# Supposed video of secret Mormon temple rituals **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [October 22, 2012, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/supposed-video-of-secret-mormon-temple-rituals/638552 "2012-10-22T18:58:37Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Ferret\_Herder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e47774/32.png) [@Ferret\_Herder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ferret_Herder)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2012, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/supposed-video-of-secret-mormon-temple-rituals/638552/21 "2012-10-22T20:00:33Z")
> [@hajario](#): > > Which would seem to indicate that they don’t believe in an all-knowing god because they have to do the ritual to get in and not knowing the ritual keeps them out. I imagine that I am over-simplifying things though. I assume not knowing the ritual means that you’ve shown you’re insufficiently devout. Like if you really cared about your salvation, you’d know that stuff and put in the time to go through the rituals on Earth, that kind of thing. I agree, though - criticizing the use of “Elohim” is on the same level as people who say that Muslims calling God “Allah” means they’re different. ---
**Author:** ![pythonzzz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/9e8a1a/32.png) [@pythonzzz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pythonzzz)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2012, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/supposed-video-of-secret-mormon-temple-rituals/638552/22 "2012-10-22T20:00:47Z")
> [@Spud](#): > > I’ve heard people say “God walks among us.” And I bet he gets mistaken for George Burns a lot. No, he’s Morgan Freeman. Duhhh… ---
**Author:** ![Erdosain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/erdosain/32/7284_2.png) [@Erdosain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Erdosain)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2012, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/supposed-video-of-secret-mormon-temple-rituals/638552/23 "2012-10-22T20:01:26Z")
If you forget the secret handshakes when you die (and you are worthy of getting into heaven) someone (an angel probably) will help jog your memory. No one would be kept out for a simple memory error. The handshakes and passwords are just a symbol really. I wouldn’t be able to get in to Mormon heaven (presuming it was real) even though I know all the signs and have received a new name. God wouldn’t allow it. It’s easy to get hung up on all the passwords because they’re so weird, but at the end of the day it’s still “Good people go to heaven, bad people don’t.” The captioning wasn’t too bad after I went back and watched the whole thing. Exceptions: 1. Elohim is simply what Mormons call “God the Father.” But he does lives near to Kolob! 2. Ethnicity is not germane to any temple work. 3. Mormons aren’t planning to take over the US government. They do believe they’ll be in charge after the apocalypse, which probably every church does. ---
**Author:** ![davidm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidm/32/225_2.png) [@davidm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidm)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2012, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/supposed-video-of-secret-mormon-temple-rituals/638552/24 "2012-10-22T20:04:34Z")
So if I watched one of these videos carefully, and learned the password and handshake, I couldn’t sneak in? ☹ ---
**Author:** ![Erdosain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/erdosain/32/7284_2.png) [@Erdosain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Erdosain)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2012, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/supposed-video-of-secret-mormon-temple-rituals/638552/25 "2012-10-22T20:05:56Z")
> [@davidm](#): > > So when they baptize deceased non-Mormons, and those people then arrive in Heaven, do they somehow know the passwords and handshakes? If you convert after you’re dead, you’ll be shown the correct passwords and handshakes and informed of your new name so you can pass into heaven. There’s not a lot of official doctrine on this point, but it’s just common sense. ---
**Author:** ![Erdosain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/erdosain/32/7284_2.png) [@Erdosain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Erdosain)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2012, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/supposed-video-of-secret-mormon-temple-rituals/638552/26 "2012-10-22T20:08:34Z")
> [@davidm](#): > > So if I watched one of these videos carefully, and learned the password and handshake, I couldn’t sneak in? ☹ No, you need a new name. That’s one of the passwords. And, to answer your earlier question, the veil ceremony is almost completely lifted from Masonry. They even used to do something called the “Five Points of Fellowship” at the veil, which is used in Masonic rituals. ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2012, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/supposed-video-of-secret-mormon-temple-rituals/638552/27 "2012-10-22T20:09:49Z")
