLocation, &GoodTime ); > while( WaitForPickup( 3000yrs ) != PickedUp ) > { > CallOut( &DistFromSauron, Evil ); > } > } > if( !BearerUnderControl ) > { > BeABurden( DevourWill( )* ); > } > TemptAll( Sight, HearOf, KnowOf ); > } > > ``` > > \*\* So Sauron was the SysAdmin for the very first Tolkien Ring Network? Ooh…I’m going to Udun for that one… ---
**Author:** ![Speaker\_for\_the\_Dead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c77e96/32.png) [@Speaker\_for\_the\_Dead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Speaker_for_the_Dead)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2002, 5:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suppose-i-just-sauntered-into-mordor-spoilers-expected/129016/16 "2002-09-23T05:38:37Z")
**Corbomite** , I donned my Uber-Armour ™ with good cause. ---
**Author:** ![smiling\_bandit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9a140/32.png) [@smiling\_bandit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smiling_bandit)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2002, 1:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suppose-i-just-sauntered-into-mordor-spoilers-expected/129016/17 "2002-09-23T13:37:23Z")
This thread has fallen to the darkness! Lok’tar Ogar, my warriors! Crush them all! ---
**Author:** ![Knowed\_Out](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/knowed_out/32/7380_2.png) [@Knowed\_Out](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Knowed_Out)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2002, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suppose-i-just-sauntered-into-mordor-spoilers-expected/129016/18 "2002-09-23T15:09:55Z")
What I always found interesting about LotR was that it never depicted the main villain’s POV. Sauron was always a mystery. He was never a tangible body to sink a sword into. Even in _Silmarillion_, when Sauron had a body and fair form, he operated from behind the scenes and was more shadow than substance. ---
**Author:** ![Floater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/dc4da7/32.png) [@Floater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Floater)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2002, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suppose-i-just-sauntered-into-mordor-spoilers-expected/129016/19 "2002-09-23T15:32:20Z")
If you want to see a picture of Sauron wearing the rong you can turn your browsers [here](http://myfiles.host.sk/myfiles/gallery/prsten.jpg)! :eek: ---
**Author:** ![partly\_warmer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/bc8723/32.png) [@partly\_warmer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/partly_warmer)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2002, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suppose-i-just-sauntered-into-mordor-spoilers-expected/129016/20 "2002-09-23T15:56:41Z")
[BFloater\*\*, no I can’t. I get “permission denied”. That’s false advertising, buddy. Pull over and show me your driver’s license. And tax records. And library card. * * * **Speaker for the Dead** , I saw the ring’s “thinking” as a tenuous extention of Sauron’s own. It was as if Sauron could direct the ring, but only in the most tenuous and haphazard way (that is, when he wasn’t wearing it). Thus the ring fed off basic impulses such as “Betray anyone but Sauron”. “Compel wearer to take off, when wearer wants it on.” “Compel wearer to put on, when wearer wants it off.” “Upset wearer’s composure and sense of reality whenever near hatred.” “Foster greed in anyone who knows who the ringbearer is.” All of this would be rather limited (as opposed to the targeted purposes of the 9 rings), because Sauron never intended to have the ring leave him. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suppose-i-just-sauntered-into-mordor-spoilers-expected/129016.md?page=2)