# Suppose the UK and USA fell out. **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 28, 2009, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suppose-the-uk-and-usa-fell-out/504564 "2009-07-28T17:34:42Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![chowder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/977dab/32.png) [@chowder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chowder)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2009, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suppose-the-uk-and-usa-fell-out/504564/1 "2009-07-28T17:34:42Z")
Let’s say for the sake of argument there is a major diplomatic or even a non-diplomatic incident which causes our two countries to tear up the “Special Relationship” which we have at present. Insults are hurled back and forth across the pond and short of actually going to war which we’d win;) what effect would this have on the world as a whole?. There’s little doubt that France would be on our team as well as a number of other countries who are less than well disposed towards the USA. So who is on _your_ side ---
**Author:** ![Simplicio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c37758/32.png) [@Simplicio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simplicio)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2009, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suppose-the-uk-and-usa-fell-out/504564/2 "2009-07-28T17:47:29Z")
You guys are still pissed off about those DVDs, huh. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2009, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suppose-the-uk-and-usa-fell-out/504564/3 "2009-07-28T17:50:47Z")
I don’t think it’s really possible to know how it would shake out, without knowing what caused the kerfuffle in the first place. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2009, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suppose-the-uk-and-usa-fell-out/504564/4 "2009-07-28T17:52:34Z")
Well, I figure what side Canada ends up on depends on which party is in power at the time and how jerkish the Americans are before and during the crisis. Economic necessity (i.e. a billion dollars a day in trade) likely puts us on the American side, but I expect we’d remain as neutral as possible and try to be a calming influence or something. It’d be like watching your mom in a violent argument with your brother and having mixed feelings. ---
**Author:** ![Nobody](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/94ad74/32.png) [@Nobody](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nobody)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2009, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suppose-the-uk-and-usa-fell-out/504564/5 "2009-07-28T18:20:01Z")
Israel would probably still like us (America). Then there’s that country, the name of which I can’t remember, that was about the only place where Bush got a good reception when he went there. Maybe if Kuwait is still grateful, but then that was the UN of which Britain is a part of also. ---
**Author:** ![Simplicio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c37758/32.png) [@Simplicio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simplicio)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2009, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suppose-the-uk-and-usa-fell-out/504564/6 "2009-07-28T18:22:43Z")
> [@Nobody](#): > > Israel would probably still like us (America). > Then there’s that country, the name of which I can’t remember, that was about the only place where Bush got a good reception when he went there. Kosovo maybe? ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2009, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suppose-the-uk-and-usa-fell-out/504564/7 "2009-07-28T18:23:08Z")
In a war England wouldn’t stand a chance against the US. It’d be pretty bad for the world economy as a whole. If a war broke out it would be laughably easy to blockade the British mainland. Canada would probably STFU and be VERY VERY VERY quiet. ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2009, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suppose-the-uk-and-usa-fell-out/504564/8 "2009-07-28T18:25:12Z")
> [@mswas](#): > > In a war England wouldn’t stand a chance against the US. It’d be pretty bad for the world economy as a whole. > > If a war broke out it would be laughably easy to blockade the British mainland. Canada would probably STFU and be VERY VERY VERY quiet. War is specifically excluded by the OP. Though _absent_ a war, I’m not sure why it matters who’s on whose side. Nobody is going to cut off trade with America just because Britian is pissed at us, and the US wouldn’t have enough clout to get other countries to stop dealing with the UK. ---
**Author:** ![wolfman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/a8b319/32.png) [@wolfman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfman)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2009, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suppose-the-uk-and-usa-fell-out/504564/9 "2009-07-28T18:27:35Z")
Japan and much of the Pacific Rim would probably be with the U.S. out of economic necessity as well. China is a hell of a wild card though, and I suspect would chortle gleefully while playing both sides. ---
**Author:** ![Regallag\_The\_Axe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/regallag_the_axe/32/445_2.png) [@Regallag\_The\_Axe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Regallag_The_Axe)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2009, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suppose-the-uk-and-usa-fell-out/504564/10 "2009-07-28T18:43:12Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > Well, I figure what side Canada ends up on depends on which party is in power at the time and how jerkish the Americans are before and during the crisis. Economic necessity (i.e. a billion dollars a day in trade) likely puts us on the American side, but I expect we’d remain as neutral as possible and try to be a calming influence or something. It’d be like watching your mom in a violent argument with your brother and having mixed feelings. This was my first thought on reading the OP. Does Canada go with its largest trading partner, or the home of its head of state? Another though just occurred to me: What happens to Afghanistan? If the British or American troops all bugger out overnight, what would happen? I imagine it wouldn’t be good, either way. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2009, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suppose-the-uk-and-usa-fell-out/504564/11 "2009-07-28T21:29:01Z")
> [@Regallag\_The\_Axe](#): > > Another though just occurred to me: What happens to Afghanistan? If the British or American troops all bugger out overnight, what would happen? I imagine it wouldn’t be good, either way. Why, it could degenerate into an oppressive violent regime. In other words, 1998 or so. ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2009, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suppose-the-uk-and-usa-fell-out/504564/12 "2009-07-28T21:34:05Z")