Good grief, what a bunch of unmitigated nonsense. Do they also have a sign that says “no girlz aloud”? I find church rituals to be bizarre in general, but this one is truly screwy. ---
**Author:** ![davidm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidm/32/225_2.png) [@davidm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidm)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2012, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/supposed-video-of-secret-mormon-temple-rituals/638552/28 "2012-10-22T20:10:38Z")
> [@Erdosain](#): > > If you convert after you’re dead, you’ll be shown the correct passwords and handshakes and informed of your new name so you can pass into heaven. There’s not a lot of official doctrine on this point, but it’s just common sense. So I’ll just enjoy my wanton life of tea and coffee and make sure that the Mormons get my name after I die. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Le\_Ministre\_de\_l\_au-dela](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/le_ministre_de_l_au-dela/32/12181_2.png) [@Le\_Ministre\_de\_l\_au-dela](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Le_Ministre_de_l_au-dela)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2012, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/supposed-video-of-secret-mormon-temple-rituals/638552/29 "2012-10-22T20:29:29Z")
> [@davidm](#): > > So I’ll just enjoy my wanton life of tea and coffee and make sure that the Mormons get my name after I die. 😛 If Heaven doesn’t involve coffee, I don’t see how it would much differ from Hell. ---
**Author:** ![Sicks\_Ate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/258eb7/32.png) [@Sicks\_Ate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sicks_Ate)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2012, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/supposed-video-of-secret-mormon-temple-rituals/638552/30 "2012-10-22T20:38:29Z")
> [@Chefguy](#): > > Good grief, what a bunch of unmitigated nonsense. Do they also have a sign that says “no girlz aloud”? I find church rituals to be bizarre in general, but this one is truly screwy. > [@davidm](#): > > So I’ll just enjoy my wanton life of tea and coffee and make sure that the Mormons get my name after I die. 😛 > [@Le\_Ministre\_de\_l\_au-dela](#): > > If Heaven doesn’t involve coffee, I don’t see how it would much differ from Hell. “Swine!” - Jesus (Paraphrased) ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2012, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/supposed-video-of-secret-mormon-temple-rituals/638552/31 "2012-10-22T21:10:09Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > That sounds very Ancient Egyptian in its way. Which isn’t surprising since a lot of it is allegedly cribbed from Masonic ritual which has Ancient Egyptian overtones. ---
**Author:** ![GrandWino](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grandwino/32/67_2.png) [@GrandWino](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GrandWino)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2012, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/supposed-video-of-secret-mormon-temple-rituals/638552/32 "2012-10-22T21:27:56Z")
> [@Erdosain](#): > > Just from what I saw, it said the children are being “used” for baptisms in the basement, which is simply stupid. Former Mormon here. No ill will towards the church, and I have a lot of family that are still very active members. When I was a kid, early teens, I was taken on a youth group bus trip to the temple in Bellevue, WA and we were baptized for the dead. I had no idea that was what we were going to be doing until after I got there. My mother has zero recollection of this being communicated to her ahead of time. Now, in the church’s defense - I might not have paid much attention to things that were said ahead of time, and just thought it was a cool trip to visit the temple. But we were certainly used for baptizing the dead, and nobody brought any names with them - the names were taken from a little computer display next to the baptismal font. I was baptized for a dozen or so people, one right after the other. Dunk after dunk. ---
