# Supreme Court \[declines to hear\] same sex marriage cases.\[plus further developments (Ed.)\] **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 6, 2014, 1:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/supreme-court-declines-to-hear-same-sex-marriage-cases-plus-further-developments-ed/700544 "2014-10-06T13:50:23Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2014, 11:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/supreme-court-declines-to-hear-same-sex-marriage-cases-plus-further-developments-ed/700544/181 "2014-10-13T11:49:51Z")
> [@Muffin](#): > > Where it will be getting interesting for you in the next few years will be in the monkeywrenching that the RRR can do when the courts are dealing with same sex divorce involving conflict of laws. For example, in the UK, instead of having marriage for all, they have separate but substantially similar regimes for opposite-sex couples (marriage) and same-sex couples (civil partnership). Update: Scotland has passed legislation that shortly will permit same sex marriage and, for those who wish it, conversion from same-sex civil partnership to same-sex marriage. ---
**Author:** ![ctnguy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@ctnguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ctnguy)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2014, 12:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/supreme-court-declines-to-hear-same-sex-marriage-cases-plus-further-developments-ed/700544/182 "2014-10-13T12:54:32Z")
> [@Muffin](#): > > Where it will be getting interesting for you in the next few years will be in the monkeywrenching that the RRR can do when the courts are dealing with same sex divorce involving conflict of laws. For example, in the UK, instead of having marriage for all, they have separate but substantially similar regimes for opposite-sex couples (marriage) and same-sex couples (civil partnership). > [@Muffin](#): > > Update: Scotland has passed legislation that shortly will permit same sex marriage and, for those who wish it, conversion from same-sex civil partnership to same-sex marriage. Not to mention that similar legislation already came into force in England and Wales in March. By the end of this year Northern Ireland will be the only part of the UK that does not allow same-sex marriage. ([wiki](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Same-sex_marriage_in_the_United_Kingdom)) ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2014, 1:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/supreme-court-declines-to-hear-same-sex-marriage-cases-plus-further-developments-ed/700544/183 "2014-10-13T13:42:00Z")
Thanks, ctnguy. ---
**Author:** ![TokyoBayer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tokyobayer/32/13989_2.png) [@TokyoBayer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TokyoBayer)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2014, 1:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/supreme-court-declines-to-hear-same-sex-marriage-cases-plus-further-developments-ed/700544/184 "2014-10-13T13:48:56Z")
I’m not sure if there still a debate, but it looks like [Alaska is in](http://www.hrc.org/blog/entry/marriage-equality-arrives-in-alaska). As the article points out, this makes 30 states, plus Washington DC. > [@](#): > > The decisions of the past week will likely soon have implications for the remaining states in the Ninth, Fourth and Tenth circuits: Arizona, Kansas, Montana, South Carolina, and Wyoming. All of the states have challenges in court, which should be make the decisions soon. What will happen the the remaining states? ---
**Author:** ![Hector\_St\_Clare](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b5ac83/32.png) [@Hector\_St\_Clare](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hector_St_Clare)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2014, 2:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/supreme-court-declines-to-hear-same-sex-marriage-cases-plus-further-developments-ed/700544/185 "2014-10-13T14:16:37Z")
> [@Steve\_MB](#): > > Unlikely, given that the 15% would come almost entirely out of their portion of the 100%. Not really. About 30% of Democrats oppose same sex marriage (it’s 55% of Republicans). ---
**Author:** ![Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/46a35a/32.png) [@Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tim_T-Bonham.net)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2014, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/supreme-court-declines-to-hear-same-sex-marriage-cases-plus-further-developments-ed/700544/186 "2014-10-13T19:10:50Z")
> [@TokyoBayer](#): > > As the article points out, this makes 30 states, plus Washington DC. All of the states have challenges in court, which should be make the decisions soon. > > What will happen the the remaining states? It seems like the Supreme Court sent a pretty clear signal by declining to even hear the challenges in the recent 5 cases. Unless some Circuit Court rule against marriage equality, I expect the Supreme Court will just continue to declining to hear them for a while. As for the remaining states, every single one of them has a lawsuit pending where same-sex couples are challenging their states’ law banning same-sex marriage. Eventually they will get their day in court. I expect that somewhere they will get a troglodyte judge who rules against same-sex marriage, but that will be apealed, and the Circuit Court will likely overturn it. ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2014, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/supreme-court-declines-to-hear-same-sex-marriage-cases-plus-further-developments-ed/700544/187 "2014-10-13T19:21:16Z")
