# Supreme Court \[declines to hear\] same sex marriage cases.\[plus further developments (Ed.)\] **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 6, 2014, 1:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/supreme-court-declines-to-hear-same-sex-marriage-cases-plus-further-developments-ed/700544 "2014-10-06T13:50:23Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 41
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2015, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/supreme-court-declines-to-hear-same-sex-marriage-cases-plus-further-developments-ed/700544/801 "2015-06-30T15:48:39Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > And graciousness is not confined to those events. We expect our political leaders to be gracious after elections-- neither gloating over a win nor bad-mouthing after a loss. > I’m going to bookmark this page since so many folks seem to think it’s no big deal for another person to have to look for another job. That’s not usually the response one gets around here when that topic comes up. If it’s that hard to find another job, _consider that very fact when you decide not to do your job in the first place._ ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2015, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/supreme-court-declines-to-hear-same-sex-marriage-cases-plus-further-developments-ed/700544/802 "2015-06-30T15:51:16Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > I’m going to bookmark this page since so many folks seem to think it’s no big deal for another person to have to look for another job. That’s not usually the response one gets around here when that topic comes up. It’s quite hard to look for a job. And it’s a big deal. But that does not meant that people who choose not to do a job should continue to be paid. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2015, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/supreme-court-declines-to-hear-same-sex-marriage-cases-plus-further-developments-ed/700544/803 "2015-06-30T15:56:26Z")
BTW, what could be more hateful than defying the law to refuse service, **John Mace**? ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2015, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/supreme-court-declines-to-hear-same-sex-marriage-cases-plus-further-developments-ed/700544/804 "2015-06-30T15:58:37Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > BTW, what could be more hateful than defying the law to refuse service, **John Mace**? Killing someone. Was that a serious question? There are lots of things more hateful than that, on the hatefulness scale. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2015, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/supreme-court-declines-to-hear-same-sex-marriage-cases-plus-further-developments-ed/700544/805 "2015-06-30T16:05:51Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Killing someone. Was that a serious question? There are lots of things more hateful than that, on the hatefulness scale. But apparently being willing to defy the law to deny service to someone doesn’t tip the scale for you? It isn’t as if this was sprung on them all at once-this has been up in the air for a long time now. If they want to hate, they can do it on their own time, and on their own dime. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2015, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/supreme-court-declines-to-hear-same-sex-marriage-cases-plus-further-developments-ed/700544/806 "2015-06-30T16:07:04Z")
> [@jsgoddess](#): > > It’s quite hard to look for a job. And it’s a big deal. But that does not meant that people who choose not to do a job should continue to be paid. If you wanted to dock them X% of their pay during the process, I could understand. As long as X was more or less proportional to the number of licenses they won’t grant. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2015, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/supreme-court-declines-to-hear-same-sex-marriage-cases-plus-further-developments-ed/700544/807 "2015-06-30T16:10:53Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > And graciousness is not confined to those events. We expect our political leaders to be gracious after elections-- neither gloating over a win nor bad-mouthing after a loss. Graciousness is not achieved by acquiescing to conditions or demands after you have won and the terms are set; graciousness is not gloating or deriding your former opponent after you win. What you advocate is accepting further deprivation of rights, and that’s what the whole fuss was about in the first place, **John**. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2015, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/supreme-court-declines-to-hear-same-sex-marriage-cases-plus-further-developments-ed/700544/808 "2015-06-30T16:15:06Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > Graciousness is not achieved by acquiescing to conditions or demands after you have won and the terms are set; graciousness is not gloating or deriding your former opponent after you win. > > What you advocate is accepting further deprivation of rights, and that’s what the whole fuss was about in the first place, **John**. If you read all my posts on this subject, you’ll see that no one would be deprived of their rights. I specifically said that the county elected officials needed to assure that someone was available to issue licenses to same sex couples. ---
**Author:** ![rat\_avatar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rat_avatar/32/255_2.png) [@rat\_avatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rat_avatar)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2015, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/supreme-court-declines-to-hear-same-sex-marriage-cases-plus-further-developments-ed/700544/809 "2015-06-30T16:15:11Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > If you wanted to dock them X% of their pay during the process, I could understand. As long as X was more or less proportional to the number of licenses they won’t grant. What if they were denying to issue them to all christians, or to people with dark colored skin? Why is it ok for them to arbitrarily be cruel to X, just because they are bigoted against X? That flaunting of the law and using an official position to push their personal bigotry is the exact reason they should be fired. They are public servants not vindictive rulers, empowered by divinity. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2015, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/supreme-court-declines-to-hear-same-sex-marriage-cases-plus-further-developments-ed/700544/810 "2015-06-30T16:15:44Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > If you wanted to dock them X% of their pay during the process, I could understand. As long as X was more or less proportional to the number of licenses they won’t grant. What the fuck? Is that how it works when it comes to _deliberately refusing_ to do part of any other job, or is this a special concession for those that decide to discriminate against same-sex couples? ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2015, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/supreme-court-declines-to-hear-same-sex-marriage-cases-plus-further-developments-ed/700544/811 "2015-06-30T16:17:41Z")
> [@rat\_avatar](#): > > What if they were denying to issue them to all christians, or to people with dark colored skin? Already covered in post 779 > [@](#): > > Why is it ok for them to arbitrarily be cruel to X, just because they are bigoted against X? That flaunting of the law and using an official position to push their personal bigotry is the exact reason they should be fired. They are public servants not vindictive rulers, empowered by divinity. Flouting, not flaunting. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2015, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/supreme-court-declines-to-hear-same-sex-marriage-cases-plus-further-developments-ed/700544/812 "2015-06-30T16:17:45Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > If you read all my posts on this subject, you’ll see that no one would be deprived of their rights. I specifically said that the county elected officials needed to assure that someone was available to issue licenses to same sex couples. How, by hiring extra people on the taxpayer’s dime? No. ---