**Author:** ![Erdosain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/erdosain/32/7284_2.png) [@Erdosain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Erdosain)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2012, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/supposed-video-of-secret-mormon-temple-rituals/638552/33 "2012-10-22T22:05:22Z")
> [@Bob Ducca](#): > > Former Mormon here. No ill will towards the church, and I have a lot of family that are still very active members. > > When I was a kid, early teens, I was taken on a youth group bus trip to the temple in Bellevue, WA and we were baptized for the dead. > > I had no idea that was what we were going to be doing until after I got there. My mother has zero recollection of this being communicated to her ahead of time. > > Now, in the church’s defense - I might not have paid much attention to things that were said ahead of time, and just thought it was a cool trip to visit the temple. But we were certainly used for baptizing the dead, and nobody brought any names with them - the names were taken from a little computer display next to the baptismal font. I was baptized for a dozen or so people, one right after the other. Dunk after dunk. But did you feel used? I think the Baptisms for the Dead are pretty benign, once you get past the weird oxen under the font. You put on a white jumpsuit and get dunked in an overheated tub while someone recites a bunch of unpronounceable names. Trauma factor (IME) is pretty minimal. To me “used” implies the Church is getting something out of these kids, when really its only interest in the ceremony is a shared indoctrination experience. ---
**Author:** ![DocCathode](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doccathode/32/18773_2.png) [@DocCathode](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DocCathode)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2012, 10:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/supposed-video-of-secret-mormon-temple-rituals/638552/34 "2012-10-22T22:38:29Z")
Last time I checked, it was just one of the many names used for G-d in the OT. I believe it translates to “Bright Ones”. G-d has plenty of names in the OT and Jewish prayer. ---
**Author:** ![Anne\_Neville](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Anne\_Neville](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anne_Neville)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2012, 11:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/supposed-video-of-secret-mormon-temple-rituals/638552/35 "2012-10-22T23:52:25Z")
> [@Le\_Ministre\_de\_l\_au-dela](#): > > If Heaven doesn’t involve coffee, I don’t see how it would much differ from Hell. I hear there is also Jello in Mormon heaven. I’ll take my chances with outer darkness, I can’t see how it could be that much worse. Outer darkness actually sounds kind of interesting, to an astronomer at least… ---
**Author:** ![sisu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/df705f/32.png) [@sisu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sisu)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2012, 12:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/supposed-video-of-secret-mormon-temple-rituals/638552/36 "2012-10-23T00:49:09Z")
> [@Erdosain](#): > > Also, once you are pulled through the veil, you can see the old guy whose hand you were practicing the secret handshakes on. So there is absolutely no question of anyone thinking it’s actually God. OH it’s the Wizard! ---
**Author:** ![Erdosain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/erdosain/32/7284_2.png) [@Erdosain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Erdosain)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2012, 12:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/supposed-video-of-secret-mormon-temple-rituals/638552/37 "2012-10-23T00:50:50Z")
> [@DocCathode](#): > > Last time I checked, it was just one of the many names used for G-d in the OT. I believe it translates to “Bright Ones”. G-d has plenty of names in the OT and Jewish prayer. Yes, Elohim is one of the Hebrew words for God used in the Old Testament, starting in Genesis. Joseph Smith was working on his own translation of the Bible and no doubt got the idea from his work there. Mormons are unique though, as far as I know, in assigning “Elohim” to God the Father and “Jehovah” to Jesus Christ. I believe most other religions (all?) treat the names as interchangeable. Maybe someone more familiar with the topic can tell me if that is true or not. I don’t have a cite for this, but it seems apparent to me that Joseph Smith was fascinated by the fact that Elohim is a plural noun (though used singularly in the Bible). He eventually used the plural in his “translation” of the Book of Abraham: “And they (the Gods) said: Let there be light; and there was light.” ([Abraham 4:3](http://www.lds.org/scriptures/pgp/abr/4?lang=eng)) ---
