# Supreme Court \[declines to hear\] same sex marriage cases.\[plus further developments (Ed.)\] **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 6, 2014, 1:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/supreme-court-declines-to-hear-same-sex-marriage-cases-plus-further-developments-ed/700544 "2014-10-06T13:50:23Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 40
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2015, 2:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/supreme-court-declines-to-hear-same-sex-marriage-cases-plus-further-developments-ed/700544/781 "2015-06-30T14:15:30Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > They knew they would be offering licenses to couples whose marriages might be inconsistent with their personal views. Exactly. And if they couldn’t do that, they wouldn’t have applied for the job. We won this battle, **RNALTB** , and we can choose to be gracious winners or not. I choose the former. That is all. ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2015, 2:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/supreme-court-declines-to-hear-same-sex-marriage-cases-plus-further-developments-ed/700544/782 "2015-06-30T14:15:53Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Those on the job now didn’t know that when they signed up. That’s fine. Now that the job is slightly different, if they don’t want it anymore, they can quit. Nobody is forcing them to do anything, let them do nothing if they want. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2015, 2:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/supreme-court-declines-to-hear-same-sex-marriage-cases-plus-further-developments-ed/700544/783 "2015-06-30T14:17:11Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Alternatively, we could be civil about the whole thing and give people time to adjust. Clerks: You need to issue marriage licenses to everyone or find another job. If you choose to not issue licenses to same-sex couples, we will accommodate you for X number of of months while you find other employment. They can damn well choose to stay home to protest-they don’t get to choose to do _parts_ of their job and still receive their _whole_ paycheck. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2015, 2:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/supreme-court-declines-to-hear-same-sex-marriage-cases-plus-further-developments-ed/700544/784 "2015-06-30T14:22:46Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > We won this battle, **RNALTB** , and we can choose to be gracious winners or not. I choose the former. That is all. You choose to support continuing to frustrate the law and continuing to keep gays in a second-class status. That is not gracious, or even winning. These officials took oaths to uphold the law. If they cannot uphold those oaths, then they need to be replaced by others who can. It isn’t complicated. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2015, 2:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/supreme-court-declines-to-hear-same-sex-marriage-cases-plus-further-developments-ed/700544/785 "2015-06-30T14:23:28Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > They can damn well choose to stay home to protest-they don’t get to choose to do _parts_ of their job and still receive their _whole_ paycheck. Great. That’s your opinion, and I’m not going to say you’re wrong. My opinion differs for reasons I’ve already stated. ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2015, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/supreme-court-declines-to-hear-same-sex-marriage-cases-plus-further-developments-ed/700544/786 "2015-06-30T14:24:36Z")
I’m going to add a bit here… when you’re in a public facing job, whether it’s a gov’t official, retail store owner, whatever, there is a phrase you just don’t get to use. “I don’t serve your kind.” You don’t get to say it to anyone, ever. If you want that phrase to be part of your repertoire, get a new job, one where you’re not dealing with the public. ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2015, 2:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/supreme-court-declines-to-hear-same-sex-marriage-cases-plus-further-developments-ed/700544/787 "2015-06-30T14:28:33Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > We won this battle, **RNALTB** , and we can choose to be gracious winners or not. I choose the former. That is all. Yeah, what a bunch of needy whiners those gays are. Why can’t they be more like that paragon of quiet grace, John Mace. Certainly if John Mace won a court case against the government and a county clerk put him off with a “I don’t feel like it”, John Mace would smile and say, “No problem. I’ll check back in a month to see if you’ve come to terms with my constitutional rights.” ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2015, 2:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/supreme-court-declines-to-hear-same-sex-marriage-cases-plus-further-developments-ed/700544/788 "2015-06-30T14:28:58Z")
> [@Cheesesteak](#): > > I’m going to add a bit here… when you’re in a public facing job, whether it’s a gov’t official, retail store owner, whatever, there is a phrase you just don’t get to use. > > “I don’t serve your kind.” > > You don’t get to say it to anyone, ever. If you want that phrase to be part of your repertoire, get a new job, one where you’re not dealing with the public. Sure you do, if it’s a “kind” that hasn’t received public acceptance. In fact, it’s still legal to “not serve” gays in some states. And if you are a county clerk in a state that doesn’t allow cousins to marry, you get say it to any two cousins who come in for a marriage license. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2015, 2:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/supreme-court-declines-to-hear-same-sex-marriage-cases-plus-further-developments-ed/700544/789 "2015-06-30T14:34:48Z")
