# Suppose Texas Succeeds in Seceding? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [June 20, 2022, 12:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suppose-texas-succeeds-in-seceding/966496 "2022-06-20T12:56:45Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2022, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suppose-texas-succeeds-in-seceding/966496/21 "2022-06-20T15:20:42Z")
> [@D\_Anconia](#): > > We’re not enforcing those laws very well now. Why treat Texans any differently? Because they are likely to be _actual_ freeloaders and lawbreakers. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2022, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suppose-texas-succeeds-in-seceding/966496/22 "2022-06-20T15:20:51Z")
Sorry, but neither Texas nor California are going to leave the Union. The let’s secede/let 'em secede bunch is just going to have to learn to live with people and ideas that induce uncontrollable pearl-clutching. That, or they can threaten to emigrate to countries which want useful skill sets, and thus are unlikely to take them. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2022, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suppose-texas-succeeds-in-seceding/966496/23 "2022-06-20T15:21:18Z")
**’Be careful what you wish for.'** As explained in this thread, Texans would be in a world of hurt if they get their wish to secede. Let them do it and find out. **’Be careful what you wish for.'** As a native Southern Californian and life-long West Coaster, Texas’ authoritarian, anti-democratic, theocratic, racist, xenophobic leanings are abhorrent to me. But I can see Mississippi, Alabama, and Florida wanting to join in the fun. Louisiana? Maybe. If TX, MS, AL and FL secede and join together, they’ll want a ‘land bridge’ that would require taking Louisiana or convincing it to leave. The Mississippi River is a magor waterway to the rest of the United States. If our wishes to let Texas leave and ‘don’t let the door hit you on the way out’ come true, it could start a chain reaction of unintended consequences. ---
**Author:** ![flurb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/51bf81/32.png) [@flurb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/flurb)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2022, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suppose-texas-succeeds-in-seceding/966496/24 "2022-06-20T15:29:48Z")
To reiterate @Jackmannii’s point, there will be no referendum on secession in Texas. The role of the state Republican Party convention is to give the nuttiest of the nutjobs a forum to vent their spleen. The platform adopted there has little to no influence on the actual agenda that Republicans in the Legislature will pursue. A bill calling for a secession referendum was filed in the last session of the Legislature. It had a total of six (out of 150) sponsors, was referred to committee and was never heard from again. ---
**Author:** ![D\_Anconia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@D\_Anconia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Anconia)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2022, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suppose-texas-succeeds-in-seceding/966496/25 "2022-06-20T15:49:00Z")
Cite? ---
**Author:** ![Bill\_Door](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/50afbb/32.png) [@Bill\_Door](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bill_Door)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2022, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suppose-texas-succeeds-in-seceding/966496/26 "2022-06-20T15:51:02Z")
I wish people would stop talking about this. My dick can get only so hard. ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2022, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suppose-texas-succeeds-in-seceding/966496/27 "2022-06-20T16:06:29Z")
The question that comes to my mind is: what are our obligations to US citizens living in Texas who do _not_ wish to leave the US? I suspect that Americans living in Texas cities would be vigorously opposed to secession. The first urgent task of the Republic of Texas would be implementing martial law in the cities to prevent the cities from revolting against the state. I have a hard time imagining that the US would simply sit by and watch the Texas National Guard slaughter people in Houston who call themselves US citizens. If someone ever forced the question of whether cities could secede from states, I think it would be very interesting to watch all parties rearrange their positions on the legality of secession. ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2022, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suppose-texas-succeeds-in-seceding/966496/28 "2022-06-20T16:11:55Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > I say let them go. Help them pack. Just pull NASA and military installations out. Give Texans a choice of whether to stay in Texas or move to the US up to a certain date, then revoke the US citizenship of those who don’t. Kick their sports franchises out of MLB, NHL, NBA, and NFL. Ditto the NCAA. :Build a wall around Texas. Deny Texan aircraft permission to fly over the US. Make them pay their share of the national debt. Make it clear to Mexico that we will not defend Texas. Do you think is fair to the residents of Texas cities that would lean heavily against secession? Do you think it’s safe or wise to have a Russian-aligned hostile government sitting on American borders? Because it’s very likely that Texas would soon become a Russian client state (or vice versa). Pariah states need each other. There is nothing more I’d love to see than Republicans getting their wish and separating from the country, but nothing is that simple. There are no red states and blue states. It’s city vs. rural. Don’t accept a framing that favors the “states rights” crowd. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2022, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suppose-texas-succeeds-in-seceding/966496/29 "2022-06-20T16:19:04Z")