**Author:** ![TokyoBayer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tokyobayer/32/13989_2.png) [@TokyoBayer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TokyoBayer)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2012, 1:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/supposed-video-of-secret-mormon-temple-rituals/638552/38 "2012-10-23T01:25:19Z")
> [@Chefguy](#): > > Good grief, what a bunch of unmitigated nonsense. Do they also have a sign that says “no girlz aloud”? I find church rituals to be bizarre in general, but this one is truly screwy. I have to thank the OP. I was having a horrible morning because a certain four year old was acting like a, um, four year old. After watching the video, and knowing that no more brain cells will be wasted listening to that drivel again put my present irritations into much better perspective. > [@Erdosain](#): > > The handshakes and passwords are just a symbol really. Adding to this, of course, they are just symbolic but the more interesting question is what purpose do the symbols serve? Why these particular symbols and why would Mormons adapt them? As pointed out above, the major parts of the Mormon ceremony were simply lifted from the Mason ceremony. Joseph Smith wrote the temple ceremony shortly after becoming a Mason. The temple ceremony served as a secret society within the Mormon church to aid Joseph Smith in the secret practice of polygamy, something he and the top leadership were denying not only to the outside world, but to Mormons as well. Having secret handshakes and such to distinguish true members of secret societies was a good idea back in the pre-Internet days. Masons from one lodge could identify members who they did not personally know. However, it’s silly to expect that the Gods (plural, as per Mormon doctrine) and angels would really need to use them symbolic or not. This is the answer to the question if what happens in the Mormon temple _sacred_ or _secret_. It’s secret because the purpose was to hide illegal and immoral behavior. ---
**Author:** ![TokyoBayer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tokyobayer/32/13989_2.png) [@TokyoBayer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TokyoBayer)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2012, 2:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/supposed-video-of-secret-mormon-temple-rituals/638552/39 "2012-10-23T02:18:04Z")
> [@Erdosain](#): > > Yes, Elohim is one of the Hebrew words for God used in the Old Testament, starting in Genesis. Joseph Smith was working on his own translation of the Bible and no doubt got the idea from his work there. Mormons are unique though, as far as I know, in assigning “Elohim” to God the Father and “Jehovah” to Jesus Christ. I believe most other religions (all?) treat the names as interchangeable. Maybe someone more familiar with the topic can tell me if that is true or not. > > I don’t have a cite for this, but it seems apparent to me that Joseph Smith was fascinated by the fact that Elohim is a plural noun (though used singularly in the Bible). He eventually used the plural in his “translation” of the Book of Abraham: > > “And they (the Gods) said: Let there be light; and there was light.” ([Abraham 4:3](http://www.lds.org/scriptures/pgp/abr/4?lang=eng)) Grrr. The disadvantage of living in a small house is that you can’t keep all of your book. Since I don’t have my copy of Karen Armstrong’s classic _A History of God_, I’ll have to dig things up on Wiki. According to “[them](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elohim)” Elohim can be either plural or singular. The theory which Armstrong presents in outlined here > [@](#): > > The documentary hypothesis, (DH) (sometimes called the Wellhausen hypothesis), holds that the Torah was derived from originally independent, parallel and complete narratives, which were subsequently combined into the current form by a series of redactors (editors). The number of these is usually set at four, but this is not an essential part of the hypothesis. The source Elohist (E) presents a more formal relationship with a God. Joseph Smith began his translation/revision to the Bible before he began studying Hebrew, and of course not only authored or helped author the Book of Mormon but also wrote the Book of Moses prior to his Hebrew studies. The Book of Abraham was concurrent as well as Joseph Smith’s evolution from a devout monotheist to a radical polytheist. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Me](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d2c977/32.png) [@Mr.Me](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Me)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2012, 3:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/supposed-video-of-secret-mormon-temple-rituals/638552/40 "2012-10-23T03:56:59Z")
> [@davidm](#): > > So, after you die, if you don’t know, or screw up, the handshake or password, do you just stand there for all eternity watching others bypass you, do you go to hell, do you disappear in a puff of smoke, or what? You get [cast into the Gorge of Eternal Peril](http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=cV0tCphFMr8#t=123s), of course. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/supposed-video-of-secret-mormon-temple-rituals/638552.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/supposed-video-of-secret-mormon-temple-rituals/638552.md?page=3)