> [@t-bonham@scc.net](#): > > It seems like the Supreme Court sent a pretty clear signal by declining to even hear the challenges in the recent 5 cases. Unless some Circuit Court rule against marriage equality, I expect the Supreme Court will just continue to declining to hear them for a while. > > As for the remaining states, every single one of them has a lawsuit pending where same-sex couples are challenging their states’ law banning same-sex marriage. Eventually they will get their day in court. I expect that somewhere they will get a troglodyte judge who rules against same-sex marriage, but that will be apealed, and the Circuit Court will likely overturn it. That’s already happened. What hasn’t happened yet is a ruling in a more conservative Circuit that could well rule the other way. A ruling is due any day now in the 6th (MI, OH, KY and TN) that will probably go pro-SSM but might not. Arguments will will soon be held in the 5th which covers TX, LA and MS for a case each in TX and LA that have been combined. That is the one that could very well turn the tide. ---
**Author:** ![Kolak\_of\_Twilo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kolak_of_twilo/32/73_2.png) [@Kolak\_of\_Twilo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kolak_of_Twilo)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2014, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/supreme-court-declines-to-hear-same-sex-marriage-cases-plus-further-developments-ed/700544/188 "2014-10-13T22:52:29Z")
> [@hajario](#): > > That’s already happened. > > What hasn’t happened yet is a ruling in a more conservative Circuit that could well rule the other way. A ruling is due any day now in the 6th (MI, OH, KY and TN) that will probably go pro-SSM but might not. Arguments will will soon be held in the 5th which covers TX, LA and MS for a case each in TX and LA that have been combined. That is the one that could very well turn the tide. I’m not quite following your meaning; are you saying the 5th Circuit is made up of more conservative judges who may rule against SSM? Or is the 6th more likely to do that? ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2014, 11:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/supreme-court-declines-to-hear-same-sex-marriage-cases-plus-further-developments-ed/700544/189 "2014-10-13T23:23:10Z")
> [@Kolak\_of\_Twilo](#): > > I’m not quite following your meaning; are you saying the 5th Circuit is made up of more conservative judges who may rule against SSM? Or is the 6th more likely to do that? From my reading, the 6th is more conservative and could go anti-SSM. They are due to issue a ruling soon. The 5th tends to be very conservative. They are about to hear arguments so their ruling is a ways off. ---
**Author:** ![SpoilerVirgin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/4491bb/32.png) [@SpoilerVirgin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SpoilerVirgin)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2014, 11:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/supreme-court-declines-to-hear-same-sex-marriage-cases-plus-further-developments-ed/700544/190 "2014-10-13T23:51:50Z")
Just when you thought the pace of these court decisions was picking up, a [new species of snail has been named in honor of same-sex marriage](http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/10/13/gay-marriage-snail-aegista-diversifamilia_n_5977556.html?utm_hp_ref=green). ---
**Author:** ![TokyoBayer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tokyobayer/32/13989_2.png) [@TokyoBayer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TokyoBayer)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2014, 12:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/supreme-court-declines-to-hear-same-sex-marriage-cases-plus-further-developments-ed/700544/191 "2014-10-14T12:40:01Z")
Meet [Jeffrey Sutton](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeffrey_Sutton), the 6th Circuit Court of Appeals judge who is thought to have [the deciding vote](http://www.buzzfeed.com/chrisgeidner/four-states-same-sex-marriage-bans-up-in-the-air-after-three#2037xvu) on the SSM cases which could be announced at any time. > [@](#): > > The fate of legal decisions about marriage for same-sex couples in four states likely rests, for now at least, in the hands of one federal judge. > > The 6th Circuit Court of Appeals heard hours of oral arguments Wednesday about cases in four states — all concerned either bans on marriages for same-sex couples or the recognition of those marriages. And the question of whether the court will join the other federal courts to rule on those issues likely sits the hands of Judge Jeffrey Sutton. Pundits have said other two judges are likely to [split their opinions](http://www.buzzfeed.com/chrisgeidner/four-states-same-sex-marriage-bans-up-in-the-air-after-three#2037xvu). > [@](#): > > Judge Martha Craig Daughtrey, nominated by President Clinton in 1993, sparred forcefully with the various lawyers defending the states’ bans — asking repeatedly how claimed state interests relating to procreation were furthered by excluding same-sex couples from marriage. Judge Deborah Cook, another nominee of President George W. Bush on the other hand, spoke the least during the arguments but raised issues generally sympathetic to the states when she did join in the fray. Some point out that his track record isn’t [particularly hopeful](http://www.courier-journal.com/story/news/2014/07/23/kentucky-gay-marriage-appeal-heard-panel-conservative-judges/13016615/) for those who support SSM. > [@](#): > > That judge, Jeffrey S. Sutton, writing in March in Harvard Law Review, said, “Count me as a skeptic when it comes to the idea that this day and age suffers from a shortage of constitutional rights.” > > Sutton also wrote an opinion in 2012 for the 6th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals reinstating a suit filed by a graduate counseling student and evangelical Christian who was expelled from Eastern Michigan University when she refused to work with clients in same-sex relationships. However, the buzzfeed article analyzed his questions during the oral arguments. > [@](#): > > Sutton was left in the middle, speaking positively about same-sex couples but focusing primarily on three questions: one that was, effectively, a procedural question of “hierarchy” and whether the appeals court is bound by an earlier Supreme Court decision against same-sex couples’ marriage rights and two that were, for the most part, policy issues that could play into his ultimate decision in the cases. The article goes through to list some of the concerns he raised, including if _Baker_ is still the controlling precedent. The writer believed that Sutton may have tried to hold out, waiting to see which way SCOTUS goes. Now that’s decided, it will be interesting to see how he decides. ---