> [@begbert2](#): > > War is specifically excluded by the OP. > > Though _absent_ a war, I’m not sure why it matters who’s on whose side. Nobody is going to cut off trade with America just because Britian is pissed at us, and the US wouldn’t have enough clout to get other countries to stop dealing with the UK. It would drive the UK closer to the EU as they would no longer be caught straddling between Europe and the US. ---
**Author:** ![AppallingGael](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b9bd4f/32.png) [@AppallingGael](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AppallingGael)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2009, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suppose-the-uk-and-usa-fell-out/504564/13 "2009-07-28T22:05:16Z")
> [@Nobody](#): > > Then there’s that country, the name of which I can’t remember, that was about the only place where Bush got a good reception when he went there. They _would_ have been on our side, until\* you\* ruined it. ---
**Author:** ![Nobody](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/94ad74/32.png) [@Nobody](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nobody)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2009, 10:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suppose-the-uk-and-usa-fell-out/504564/14 "2009-07-28T22:12:14Z")
> [@AppallingGael](#): > > They _would_ have been on our side, until\* you\* ruined it. 😃 How can I ruin anything? I’m a nobody. ---
**Author:** ![Markxxx](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/5daacb/32.png) [@Markxxx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Markxxx)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2009, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suppose-the-uk-and-usa-fell-out/504564/15 "2009-07-28T23:21:09Z")
You could make a case that France would be on the side of the UK. The main reason France has always had issues with Britian is because of the close ties of the UK and the USA. The close ties were incompatible with the European Community was the reason France originally blocked Great Britian from joining (what is now) the EU. Canada would be with America. Canada is totally dependent on the goodwill of the USA for its existance, both politically and economically. The UK and France like to think of themselves as major world players, but take away their nukes and they are nothing. The EU as a group is a powerhouse, but the individual countries aren’t much. I think Japan falling out with the US would have a much more interesting senerio. ---
**Author:** ![Kimmy\_Gibbler](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Kimmy\_Gibbler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimmy_Gibbler)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2009, 11:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suppose-the-uk-and-usa-fell-out/504564/16 "2009-07-28T23:22:40Z")
An EU with a more fully integrated Britain, coupled with coöperation with Russia and China, would present a potentially insurmountable challenge to American hegemony. That said, the OP’s question is nonsense. It’s hard to imagine what, short of open hostilities, would produce such a state of affairs, and American and British and Continental business interests would certainly prevent it from coming to pass. Even if Gordon Brown took a dump on Old Glory or if Barry punched Brenda square in the face. We don’t sacrifice billions of dollars in trade for petty affronts to dignity. ---
**Author:** ![Markxxx](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/5daacb/32.png) [@Markxxx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Markxxx)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2009, 11:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suppose-the-uk-and-usa-fell-out/504564/17 "2009-07-28T23:23:24Z")
You could make a case that France would be on the side of the UK. The main reason France has always had issues with Britian is because of the close ties of the UK and the USA. The close ties were incompatible with the European Community was the reason France originally blocked Great Britian from joining (what is now) the EU. Canada would be with America. Canada is totally dependent on the goodwill of the USA for its existance, both politically and economically. The UK and France like to think of themselves as major world players, but take away their nukes and they are nothing. The EU as a group is a powerhouse, but the individual countries aren’t much. I think Japan falling out with the US would have a much more interesting senerio. ---
**Author:** ![Winnipeg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/ec9cab/32.png) [@Winnipeg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Winnipeg)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2009, 11:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suppose-the-uk-and-usa-fell-out/504564/18 "2009-07-28T23:38:56Z")
> [@Markxxx](#): > > The UK and France like to think of themselves as major world players, but take away their nukes and they are nothing. The EU as a group is a powerhouse, but the individual countries aren’t much. :smack: Ignorance is Bliss. ---
**Author:** ![Revenant\_Threshold](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f1d935/32.png) [@Revenant\_Threshold](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revenant_Threshold)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2009, 11:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suppose-the-uk-and-usa-fell-out/504564/19 "2009-07-28T23:46:58Z")
> [@Kimmy\_Gibbler](#): > > That said, the OP’s question is nonsense. It’s hard to imagine what, short of open hostilities, would produce such a state of affairs, and American and British and Continental business interests would certainly prevent it from coming to pass. Even if Gordon Brown took a dump on Old Glory or if Barry punched Brenda square in the face. We don’t sacrifice billions of dollars in trade for petty affronts to dignity. Yeah, seriously. Whatever would have to happen to change the relationship so quickly would have to be huge and pretty damn bad, and I very much doubt that whatever then happens with other countries wouldn’t depend on who exactly mucked things up. ---
**Author:** ![cckerberos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f0a364/32.png) [@cckerberos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cckerberos)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2009, 12:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suppose-the-uk-and-usa-fell-out/504564/20 "2009-07-29T00:20:37Z")
> [@Kimmy\_Gibbler](#): > > An EU with a more fully integrated Britain, coupled with coöperation with Russia and China, would present a potentially insurmountable challenge to American hegemony. Sure, but such an alliance is perhaps even more unlikely than the OP’s scenario. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suppose-the-uk-and-usa-fell-out/504564.md?page=2)