> [@HMS\_Irruncible](#): > > Do you think is fair to the residents of Texas cities that would lean heavily against secession? They can vote in Texas’ free and fair elections. 🤡 [sarcasm] ---
**Author:** ![Red\_Wiggler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/red_wiggler/32/13190_2.png) [@Red\_Wiggler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Red_Wiggler)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2022, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suppose-texas-succeeds-in-seceding/966496/30 "2022-06-20T16:28:02Z")
There are some minor pluses in letting Texas go. National political power would swing left after a Texit, although, after running a congressional reapportionment excercise in Excel, the swing wasn’t as pronounced as I thought it might be; Repubbies could still win the White House by decisively carrying a big chunk of the battleground states. And we might convert Texas to modernization on our own. While Texas turning blue may be approaching “fusion is the energy of the future (always 30 years from now)” status, the possibility indeed exists. Much of that depends on whether Texas hispanics are turning permanently red or if Trump gains were temporary. But we would be doing a terrible thing for Texas liberals. In addition to the OP’s list, the new GOP platform calls for “a return to prayer in schools, court buildings and other government offices.” Finally, the new Texas constitution will be a malicious step into the past with how political representation is apportioned in the new republic. Remember the clown in Colorado, who wanted an Electoral College system for his state’s elections? Texas conservatives are mulling over something much worse. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2022, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suppose-texas-succeeds-in-seceding/966496/31 "2022-06-20T17:05:41Z")
> [@HMS\_Irruncible](#): > > Do you think it’s safe or wise to have a Russian-aligned hostile government sitting on American borders? This is a major issue indeed, even without Russia. A shared border with a religiously fanatic neighbor who is likely to both despise you AND question the legitimacy of your border is a terrible thing to have. Especially once Texas’ economy inevitability collapses and the leadership blames America. Unless we want Texan rockets landing on our roofs and Texan suicide bombers exploding in our streets, we would do well to avoid a partition. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2022, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suppose-texas-succeeds-in-seceding/966496/32 "2022-06-20T17:11:35Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > And it’s pretty well established that unilateral succession isn’t allowed, but I see no reason it couldn’t happen with mutual consent. IIRC _Texas v White_ said that exact same thing. Presumably the House, Senate and President would all have to agree to let them secede and thein it would take a simple Act to do so. ---
**Author:** ![Senegoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senegoid/32/6606_2.png) [@Senegoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Senegoid)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2022, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suppose-texas-succeeds-in-seceding/966496/33 "2022-06-20T17:22:54Z")
Op-ed: John Broderick Jr., former Chief Justice of New Hampshire Supreme Court, asks if a two-state solution is on the horizon: [Former Chief Justice: Is the United States headed for a two-state solution?](https://news.yahoo.com/former-chief-justice-united-states-090019803.html) > [@](#): > > Unorthodox times may require unprecedented actions. I fear that time may have arrived in America, as painful as it is to acknowledge. > > Watching our democracy and its cherished values free-fall dramatically into disrepair, distrust, and dysfunction during President Donald Trump’s time in office, culminating in an insurrection on the U.S. Capitol that he helped organize and encourage, it would be foolish to see those dark days as somehow behind us. > > Sadly, tens of millions of our fellow citizens embraced those cringe-worthy days as “making America great again.” Bridging that divisive chasm as “one nation under God” may no longer be possible or even advisable. > > [. . .] > > One of those new countries (like the one I grew up in) would constantly, albeit imperfectly, strive to address the real needs of its people, understand, harness and promote its diversity and cherish its democratic values while ever-trying to become “a more perfect union” and the other could salute aggregated power, stifle dissent, declare martial law to quell protesters, build walls at its borders, rewrite history to suit its needs, disregard realities, overturn election results on false claims of voter fraud, disenfranchise women, cut taxes for the rich, arm all its citizens and ignore the global leadership responsibilities of a great nation. > > Something needs to change and soon or a two-state solution for America may be exactly where we’re headed. Even more unsettling is that a two-state solution may be the only answer to America’s woes. I pray I’m wrong. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2022, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suppose-texas-succeeds-in-seceding/966496/34 "2022-06-20T17:46:52Z")