> [@Inner\_Stickler](#): > > Yeah, what a bunch of needy whiners those gays are. Why can’t they be more like that paragon of quiet grace, John Mace. Certainly if John Mace won a court case against the government and a county clerk put him off with a “I don’t feel like it”, John Mace would smile and say, “No problem. I’ll check back in a month to see if you’ve come to terms with my constitutional rights.” I never said anyone was a needy whiner. I specifically said I wouldn’t say someone was wrong if they disagreed with me. And yes, I hope I would act that way if I was affected. But I would stipulate further that the county should make sure someone can issue licenses in the interim. If not a clerk, then whoever is the highest elected official gets to fill in during the adjustment period. Gives them incentive to move the process along. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2015, 2:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/supreme-court-declines-to-hear-same-sex-marriage-cases-plus-further-developments-ed/700544/790 "2015-06-30T14:46:12Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Great. That’s your opinion, and I’m not going to say you’re wrong. My opinion differs for reasons I’ve already stated. The war may be over, but every concession, every delay of this sort tells others that it’s ok to do the same-it actually adds fuel to the fire of hate, and it tells the Republicans that are feeding on that hate that they are on the right path. It tells them that there is still room to push back, to tell those that hate, “See! They are weak and we can still take it back! Elect me and we can still Save America!!”, and whether or not they can roll back what has just been won, do _not_ doubt they can, and will, make that win as difficult to maintain as is humanly possible if we let them. You say all that clerk needs is a little time to adjust to follow the law of the land? The political leaders she/he follows are in all likelihood right now telling that person that they have the right to disobey the SCOTUS both morally and maybe even legally. Giving these clerks a few days free rein isn’t going to make things better-it’s going to make things worse, imho. ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2015, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/supreme-court-declines-to-hear-same-sex-marriage-cases-plus-further-developments-ed/700544/791 "2015-06-30T14:48:41Z")
Dunno if it has been posted here already (and I apologize if it has), but this reaction is too absurd not to share: Ted Cruz: “Today is some of the darkest 24 hours in our nation’s history”. > **[ObamaCare | Mediaite](https://www.mediaite.com/tag/obamacare/)** > > ObamaCare is the nickname for the Affordable Care Act, or the ACA. It was signed into law on March 23, 2010. It decreased the uninsured population in the United States by 1/2, mainly because of the expansion of Medicaid. Throughout its conception, it... Really? Gays get to marry, and that’s on par with Pearl Harbor and 9/11? ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2015, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/supreme-court-declines-to-hear-same-sex-marriage-cases-plus-further-developments-ed/700544/792 "2015-06-30T14:53:36Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Exactly. And if they couldn’t do that, they wouldn’t have applied for the job. > > We won this battle, **RNALTB** , and we can choose to be gracious winners or not. I choose the former. That is all. This is not a game of checkers, or the Superbowl or a marital dispute about where to spend Thanksgiving this year. It’s a matter of Constitutional rights and dignity. There’s no graciousness in turning away from people who continue to put up barriers. When these clerks took their job, they knew exactly what the rules were: to serve the governmental function necessary to issue licenses pursuant to the law. If they have decided they can no longer do that, they need to quit their job now. ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2015, 2:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/supreme-court-declines-to-hear-same-sex-marriage-cases-plus-further-developments-ed/700544/793 "2015-06-30T14:55:05Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Sure you do, if it’s a “kind” that hasn’t received public acceptance. In fact, it’s still legal to “not serve” gays in some states. But I don’t have to be civil about it, I don’t have to accommodate it, or be gracious about it. They get to have whatever protection the law provides them, and that’s it. They dont’ get respect or understanding, or anything else from me. And now that it’s part of their job to serve gays, I really don’t owe them shit. Do your job, or quit. > [@](#): > > And if you are a county clerk in a state that doesn’t allow cousins to marry, you get say it to any two cousins who come in for a marriage license. Or, you can treat people with respect and dignity. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2015, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/supreme-court-declines-to-hear-same-sex-marriage-cases-plus-further-developments-ed/700544/794 "2015-06-30T14:58:46Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > The war may be over Only the marriage part of it. That was a deciding battle, not the war, but battles over the myriad other issues of anti-gay discrimination are still ahead in many states. > [@](#): > > every concession, every delay of this sort tells others that it’s ok to do the same-it actually adds fuel to the fire of hate … Exactly. Well put. > [@](#): > > You say all that clerk needs is a little time to adjust to follow the law of the land? They’ve all had plenty of time already to consider their options. Refusing to obey their oaths should not be one. ---
**Author:** ![Bridget\_Burke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7cd45c/32.png) [@Bridget\_Burke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bridget_Burke)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2015, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/supreme-court-declines-to-hear-same-sex-marriage-cases-plus-further-developments-ed/700544/795 "2015-06-30T15:02:35Z")
> [@Malthus](#): > > Dunno if it has been posted here already (and I apologize if it has), but this reaction is too absurd not to share: Ted Cruz: “Today is some of the darkest 24 hours in our nation’s history”. > > [ObamaCare | Mediaite](http://www.mediaite.com/online/ted-cruz-today-is-some-of-the-darkest-24-hours-in-our-nations-history/) > > Really? Gays get to marry, and that’s on par with Pearl Harbor and 9/11? I think it’s been posted somewhere at SDMB but it’s worth repeating. However, the atrocity of allowing Obamacare to continue is part of the hideous disaster that Cruz is decrying! ---