**Author:** ![Knorf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/58956e/32.png) [@Knorf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Knorf)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2014, 2:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/supreme-court-declines-to-hear-same-sex-marriage-cases-plus-further-developments-ed/700544/192 "2014-10-14T14:12:27Z")
> [@etv78](#): > > Knorf: I believe Goldwater voiced his warning LONG before '94. He did, but the '94 quote was the clearest. ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2014, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/supreme-court-declines-to-hear-same-sex-marriage-cases-plus-further-developments-ed/700544/193 "2014-10-14T15:29:32Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > Even if you don’t agree they’re already there: Keeping that demographic voting for you only takes a superficial reason, and those are pitifully easy to dream up. If the “God, guns, and gays” platform is now missing the \*gays \*part, so what, they can easily replace it with \*Mexicans \*by drumming up immigration fears. You may have noticed that happening at about the same rate as gay-bashing has subsided. The beauty of it is that nativism is always effective and hard to combat. If anything that would be a worse political move than staying anti gay. ---
**Author:** ![OttoDaFe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ottodafe/32/356_2.png) [@OttoDaFe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OttoDaFe)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2014, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/supreme-court-declines-to-hear-same-sex-marriage-cases-plus-further-developments-ed/700544/194 "2014-10-14T17:53:23Z")
But if you put in effective controls that screen out [DEL]likely Democratic[/DEL] ineligible voters, it doesn’t matter whom you piss off. ---
**Author:** ![yellowjacketcoder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/4bbf92/32.png) [@yellowjacketcoder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yellowjacketcoder)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2014, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/supreme-court-declines-to-hear-same-sex-marriage-cases-plus-further-developments-ed/700544/195 "2014-10-15T20:32:10Z")
Minor update: Idaho went legal today courtesy of the Ninth circuit, and tomorrow is a big day as the federal judge hearing the Arizona case demanded arguments by then (and is anticipated to rule tomorrow? I don’t know my jurisprudence) and the Wyoming case is scheduled for hearing tomorrow as well. Apparently the Sixth circuit is due to rule soon, although I can’t find out when, if such information has even been released. ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2014, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/supreme-court-declines-to-hear-same-sex-marriage-cases-plus-further-developments-ed/700544/196 "2014-10-15T20:36:20Z")
> [@yellowjacketcoder](#): > > Apparently the Sixth circuit is due to rule soon, although I can’t find out when, if such information has even been released. I believe that the do their releases for the week on Fridays so it could be in two days or the week after that or the week after that… ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2014, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/supreme-court-declines-to-hear-same-sex-marriage-cases-plus-further-developments-ed/700544/197 "2014-10-15T20:39:23Z")
> [@hajario](#): > > I believe that the do their releases for the week on Fridays so it could be in two days or the week after that or the week after that… Actually, I just read a cite that said that it could come at any time. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2014, 11:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/supreme-court-declines-to-hear-same-sex-marriage-cases-plus-further-developments-ed/700544/198 "2014-10-15T23:22:48Z")
If the Sixth decides for the states, the SCOTUS will _have_ to take it up, right? ---
**Author:** ![Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/46a35a/32.png) [@Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tim_T-Bonham.net)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2014, 12:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/supreme-court-declines-to-hear-same-sex-marriage-cases-plus-further-developments-ed/700544/199 "2014-10-16T00:45:23Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > If the Sixth decides for the states, the SCOTUS will _have_ to take it up, right? Yes, pretty much. But it would likely not be heard by the Court until next Spring at the earliest. The Supreme Court could duck the issue for a while, by denying cert to an appeal of a 6th Circuit ruling against SSM, finding that there was some minor difference that distinguishes that case from the other Circuit rulings. But I don’t think that is likely. The arguments in all these cases are pretty much the same (which the SC showed when they did all 5 of those previous cases at once). ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2014, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/supreme-court-declines-to-hear-same-sex-marriage-cases-plus-further-developments-ed/700544/200 "2014-10-17T16:50:59Z")
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