So … I think the odds of Texas choosing to leave the union are zero. I think they want to control the rest of the US, not escape it. But to play along with the hypothetical… Without a constitutional amendment, i believe that anyone born in the US retains American citizenship. So i think all those Texans would have dual citizenship. I’m not sure if the details of voting abroad for US citizens voting in federal elections, but i think they’d qualify. Of course, they wouldn’t be citizens of any state, so they would lose their House and Senate seats, but i think they still get to vote for the president. If they wanted to escape Texas, they wouldn’t be refugees, they could just come into the US on the basis of their passport or (dated) birth certificate, and establish residency in any US state. That would likely boost the Democratic vote in other states, based on who would be most likely to leave. The border would be complicated. I wonder how they would get along with Mexico, too. My guess is that Mexico doesn’t want them back, and they would peacefully establish a reasonable treaty. I wonder how much harder it would become for the rest of the US to import Mexican produce. There’s quite a lot produced with cheaper (legal) labor near the current border. ---
**Author:** ![nelliebly](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nelliebly/32/5422_2.png) [@nelliebly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nelliebly)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2022, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suppose-texas-succeeds-in-seceding/966496/35 "2022-06-20T18:03:13Z")
Of course this secession nonsense is merely idiot politicians posturing for their idiot constituents and nothing will come of it. However, since we’re playing “let’s pretend,” maybe for Texas to secede, they should first pay back the $10 million dollars in debt the US relieved them of back in 1844. It should be repaid in 2022 dollars, though, so about $390 million. Question: In this hypothetical, what happens to the 3 million acres of federal land in Texas? Would Texas have to buy it, or would it go with them as a parting gift? ---
**Author:** ![Roger\_That](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/roger_that/32/8505_2.png) [@Roger\_That](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Roger_That)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2022, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suppose-texas-succeeds-in-seceding/966496/36 "2022-06-20T18:10:40Z")
> [@nelliebly](#): > > what happens to the 3 million acres of federal land in Texas? Would Texas have to buy it, or would it go with them as a parting gift? It would be conceded as part of the deal. But I believe the U.S. would get concessions from the reasonable Texans as a result of our conceding the land so graciously. ---
**Author:** ![BeepKillBeep](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/9e8a1a/32.png) [@BeepKillBeep](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BeepKillBeep)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2022, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suppose-texas-succeeds-in-seceding/966496/37 "2022-06-20T18:14:34Z")
> [@nelliebly](#): > > Question: In this hypothetical, what happens to the 3 million acres of federal land in Texas? Would Texas have to buy it, or would it go with them as a parting gift? Realistically (for an unrealistic hypothetical), there would likely be a negotiated settlement on which Texas would rapidly refuse to pay. What is the USA going to do, invade? It would likely be a long standing thorn in the side as both sides would negotiate over the negotiation for decades. That would be my guess anyway. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2022, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suppose-texas-succeeds-in-seceding/966496/38 "2022-06-20T18:16:17Z")
When independent countries (Texas, Hawai’i) became states, did their government property stay as state property or did it get transferred to the US government? ---
**Author:** ![commasense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/commasense/32/3017_2.png) [@commasense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/commasense)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2022, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suppose-texas-succeeds-in-seceding/966496/39 "2022-06-20T18:18:43Z")
How long after Texas secedes before they ask the US for foreign aid? ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2022, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suppose-texas-succeeds-in-seceding/966496/40 "2022-06-20T18:22:34Z")
The day before yesterday. One good winter storm and they’re all freezing in the dark. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suppose-texas-succeeds-in-seceding/966496.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suppose-texas-succeeds-in-seceding/966496.md?page=3)