**Author:** ![oft\_wears\_hats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/7993a0/32.png) [@oft\_wears\_hats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/oft_wears_hats)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2015, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/supreme-court-declines-to-hear-same-sex-marriage-cases-plus-further-developments-ed/700544/796 "2015-06-30T15:03:18Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > The war may be over, but every concession, every delay of this sort tells others that it’s ok to do the same-it actually adds fuel to the fire of hate, and it tells the Republicans that are feeding on that hate that they are on the right path. It tells them that there is still room to push back, to tell those that hate, “See! They are weak and we can still take it back! Elect me and we can still Save America!!”, and whether or not they can roll back what has just been won, do _not_ doubt they can, and will, make that win as difficult to maintain as is humanly possible if we let them. You say all that clerk needs is a little time to adjust to follow the law of the land? The political leaders she/he follows are in all likelihood right now telling that person that they have the right to disobey the SCOTUS both morally and maybe even legally. Giving these clerks a few days free rein isn’t going to make things better-it’s going to make things worse, imho. Absolutely. On its face, I understand the desire to be the bigger people, to be gracious winners. However, these people are being anything but gracious losers. They’re holding their breaths and stamping their feet like children having a temper tantrum. Validating that behavior in any way is a very bad idea. The court has spoken, if you don’t like it, suck it up and move on because that’s what adults do when things don’t go their way. If you’re a public servant, do your damn job or get fired. There is really no acceptable middle ground here. And anyway, it’s totally possible to be a gracious winner while also not accommodating people who want to dig in their heels and ignore the court decision. Just like it’s possible to discharge your sworn duty to the public while also not personally endorsing gay marriage. ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2015, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/supreme-court-declines-to-hear-same-sex-marriage-cases-plus-further-developments-ed/700544/797 "2015-06-30T15:09:45Z")
> [@Bridget\_Burke](#): > > I think it’s been posted somewhere at SDMB but it’s worth repeating. However, the atrocity of allowing Obamacare to continue is part of the hideous disaster that Cruz is decrying! Every time a married gay goes to the doctor, American freedom dies a little? 😃 ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2015, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/supreme-court-declines-to-hear-same-sex-marriage-cases-plus-further-developments-ed/700544/798 "2015-06-30T15:15:34Z")
And another fairy gets its wings? ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2015, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/supreme-court-declines-to-hear-same-sex-marriage-cases-plus-further-developments-ed/700544/799 "2015-06-30T15:28:18Z")
I can’t think of a time when we should delay enacting something because someone won’t comply. Sure, when they can’t comply immediately, we put in delays to allow them time to get up to speed. But when they just don’t want to? And the idea that such a rule would actually make things work better is nonsense. First, it would keep people in jobs where they got to spew their idiocy and hatred. Second, they wouldn’t be saying “Oh, I won’t serve gays but the government is nice enough, and they were nice enough winners, to let me keep my job while I look for something else.” Instead, it would be “Those fascist faggots are destroying America and forcing me out of my job!” ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2015, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/supreme-court-declines-to-hear-same-sex-marriage-cases-plus-further-developments-ed/700544/800 "2015-06-30T15:45:03Z")
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > This is not a game of checkers, or the Superbowl or a marital dispute about where to spend Thanksgiving this year. And graciousness is not confined to those events. We expect our political leaders to be gracious after elections-- neither gloating over a win nor bad-mouthing after a loss. > [@](#): > > It’s a matter of Constitutional rights and dignity. There’s no graciousness in turning away from people who continue to put up barriers. > > When these clerks took their job, they knew exactly what the rules were: to serve the governmental function necessary to issue licenses pursuant to the law. If they have decided they can no longer do that, they need to quit their job now. I’m going to bookmark this page since so many folks seem to think it’s no big deal for another person to have to look for another job. That’s not usually the response one gets around here when that topic comes up. > [@oft wears hats](#): > > Absolutely. On its face, I understand the desire to be the bigger people, to be gracious winners. However, these people are being anything but gracious losers. The tough part about being gracious as being so\* even when the other side does not.\* > [@jsgoddess](#): > > And the idea that such a rule would actually make things work better is nonsense. First, it would keep people in jobs where they got to spew their idiocy and hatred. I’d have no problem with firing someone for spewing hatred on their job, so no, it wouldn’t keep those people in those jobs. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/supreme-court-declines-to-hear-same-sex-marriage-cases-plus-further-developments-ed/700544.md?page=39) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/supreme-court-declines-to-hear-same-sex-marriage-cases-plus-further-developments-ed/700544.md?page=41)