**Author:** ![rat\_avatar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rat_avatar/32/255_2.png) [@rat\_avatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rat_avatar)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2015, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/supreme-court-declines-to-hear-same-sex-marriage-cases-plus-further-developments-ed/700544/813 "2015-06-30T16:20:41Z")
> [@jsgoddess](#): > > I can’t think of a time when we should delay enacting something because someone won’t comply. Sure, when they can’t comply immediately, we put in delays to allow them time to get up to speed. But when they just don’t want to? > > And the idea that such a rule would actually make things work better is nonsense. First, it would keep people in jobs where they got to spew their idiocy and hatred. Second, they wouldn’t be saying “Oh, I won’t serve gays but the government is nice enough, and they were nice enough winners, to let me keep my job while I look for something else.” Instead, it would be “Those fascist faggots are destroying America and forcing me out of my job!” No, not covered in 799. Forcing them to do their job does not empower them to verbally spew bigotry from the job. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2015, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/supreme-court-declines-to-hear-same-sex-marriage-cases-plus-further-developments-ed/700544/814 "2015-06-30T16:20:51Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > How, by hiring extra people on the taxpayer’s dime? No. As a last resort, maybe. But I thought paying taxes was the price we paid to live in a civilized society. We are witness to one of the fastest social changes in our nation’s history. A few months accommodation to those we disagree with won’t kill us. It might actually make us stronger (or so I’ve heard). ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2015, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/supreme-court-declines-to-hear-same-sex-marriage-cases-plus-further-developments-ed/700544/815 "2015-06-30T16:21:24Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > If you wanted to dock them X% of their pay during the process, I could understand. As long as X was more or less proportional to the number of licenses they won’t grant. So people hired full time should be able to pick and choose a portion of time they’ll work? A portion of their job they selectively decide not to do? Nobody said getting another job was easy. Putting those words in my mouth was childish and disingenuous. However, it’s also true that hewing to your conscience is not always easy either. If your conscience dictates that you cannot do your job, you have a potentially tough choice to make. ---
**Author:** ![42fish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/4/b487fb/32.png) [@42fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/42fish)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2015, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/supreme-court-declines-to-hear-same-sex-marriage-cases-plus-further-developments-ed/700544/816 "2015-06-30T16:23:09Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > I’d have no problem with firing someone for spewing hatred on their job, so no, it wouldn’t keep those people in those jobs. So as long as the clerks are polite about ignoring the law, failing to do their jobs, and treating gays as second-class citizens, everything’s hunky-dory. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2015, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/supreme-court-declines-to-hear-same-sex-marriage-cases-plus-further-developments-ed/700544/817 "2015-06-30T16:23:12Z")
> [@rat\_avatar](#): > > No, not covered in 799. Really? Legalized marriage for Christians and people with dark colored skin just happened a few days ago? I don’t think so, but if you have a cite… > [@](#): > > Forcing them to do their job does not empower them to verbally spew bigotry from the job. That was covered in post 800. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2015, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/supreme-court-declines-to-hear-same-sex-marriage-cases-plus-further-developments-ed/700544/818 "2015-06-30T16:24:36Z")
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > So people hired full time should be able to pick and choose a portion of time they’ll work? A portion of their job they selectively decide not to do? > > Nobody said getting another job was easy. Putting those words in my mouth was childish and disingenuous. > > However, it’s also true that hewing to your conscience is not always easy either. If your conscience dictates that you cannot do your job, you have a potentially tough choice to make. I would hope that if I were in the position of an objecting clerk, I would be gracious enough to overcome my bias or quit my job. But we’re not all very gracious, are we? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2015, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/supreme-court-declines-to-hear-same-sex-marriage-cases-plus-further-developments-ed/700544/819 "2015-06-30T16:25:29Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > As a last resort, maybe. But I thought paying taxes was the price we paid to live in a civilized society. We are witness to one of the fastest social changes in our nation’s history. A few months accommodation to those we disagree with won’t kill us. It might actually make us stronger (or so I’ve heard). And I think I pointed out why such a position might very well make the other side stronger-it gives the bigots hope that they can carry on, and it fuels the fire of the politicians that feed off of those bigots. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2015, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/supreme-court-declines-to-hear-same-sex-marriage-cases-plus-further-developments-ed/700544/820 "2015-06-30T16:25:58Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > But apparently being willing to defy the law to deny service to someone doesn’t tip the scale for you? Yes, it does tip the scale. But you asked me if anything tipped the scale more, and so that is the question I answered. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/supreme-court-declines-to-hear-same-sex-marriage-cases-plus-further-developments-ed/700544.md?page=40) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/supreme-court-declines-to-hear-same-sex-marriage-cases-plus-further-developments-ed/700544.md?page=42)